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9 minutes ago, Lebro said:

The TR3 cover is bolted down to the floor except for the rearmost couple of bolts which go inwards.

floor.thumb.JPG.f308f4bf98d5a7d45ac3033569036e03.JPG  click on to enlarge

Alignment of the box to engine is helped by fitting extra long studs (or bolts) to the top of the engine :

IMG-20201220-WA0035.thumb.jpeg.59902f941eef6b4d1daa268fbe6ce0bd.jpeg  1796697046_Longboltshelp.thumb.jpg.7262368c694bad80d86722a3cbbf4098.jpg  

Bob.

Bob ( Pete sorry for slight thread drift) - when fitting my gearbox to my TR4 ( and presumably the same with a 4A and later cars), to get the clutch operating arm to get into the space made for it in the floor next to the bulkhead, the gearbox had to rotated clockwise so the arm cleared the floor, and only when the gearbox was engaged forwards sufficiently far, was there enough room to then rotate it back anticlockwise and for the clutch arm to fit in the space - with your stud arrangement, how can this work or is there more space in a TR3? Obviously it will work nicely for fitting the gearbox to the engine on a bench of floor but I can't see how it can work in the car?

cheers Rich

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Pete - DON'T give up with owning a TR - there are other cars out there - just put the word out on here and elsewhere and I'm sure something will come up Chin up  Cheers Rich

Or these people? http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/classicmini/engine-components/2k7440.html Roger

. Carrying on from TR4 -v- Tr4A engine, and my purchasing a 'spare'  < here >  ..so that I might get on and have an engine ready by the time the Chance is actually bought and shipped,  we h

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I used the "Long stud" method to keep the box and engine in line, but only after I'd fitted the box part way into the engine. (3A)

Like you I had to twist the box to get the clutch arm through the floor.

It was easier using the long studs, but still not perfect.

Charlie.

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TR6 I know but I used a wood dowel and PVA tape to centralise the driver plate to the spigot and the box slid home first attempt. Perhaps lucky as I was expecting a bit of a fight.

Andy 

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3 hours ago, Charlie D said:

I used the "Long stud" method to keep the box and engine in line, but only after I'd fitted the box part way into the engine. (3A)

Like you I had to twist the box to get the clutch arm through the floor.

It was easier using the long studs, but still not perfect.

Charlie.

Yep, same would apply to me, In the photo above I was assembling the box to the engine out of the car.  I have used the same idea in a Triumph Herald, & a Massey Ferguson 35 tractor recently, & aligning the two using longer studs helps a great deal, as the only thing you have to the get right is the gap between engine & box top & bottom.

Bob

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17 hours ago, Charlie D said:

I had exactly the same problem pushing the last couple of inches of the gearbox into the engine. I’ve done it twice in the past couple of years. One time it took an entire day. Ended up getting totally fed up with the entire process.

Looking at your pictures I’ve just realized that the bottom of the gearbox tunnel fits differently to the 3A.
On the 3A the floor just bends upwards at  90 degrees, and if you rest the gearbox on it for just a second it’s bent down flat with the floor. Looks like the TR4 is more forgiving.

Charlie.

 

13 hours ago, Lebro said:

The TR3 cover is bolted down to the floor except for the rearmost couple of bolts which go inwards.

floor.thumb.JPG.f308f4bf98d5a7d45ac3033569036e03.JPG  click on to enlarge

Bob.

Thank you both,  The cover sitting down onto the floor (rather on the edge-of-floor-rim) accounts for why this one initially appeared to be 8 - 10mm higher than the TR4's bulkhead flange.  I guess the five holes aligning, to bolt it down around the front, comes down to the likelihood that the prototype TR4's g/box cover was a modified TR3 one ..and I'm just retracing those same development steps.

I wonder if the early TR4's had steel covers ?  

P1400497s.jpg.702bee3e224632a04423c4ce3fc89134.jpg

^ from Autocar - Sept 1st 1961  ..although I suspect "welded to the floor" was an error. 

cheers, Pete     

 

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My brother and I have fitted many gearboxes over the years. They seem to be easier to do if the engine is out of the car. One tip that may help. We have a spare first motion shalt that we use to align the clutch. Any minor misalignment can be the cause of hours of struggle. Even with a first motion shaft. We align the clutch and then roll the shaft round once inserted to make sure it is both free and has the same play all the way round. This is even more important when using a plastic tool or similar to align. Any microscopic misalignment seems to cause grief. Don’t just hang the clutch plate on the tool and bolt up. Make sure it is properly centralised. 
Hope this maybe of help. 
Regards

Keith

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A big +1 for this

 "We have a spare first motion shalt that we use to align the clutch. Any minor misalignment can be the cause of hours of struggle. Even with a first motion shaft."

