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Paint looks good from the pictures, especially as it'll eventually be covered up, just completes things in that area. 

All looking good from here. 

Gareth

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Pete - DON'T give up with owning a TR - there are other cars out there - just put the word out on here and elsewhere and I'm sure something will come up Chin up  Cheers Rich

Or these people? http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/classicmini/engine-components/2k7440.html Roger

. Carrying on from TR4 -v- Tr4A engine, and my purchasing a 'spare'  < here >  ..so that I might get on and have an engine ready by the time the Chance is actually bought and shipped,  we h

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Nice work Pete 

Braver man than me on a cold snowy day just throwing another log on the fire I think you deserve to do the same with a glass of malt.

Andy

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Thank you Gareth and Andy, it was pretty cold to work outside yesterday, but pleased to take even a little step ..in the right direction.!

 

Today I painted the driver's side footwell, bulkhead and side panel ..again while access was easier for me to climb inside and invert myself. My being right-handed makes this footwell all the more awkward to twist around to . . .

P1400463s.JPG.396934e00443c632d160855b7b57a6d6.JPG

^ Painted to the same extent as the passenger side, again until I've dropped the gearbox back in and bashed its cover to shape.

And then back onto the gearbox . .

P1400466s.JPG.f66c81e6aa7f5c33ac7281862a2073a7.JPG    P1400467s.JPG.451490aa3f27f0205cbb26bd5fad7a2e.JPG

^ reassembly of the thrust bearing mechanism, this time with a liberal application of grease in its bearings, and also cross wire-locking of both the standard pin and dowel.

Next job then . . .

P1400472s.JPG.0ce61e760cc559aa2f8193c7d401dd97.JPG    P1400473s.JPG.8a2823ec010118748f16fcc9230d2ae6.JPG

^ reverse procedure of blocks to slide the gearbox on as when I removed it.  Lifted over the door step first, with the overdrive resting on a 3/4" thick block resting on the sill's upstanding flange.

P1400478s.JPG.e6ec02025695cbc7e80533474e3c0568.JPG     P1400482s.JPG.e896426f4af63f7b1653b2a864d40922.JPG

^ slid forward on the blocks as I lifted the back end around.  The aforementioned 3/4" block was then moved from the sill to now protect the edge of the floor.  From there the gearbox was slid forward onto the waiting board, still with jack and timber column support under it. 

Blocks are positioned over the propshaft's forward UJ.  Lifting the overdrive onto this bridge tilts the bellhousing under the car's heater. From there it is slid forward on the under-supported piece of plywood.  Without drama, with lumber not strained, and all fingers and paintwork intact.

P1400491s.JPG.444e7653b448d61383fd2d3757258c05.JPG

^ getting to this stage was fiddly, insomuch as the I made things difficult for myself.. because I had left the gearbox mount / bolt-on chassis cross-brace in place, and then also my extra-long (extended forward) T-shirt plate under the chassis prevented the propshaft from dropping lower (..had it just been an extra 1/4" lower that would have made life easier). Nevertheless with jiggling around the task was without any loss of composure. From door sill to thus far took 40 minutes on my own. 

But then getting the input-shaft spline to engage with clutch ..so that the gearbox would push forward, proved a time consuming business.  I was just about to give up for the evening ..to come back to it afresh in the morning, and gave things a last half-hearted shove, and lo n' behold it clicked forward. I cannot explain why it did so, as nothing had changed from my pushing n' shoving and twisting n' levering five minutes earlier.. but it kindly obliged and just slipped in. 

 

P1400495s.JPG.afd4bf49958ac50672601824482fdc0d.JPG

^ Gearbox back in  ..still with paintwork intact and flanges straight. The gearbox mount is now back in place and I've a few bolts in the engine, and so it's nearly done.  Tomorrow I hope to get things all bolted up, with the starter and clutch slave-cylinder back in place, and the gearbox top cover on again, so then I can move forward with reshaping its steel cover.

