That was a year that was..

[Z320]

Hi Pete,

I drove my TR4A with the H-frame not tight bolted on the dashboard by accident some years ago

and because of the annoying noice of this slack connection I touched the bolts/nuts from behind the dashboard while driving to feel how this is is moving.

And this shocked and hurt me really badly!

I stopped immediately, took tools out of the boot and tighten them up.

In my opinion you better not drive without the H-frame 

Ciao, Marco

 

[Bfg]

Stuart ..if I recall correctly, I didn't even mention shuttle-shake in my reply to Roy.  All I said was "The H-frame does not do the same job" ..as having a backbone tunnel in the car.

 

4 hours ago, stuart said:

If you want a stiffer shell then an MCX5 is a great car.

Stuart. 

 

  

^  what you mean like this ? ..with its similarly 'very much doubt(ful)' central tunnel ?

Might I enquire..,  if the scuttle-shake was / is such an big deal.. how many TR2, TR3, and TR3A/B and/or Doretti owners have rushed out to buy and retrofit a TR4-type  H-frame ?

      ..after all, that section of the TR3 and TR4 chassis are possibly very similar ? ..aside from a couple of brackets.

- - -

Marco, I did the same when I first had my car and noticed its H-frame's top bolts were very loose (..one without its nut), and it was not a problem for me.  I've subsequently driven over five-hundred miles in the car without the frame fitted.  But thank you for your well intentioned caution.

- - -

Thank you Pete, I haven't yet needed to adjust it, but I'll check the manual to read up on what and when it is needed.  Cheers,

Pete.

 

[Bfg]

.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Bfg

[stuart]

18 hours ago, Bfg said:

Stuart ..if I recall correctly, I didn't even mention shuttle-shake in my reply to Roy.  All I said was "The H-frame does not do the same job" ..as having a backbone tunnel in the car.

 

 

  

^  what you mean like this ? ..with its similarly 'very much doubt(ful)' central tunnel ?

Might I enquire..,  if the scuttle-shake was / is such an big deal.. how many TR2, TR3, and TR3A/B and/or Doretti owners have rushed out to buy and retrofit a TR4-type  H-frame ?

      ..after all, that section of the TR3 and TR4 chassis are possibly very similar ? ..aside from a couple of brackets.

 

Pete.

 

The MX is a monocoque construction so it has a lot more strength designed into the shell. plus the screen frame is part of the shell too.

Sidescreen owners know only too well about scuttle shake though thats down to inadequate "A" Post design and was a feature of a lot of that era sports cars, I know one or two people, Pete Fenlon included who went to great lengths with extra bracing under the bulkhead to try and minimise it also as an "H" frame wouldnt fit them I feel thats not really a valid comment.

The TR4 centre section bears absolutely no comparison with the early cars despite being on a similar chassis. Also your car has the IRS chassis which is totally different and albeit weaker at the rear where the IRS fits the centre section its like comparing chalk and cheese to the earlier chassis.

Finally dont forget without any compliance in chassis/shell it will totally alter the entire handling characteristics of the car.

Stuart

Edited December 19, 2021 by stuart

[Z320]

Okay…

Ciao, Marco

Edited December 19, 2021 by Z320

[Bfg]

It's a busy time of year ..but still I'm now close to finishing up on Katie's  gearbox cover ..

Firstly though, I had to close over the speedo drive. . .

       

^ again trying to make things close fitting / less intrusive into the interior.  There was a little more work in making this a removable access cover, but really not a whole lot. My difficulty was in shaping the thin material (a reclaimed panel from the back of a boiler) as its steel was far less ductile than the original cover, and so somewhat reluctant to shape into a neat compound surface.

  

^ I also drilled the screw attachment holes between the two sections of this cover ..and those for attaching to the bulkhead and again to the drive-shaft tunnel. Then blanked the (dipstick ?) hole in the top of the forward section and the small one for the oil-filler, as well as several carpet fitting holes, before adding a few penny washers to where this cover's bottom flanges were a little frail.  ..and of course generally cleaned things up . . .

And then to add a coat of paint (again I'm using POR-15), followed by just a little seam sealer . . .

  

^ Strictly speaking that ought to be fine, as it'll all be under carpet ..but by special request . . .