I would go as far to say it's essential if you want to retain your sanity.

Mick Richards 

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+1 from me too,  I made a steel centralising tool which is a close fit as I did not have a spare shaft.

Best tip is to get an even gap between engine & bell housing all the way round.

Bob

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Moss will sell you a clutch alignment tool for about a fiver. Its only plastic but works just fine. Well worth it for the hassle saved. 

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I have also used a spare shaft to align the clutch plate, but maybe not taken enough care as I had problems both times I had to replace the box.

It seemed to go into the clutch plate OK (I could tell by not being able to turn the rear flange when in gear.) My problem seemed to be getting the very end into the bearing inside the flywheel. I actually think , if I have to do it again, I might grind a better taper (not too much) on the end of the gearbox shaft.

But is that a No-No ?

Charlie.

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4 minutes ago, Charlie D said:

I have also used a spare shaft to align the clutch plate, but maybe not taken enough care as I had problems both times I had to replace the box.

It seemed to go into the clutch plate OK (I could tell by not being able to turn the rear flange when in gear.) My problem seemed to be getting the very end into the bearing inside the flywheel. I actually think , if I have to do it again, I might grind a better taper (not too much) on the end of the gearbox shaft.

But is that a No-No ?

Charlie.

No because thats the whole point of the thrust bearing which is usually what your hitting, there is a lead on the shaft to cope, It just needs careful alignment.

Stuart.

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Just now, stuart said:

No because thats the whole point of the thrust bearing which is usually what your hitting, there is a lead on the shaft to cope, It just needs careful alignment.

Stuart.

Indeed and yes about the seal I remember and to fix it we did it under 3 hours trim out seats etc and back Roy did apologise that he had used it 

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Interesting stuff. Clutch alignment was not an issue when I fitted that, back in March, using a plastic centering tool.  I thought the tool was expensive considering how rarely I'd use it, even back in the mid 90's I seem to recall it cost me a fiver, but having used it twice now - I guess its paid for itself. ;)

- - -

My tasks since putting the gearbox back in, has of course been to bolt it up, fit the gearbox mount, the gearbox rear vibration damper, and reconnect the drive shaft, to refit the top cover (after having filled the gearbox with fresh oil) and to refit the clutch slave cylinder.   Bolting the bellhousing up took a little longer than expected as most of the bolts were a little short and I had to do some finding.  The bellhousing's underside dust plate (a home made item) and slave cylinder had a weird assortment of bolts and wrong sized washers. I guess it's not really that important but down under I reverted back to UNF thread sizes with nylocs rather than its assortment of BSF's and something else.  These things all take time.!

P1400498s.JPG.fd869219e9c69e203d1675ef93fc3348.JPG

^ I was doubtful about the slave cylinder push-rod though, so I thought I'd ask you if this (once its battered forks are straightened) is correct with the square end on a pivot.  It's not the same as shown in the parts book, but that tends to focus on the TR4 and perhaps this odd end was used on the 4A ?  Btw., it works fine.

Oh yes, I also cleaned up the starter motor has which was pretty dusty and a little oily. .

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^ I only mention this as an advisory to other owners with a high-torque starter, as part of its cable insulation appears to be silicon, but the cover over the terminal is rubber. . .

P1400517s.JPG.8fdc9c2f76fc6ed2e937677c78bd3739.JPG

^ And that literally crumbled in my fingers.  When fitted, this faces the engine block, so it's generally hidden from under-bonnet view.   Beyond being salvaged., I cobbled together a cover in neoprene which I secured with a cable tie.  I guess radiant heat from the exhaust down-pipes baked the rubber.  Putting insulation on those pipe has move up my job list, as this heat damage probably hasn't done much for the starter motor or its gearbox lubrication either.  I'll come back to checking and re-lubricating that anon. 

In the meantime, I wanted to address the wiring that was loosely dangling over the gearbox, this of course being for the overdrive. 