Progress., as well as footwell rust-protection and colour-correct prettiness !  Hopefully soon the gearbox will now be oil-leak free, and it'll all be brushed away under the carpet !  :D

Pete

 

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Nice work as ever Pete! Heres some paintwork of my own to report nearly there all the panels are done she should be back for Xmas I hope Santa has a low loader and some extra reindeer!

Andy 

IMG_1766.jpeg

IMG_1767.jpeg

IMG_1768.jpeg

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9 minutes ago, PodOne said:

Nice work as ever Pete! Heres some paintwork of my own to report nearly there all the panels are done she should be back for Xmas I hope Santa has a low loader and some extra reindeer!

Andy 

IMG_1766.jpeg

IMG_1767.jpeg

IMG_1768.jpeg

Why no paint inside and underneath?

Stuart.

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4 minutes ago, stuart said:

Why no paint inside and underneath?

Stuart.

Hi Stuart 

These areas are going to be painted with body colour tinted Raptor for added protection and hopefully help with sound deadening.

As you advised the Bonda Rust on the panels caused no issues.

Andy

Edited by PodOne
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2 hours ago, Bfg said:

But then getting the input-shaft spline to engage with clutch ..so that the gearbox would push forward, proved a time consuming business.  I was just about to give up for the evening ..to come back to it afresh in the morning, and gave things a last half-hearted shove, and lo n' behold it clicked forward. I cannot explain why it did so, as nothing had changed from my pushing n' shoving and twisting n' levering five minutes earlier.. but it kindly obliged and just slipped in. 

Pete

 

Strange how it always seems to go like that. You struggle, tilting the box this way & that, turn the rear flange in gear to try to align the splines, shove & heave till your pretty much knackered, then suddenly it goes in   WTF ? :P

Bob

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43 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Strange how it always seems to go like that. You struggle, tilting the box this way & that, turn the rear flange in gear to try to align the splines, shove & heave till your pretty much knackered, then suddenly it goes in   WTF ? :P

Bob

LoL.. 

on the one hand, I'm glad it's not just me then. :unsure:  But on the other hand I'm sorry, for the rest of you, that this sort of thing doesn't just happen to me :wacko:

Pete

p.s.  Bob, you forgot to mention buzzing around to the front of the car, climbing down to eye the jack, to raise or else lower the engine's height and tilt in 1/4" increments   ..how many times.!  :P

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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2 hours ago, Bfg said:

holes in the top of the sill and its front closing plate are for a drainage pipe from the ventilation's plenum chamber ?

The hole in top of the sill is for drainage and exits through another hole in the rear sill so is unseen and should be easier to keep clear.  

The ones in the end caps both front and rear as well as some in the rear of the sills and elsewhere will allow easy access for periodic wax injection. The sills have already been flooded with Bonda Rust which seeped between the seams prior to painting.These will all be capped with rubber grommets. Ventilation/drainage will be through some pre cut slots. in the bottoms of the sills. I've undertaken the same thing with Bonda Rust to the door bottoms, plenum chambers and between the inner/outer lower rear valence seam and also cut bigger slots each end of the door bottoms all in an effort to keep the tin worms at bay. Time will tell!

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9 hours ago, Bfg said:

LoL.. 

on the one hand, I'm glad it's not just me then. :unsure:  But on the other hand I'm sorry, for the rest of you, that this sort of thing doesn't just happen to me :wacko:

Pete

p.s.  Bob, you forgot to mention buzzing around to the front of the car, climbing down to eye the jack, to raise or else lower the engine's height and tilt in 1/4" increments   ..how many times.!  :P

 

 

Nah not just you. It’s especially annoying as this seems to be the pattern when fitting single handed without John M’s ( and others GB crane)

it should be in the workshop manual, “get the GB within 3/4” of the rear block struggle a bit swear some, then leave to rest. Preferably over night then push together”

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I had exactly the same problem pushing the last couple of inches of the gearbox into the engine. I’ve done it twice in the past couple of years. One time it took an entire day. Ended up getting totally fed up with the entire process.