On 12/12/2021 at 9:33 AM, BRENDA1 said:

 Hope you're going to paint it all red.

Mike redrose group

..If you like Mike

     

   

^ No prizes for this panel work and paint I think, but it'll serve its function.   Please note that there is no body filler or lead loading to fair out the shape,  so the shape I hammered is what I've got.

That's it from a damp and chilly Ipswich, where the paint is slow to dry.

Bidding you all a good evening,

Pete

 

 

Edited April 2 by Bfg

[Mk2 Chopper]

Enjoyed that fabrication, it's gonna look so good you won't want to fit the carpet! Speaking of carpet, what you going to fit, what will fit, will it need to be custom made now? 

Gareth

[stuart]

Did you remember to drill the hole to take the overdrive wiring?

Stuart.

[Bfg]

Stuart & Marco.  Please don't be annoyed with me.   Perhaps it's worth noting that, aside from a few extral 1/4" fastening holes, I've neither altered the floor edges or the bulkhead flange, so the grp gearbox cover could still, just as easily, be used instead.  And also., that I did take the time n' trouble to reshape the steel TR3 cover to fit under the standard facia support / H-frame ..should I subsequently decide that I prefer driving the car with it in.

- - - 

17 hours ago, Mk2 Chopper said:

Enjoyed that fabrication, it's gonna look so good you won't want to fit the carpet! Speaking of carpet, what you going to fit, what will fit, will it need to be custom made now? 

Gareth

Thanks Gareth. 

Quite often gearbox cover carpets appear to be somewhat reminiscent of Nora Batty's stockings,  &/or ..as was previously fitted on Katie, are fitted over a thick wad of under-felt  ..to then be rather reminiscent of a burial mound.  So yes, if I'm to benefit from pulling in the cover's shape here n' there for extra footwell space, and again for its storage pocket - these particular pieces of carpet will have to be tailored to suit.  The other footwell carpets ought to be standard though. 

I've recently bought a previously fitted, but lightly used TR6 carpet-set off Conrad, which on the whole will, I think, look better than the old ones, but those over the gearbox tunnel had been hacked (..certainly not professionally tailored) where the H-frame extends over the gear-change, whereas the early cars tend have their carpets with a finished rolled-edge around the gaiter. 

Sound insulation is another matter, all I can say for now is ..shuush !

Watch this space

Pete

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Bfg

[stuart]

Yes but did you drill the hole for the overdrive wiring?

Stuart.

[Bfg]

4 minutes ago, stuart said:

Did you remember to drill the hole to take the overdrive wiring?

Stuart.

I'd previously drilled the bulkhead, to take a wiring grommet, beside the throttle-pedal linkage, and have added a security tab to support the wires above the throttle's cross-bar to the relay. Those wires are now sleeved and of a suitable length to run around that route rather than through the gearbox tunnel.  However... just in case, I've just seam-sealed over the hole in the very top of the steel cover. It ought to just push out if I choose to route the wires that way.   

Pete

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

The other item for a steel tunnel I have toyed with for many years is the addition of some heat proof/sound proof insulation material.  the sort of stuff boat engines have on the underside of their covers.  I think attaching it to the underside might well reduce that cooking heat felt during summer radiated from the steel tunnel.

Any suggestions?

[stuart]

Just now, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

The other item for a steel tunnel I have toyed with for many years is the addition of some heat proof/sound proof insulation material.  the sort of stuff boat engines have on the underside of their covers.  I think attaching it to the underside might well reduce that cooking heat felt during summer radiated from the steel tunnel.

Any suggestions?

Whatever it is would need some really good glue or another type of fastener as Ive seen a few attempts where its all been dangling down over the box pretty soon. Similar problem with under bonnet insulation.

Stuart.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

8 minutes ago, stuart said:

Whatever it is would need some really good glue or another type of fastener as Ive seen a few attempts where its all been dangling down over the box pretty soon. Similar problem with under bonnet insulation.

Stuart.

Yes the attachment method I feel would have to be mechanical rather than adhesive.   I too have seen the under bonnet engine wipers aka stick on sound proofing.   Why was it always on a perfectly painted immaculately finished Capri?