P1400189s.jpg.93ee3bd32efd3f3c0b75e26ada3763d5.jpg    P1400533s.JPG.5d6f5f20e9462d8c7296b3c0fdae881c.JPG

^ This is as it was, after the chassis change ..save my having taped over the solenoid's wiring connection and have better secured it with a cable tie to the switch. I've now (2nd photo) cut the wires to an appropriate length, replaced the bullet connection which was dangling away from its insulation (all new connections are soldered on), extended the outer protective sleeve, and secured the run of the cables with a clip from the top cover bolt ..which is no longer a bolt because I made a stud to go into that threaded hole ..for the earth lead.   The wires will no longer go via grommet through the gearbox cover. Instead I drilled a new hole through the bulkhead just below where the throttle linkage comes out.  That'll of course have a grommet.

You'll note in the first of these photos the dangles of wire alongside the heater duct (in the driver's footwell). Those are the other end of the overdrive's wiring, from the ammeter and ignition switch ..to/from its relay.

P1400535s.jpg.0e7393598c8f1e57f3186d90dbf5f5e4.jpg        P1400542s.JPG.5bcf7c9058c7fbeeac75559a35086f7b.JPG

^ those same wires ..rudely exposed :o   And then (2nd photo) the wires from the ammeter and ignition switch to the relay.  Bottom is the bit I'm reusing, that above is what I've cut out. In retrospect, having now refitted it, I would have made the 'reused' bit some 2" shorter.  So literally, these wires are twice as long as they needed to be.  Btw., left or right hand drive makes little difference, so I'm wondering if this overdrive's sub-loom was a universal item or came from another model of Triumph ? 

While doing this I had the ammeter out and cleaned each connection and the bulb fitting, checked them for tightness, and liberally applied Vaseline before refitting. Likewise for each wiring connection I've touched.  Again it takes quite a bit of time but I plan to go through every connection on the car to do the same. Better to do it now than to try and find a poor connection one night when it's peeing with rain.

While under the dashboard, I took the opportunity to correct (..or at least improve) the dashboard / steering column stay.  This is something Richard (RAHTR4) very kindly pointed out and advised me on, back in April.  Thank you Richard, I knew I'd get around to doing it sometime.  Funny how one or two other things sort of got in the way. -_-

P1400510s.jpg.f5b4f743970c2f5f29d0312cca7dc634.jpg   P1400544s.JPG.707e5c561a32bb0e8125503bc42f0a11.JPG

^ Richard had spotted, in a previous photo, that the stay (red Arrow) should be bolted via the bolt through the aluminium steering column clamp, and not to back of the dashboard, and at its bulkhead end.. should go the nut on the bracket (red circle).  Instead it went to an home-positioned bolt, with half its head cut off, through the corner of the bulkhead panel, just under the clutch master cylinder. . .

He speculates that the bracket is from a LHD car.  The one Katie  (RHD cars) ought to have is not bent 90-degrees at the end and is shorter.  For me working outside in 2 to 3 degrees temperatures this afternoon, it was quicker and easier to straighten the bracket's end ..but to keep it the same length. Oddly though, I did have to re-drill both ends from 1/4" to 5/16".    Now (below) the one end is (just above the red arrow) ) bolted to the aluminium steering-column clamp, and I've taken the other end to the bolt (blue circle) at the rear end of the pedal-assembly pressing on the bulkhead, which I know to be strong. . .    

P1400550as.jpg.552cc1857a3a019b6296bcdd6ae444ea.jpg

That's all for tonight.  Slow but steady(ish) progress.

Now that I've routed the wiring to overdrive I can get back to metal-bashing the gearbox cover again.

Bidding you a good evening,

Pete.

 

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1 hour ago, John Morrison said:

So who supplies the double lip seal, Moss or Rimmers?

John.

As I  buy all gearbox bits from ORS it would come from them though Moss do stock them if you ask, Rimmers I wouldnt know about as I refuse to buy from them unless its an absolute emergency..

Stuart.

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11 hours ago, Lebro said:

That clutch rod looked wrong to me - never seen one with a square end !

Bob

Definitely wrong it should just have a rounded end.

Stuart.

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Just now, Lebro said:

I guess it would work as long as the piston has a corresponding square recess in the outer end

Bob

Which in this case it wouldnt.;)

Stuart.

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4 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Depends on what car the slave cylinder came off, the rod must match up with one variety ?

True but in all the years Ive been working on cars Ive never come across one like it.

Stuart.

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29 minutes ago, stuart said:

True but in all the years Ive been working on cars Ive never come across one like it.

Stuart.

I would say a Heath Robinson part. But that would be doing him a disservice- his creations were more elaborate 

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