Looking at your pictures I’ve just realized that the bottom of the gearbox tunnel fits differently to the 3A.
On the 3A the floor just bends upwards at  90 degrees, and if you rest the gearbox on it for just a second it’s bent down flat with the floor. Looks like the TR4 is more forgiving.

Charlie.

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:D:D

 

Yes I can see that a crane together with the trolley-jack might have  helped ..but I don't have one.  Furthermore, if I'm away touring far n' wide, and the clutch goes ..then I'll not have one there either.  

When lifting a very heavy diesel motor up to the cockpit height of a 40ft deep-keel boat (on the hard) and lowering it through the companionway hatch and down into the depth of that yacht's bilges.. we had no choice but to build scaffolding and to use a crane. But it took three of us to do the job and tbh there were a few moments where fingers were at high risk.  NB., any helper who is in the slightest gung-ho is a danger to others !

I similarly used to a block & tackle to lift the in-line engine & gearbox, of the Sunbeam motorcycles, into their frame. It saves pulling my back, but it is a very slow operation ..and however many rags were carefully taped around a restored frame there was always risk of the frame's paintwork getting chipped. More so than when I lifted the engine/gearbox in by hand and could feel even the lightest contact.

Many years ago I did use an engine hoist, to lift an engine out of a vehicle. My single most recollection of that was that the crane wouldn't roll steadily on rough concrete and the engine biffed a dent into the wheel-arch  ..oops ! :ph34r:

No, my limited experience with amateur set-ups of crane or block n' tackle equipment is that heavy sharply cornered things swinging around in a limited space causes damage, and so is best done by two persons ..who are used to working together ..at the slowest person's pace.!  As I really don't trust them (precariously dangling heavy weights nor enthusiast helpers), it's not something I care to be part of ..if it can be avoided.    In comparison, I feel, the configuration I used was not reckless. No., after having now done things this way ..supporting from underneath and just sliding the heavy thing on softwood timber blocks, at my own pace, with minimal lifting of just one end around at a time, and occasionally using a timber lever so as to keep fingers out of harms way - I would confidently do the same again, even if I had a crane and enthusiastic helper available. 

I've heard of a pointy project in Egypt that might use my help ! :P

- - -

The issue I faced in realigning this spline was that I could not lower  the rear end of the gearbox sufficiently, and a crane would only have helped with that.. because the engine would be supported and adjusted independently of gearbox. . .    When I removed the gearbox ; the timber beam under the sump and the 3/4" plywood board were not screwed together ..and so, when lifting under the back of the engine, the plywood board tilted down at the back - and the spline engagement angle was correct to easily slide apart.  Under that board was my screwed-together column of wooden blocks on a wide plywood base, so it couldn't possibly go anywhere ..but still, I responded to suggestions that my configuration was unsafe. And while the gearbox was out - I screwed the plywood board to that beam. 

Subsequently during refit - the board couldn't tilt down at the back.  Realising this and having the gearbox in place (so unable to release those screws).. I had to support the forward end of that board, and then drop the trolley-jack ..so as to insert a piece of wood inbetween the beam and the rear end of the sump.  This, when jacked back up again, tilted the rear of the engine up ..just those few degrees more.  I then had to re-pack under the bell-housing to bring the front of the gearbox up again - so the spline lined up at the right height and at the right angle. 

In retrospect, had I left things alone (..if things were as they were when I removed the gearbox), or else I had just put a couple of screws loosely through the board into the very end of the beam (..so that the board may still have tilted) then I believe synchronising the input shaft's spline into the clutch would have been very much quicker. 

I've learnt from this experience, and whereas before I was intimidated by the size and heaviness of these car parts, I now have the confidence that I could do it safely again, more quickly, even when away from home. 

Please Note  again.. I am not suggesting that others should do things this way, I'm just reporting on what worked for me.  

Pete.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Charlie D said:

Looking at your pictures I’ve just realized that the bottom of the gearbox tunnel fits differently to the 3A.
On the 3A the floor just bends upwards at  90 degrees, and if you rest the gearbox on it for just a second it’s bent down flat with the floor. Looks like the TR4 is more forgiving.

Charlie.

That's interesting.. does that mean its fastening is through the floor and not through the raised lip ?  ..you got a piccie ?

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On 11/26/2021 at 7:58 PM, Bfg said:

Thank you Gentlemen for your continued support and good advice. 

I've been otherwise busy these past couple of days, but this afternoon I refitted the front seal cover.  As it was., I had already tapped and thread-inserted two of the four fastening holes with 3/8" UNC threads, while the other two remain as 5/16" UNC. . . . . .

P1400420s.JPG.a12831e396d071e4fa64fa9e5b69c97e.JPG    P1400426s.JPG.91d46b37c42fb46924e08f24dc3d78b9.JPG

^ of course, due care was needed to ensure that no coil wire end, nor bits of swarf, dropped into the input-shaft bearing or gear case.  And, as before, the thread-inserts were Loctited in place and fitted just a little below the gasket face. Thankfully the length, the back-end of those through to the gear-case, were excellent. They are, I feel, now noticeably stronger than the original tapped threads.

Today I started off with a little shopping, to Suffolk Fasteners, Ipswich because I needed just two 3/8" UNC bolts and a couple of copper washers to fit those.  Because I wanted a plain-shanked bolts for these ..I bought longer and cut them to length.  I'd also cleaned things up, made a new gasket, and annealed the two copper washers I'll reuse. . .

P1400430s.JPG.5ffb3a0914f93605c2b5eb3f26b90f43.JPG   P1400428s.JPG.6931904ea5e63a84300777acdbb2c6c3.JPG

P1400433s.JPG.98a8dd142978edecd5e39c666bbf2242.JPG

^ Parts all but ready. The inside of the cover's tube was water-proof greased to prevent surface rust.  And the seal was given a liberal coating of synthetic lubricant containing Teflon.   I used Wellseal on one side of the gasket (..which is first fitted around the bearing's retaining circlip) and a smear of grease on the other face.

P1400435s.JPG.1b805f7b06f8a5d202b0a6732620ae6a.JPG

^ another little minute job - done. 

Hopefully tomorrow I get a chance to refit the thrust-bearing assembly and perhaps drop the gearbox back into the car.

Pete.

 

 

I assume you didn’t get around to changing the cover seal, which might be just as well bearing in mind the quality of some of them available!

Ive now obtained a new seal from Moss, but look at the difference between the Rimmer part and the Moss part. Same part number, NO comparison!

Kevin

266A4AC4-A19F-4389-A2B1-64A087EA866E.jpeg

4FA9DC60-91DD-4AC2-AC31-2E67126131FD.jpeg

Edited by boxofbits
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11 hours ago, PodOne said:

The hole in top of the sill is for drainage and exits through another hole in the rear sill so is unseen and should be easier to keep clear.  

The ones in the end caps both front and rear as well as some in the rear of the sills and elsewhere will allow easy access for periodic wax injection. The sills have already been flooded with Bonda Rust which seeped between the seams prior to painting.These will all be capped with rubber grommets. Ventilation/drainage will be through some pre cut slots. in the bottoms of the sills. I've undertaken the same thing with Bonda Rust to the door bottoms, plenum chambers and between the inner/outer lower rear valence seam and also cut bigger slots each end of the door bottoms all in an effort to keep the tin worms at bay. Time will tell!

Thanks that's informative.  I like the holes for wax injection but I'm surprised they are needed.  I guess the TR6 sills are different to the TR4A because mine has a row of holes open to the inside the car ..

P1400443ss.JPG.cfd8f67cb24e15bac953f0cd862d34ed.JPG

^ although normally carpeted over, my car's inner sills each have five such slotted holes in their top.   

.. Unless of course they are ashtrays :ph34r:

.  .  .  " you simply buy a new car when the ashtrays are full Sir ! " 

:D

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Bfg said:

Thanks that's informative.  I like the holes for wax injection but I'm surprised they are needed.  I guess the TR6 sills are different to the TR4A because mine has a row of holes open to the inside the car ..

P1400443ss.JPG.cfd8f67cb24e15bac953f0cd862d34ed.JPG

^ although normally carpeted over, my car's inner sills each have five such slotted holes in their top.   

.. Unless of course they are ashtrays :ph34r:

.  .  .  " you simply buy a new car when the ashtrays are full Sir ! " 

:D

 

 

Thats actually TR5/6 inner sills as 4/4a didnt have the holes in the top.

Stuart.

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21 minutes ago, boxofbits said:

I assume you didn’t get around to changing the cover seal, which might be just as well bearing in mind the quality of some of them available!

Ive now obtained a new seal from Moss, but look at the difference between the Rimmer part and the Moss part. Same part number, NO comparison!

Kevin

266A4AC4-A19F-4389-A2B1-64A087EA866E.jpeg

4FA9DC60-91DD-4AC2-AC31-2E67126131FD.jpeg

The larger one being a double lip seal which is the ones I always recommend.

Stuart.

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26 minutes ago, boxofbits said:

I assume you didn’t get around to changing the cover seal, which might be just as well bearing in mind the quality of some of them available!

Ive now obtained a new seal from Moss, but look at the difference between the Rimmer part and the Moss part. Same part number, NO comparison!

Kevin

4FA9DC60-91DD-4AC2-AC31-2E67126131FD.jpeg

No Kevin,  I did however very carefully look and feel for any damage to the seal's lips and they were soft and seemingly without having been cut.  So, I opted not to change it.  I did of course liberally lubricate it (synthetic 'Unigel - turbo-Gel' with Teflon) and taped cellophane around the gearbox spline before refitting.  From what I might gather they were not the shiny black plastic of the one you got from Rimmers.  As I understand it they are a standard 1.250 - 2.000 - 0.500" double lip seal available from any decent bearing & seal retailer.  Unless I'm ordering other parts I see no need to use classic car specialist for this sort of thing.

Pete 

p.s.  I do wish we had a Thank you / Like / thumbs-up  to click onto.  All of these comments and advice are welcome and very much appreciated. Thanks again to Stuart who posted his recommendation as I was writing..

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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40 minutes ago, Bfg said:

That's interesting.. does that mean its fastening is through the floor and not through the raised lip ?  ..you got a piccie ?

The rearmost part is through the raised lip, and I think the front part is as well. I can't really tell because of the layers of gaffer tape I covered the joint with.

Just standard captive nuts used to fix it.

I don't have  photo, but I bet Bob has.

 

About to send a PM on a totally different matter.

Charlie.

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The TR3 cover is bolted down to the floor except for the rearmost couple of bolts which go inwards.

floor.thumb.JPG.f308f4bf98d5a7d45ac3033569036e03.JPG  click on to enlarge

Alignment of the box to engine is helped by fitting extra long studs (or bolts) to the top of the engine :

IMG-20201220-WA0035.thumb.jpeg.59902f941eef6b4d1daa268fbe6ce0bd.jpeg  1796697046_Longboltshelp.thumb.jpg.7262368c694bad80d86722a3cbbf4098.jpg  

Bob.

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Just reinstalled the gearbox today after having it rebuilt by Pete Cox.

years ago I’m sure it was Neil (NTC ) who recommended using a suitable sized piece of wood jammed between the firewall and block to keep the engine in palace, and then using a piece of wood with a sandbag on top of the trolley Jack and underneath the gearbox to aid removal and installation.

decided to try this and it went back first time - couldn’t believe it!!!!

the gearbox mounts for the J type that bolt onto the chassis rails were a different matter though- absolute nightmare that took us a couple of hours as hardly any room.

Nigel

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