[Ian Vincent]

1 hour ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

The other item for a steel tunnel I have toyed with for many years is the addition of some heat proof/sound proof insulation material.  the sort of stuff boat engines have on the underside of their covers.  I think attaching it to the underside might well reduce that cooking heat felt during summer radiated from the steel tunnel.

Any suggestions?

I stuck foil coated insulation / soundproofing to the cabin side of my tunnel cover.  It seems to cut the heat down quite a bit.  I think I bought it from Moss, it's about 5mm thick.

Rgds Ian

[Charlie D]

Why not sew tabs onto the insulation at various places and then sew strong small round magnets to the tabs that will stick to the metal. I've done similar on the home made sidescreens of my 3A and it pulls the back of the side screen onto the bodywork quite well, and does not pull off at speed.

 

Charlie

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

1 hour ago, Charlie D said:

Why not sew tabs onto the insulation at various places and then sew strong small round magnets to the tabs that will stick to the metal. I've done similar on the home made sidescreens of my 3A and it pulls the back of the side screen onto the bodywork quite well, and does not pull off at speed.

 

Charlie

Good idea.

[Bfg]

Season Greetings to one and all.   Ho., Ho., Ho.,  says the big guy with the grey beard that looks back at me from the mirror.

Just an afternoon of pottering tasks ..on the slay, this past week or so . . .

  

^ cardboard template and then the almost finished article in ribbed rubber, which befittingly was up-cycled from a damaged piece used on the shelves in the Range  household store.

   

^ In case you're wondering, it's simply a noise and heat barrier between the engine bay and the gearbox tunnel.  Of course the same bolts are also used to secure my gearbox cover.  Credit to Steven, in our local TSSC group, for sharing the idea with me. He's used similar on his Triumph Spitfire and says it works surprising well.

Next up, having learnt of high-torque starter motor woes on this excellent forum, I decided to have a quick look inside mine. Like the car's dynamo, it most probably needs a little fresh grease on its bearings (being so close to the radiant heat of the exhaust down-pipes they are particularly susceptible to drying out) . . . 

  

^ the starter motor was still off the car, so it was simply a matter of undoing the two long screws and the wire, to separate the motor from its gear box. The motor itself is remarkably tiny. Thankfully, despite the engine's coolant having been dripping on it, there was nothing but very light surface rust inside. The bearing next to its output shaft, just needed cleaning and I'll try to get some fresh grease in there.  Under the pressed-steel-end-cover (which faces the exhaust down-pipes) there's a tiny little bearing .. and despite a good flushing out with carb' cleaner it still clunks as it turns. The problem then was how to get it off, to replace it ?  . . .

   

The gap between the bearing and the plate is just about 2.5mm, and I know my pullers would be too big, So I thought to make a Heath Robinson one, especially for this job, out of scrap metal.  Fortunately though I found., in my bag of scrap steel, a bracket, 2.25mm thick, and already slotted to carry something pretty heavy. The bearing spindle dropped over that and then with blocks of wood to support the armature.. I was hands free to use a centre punch, on the end of the spindle, to drive it out.  Success !   Of course our excellent and local East Anglia Bearings is closed for the holidays, but I've left a message with the part number (NSK 608Z) to ask if they have or can get one for me.

Moving on.., after yesterday's seasonal good spirits (..just half a bottle) with my old college buddy Chris, this afternoon I was ready to get on with the next task. . .

   

^ Yes, I'd succumbed to temptation and bought a pair of leather covered MX5 seats.  My back is too prone to aching when a car seat is the wrong shape for me and also twisted (as many seem to be ..perhaps thanks to the weight of the clutch). I have tried two standard TR4A seats in the car and neither was any better, so e-bay for the seats (under £200 delivered) and my good friend Rich for a pair of seat runner adapters ..to fit the Mazda seats without having to alter the standard seat bolt holes in the floor. 

As per the instructions supplied - the seat runners of the Mazda need flattening out and the pins sticking down at the front also need chopping off.  As you can see I did this manually.  This is the passenger seat, and the rear end of the inside runner is angled down (top of second photo).  This is just next to the seat belt mounting (on the Mazda seat) and is a pretty tough mounting.  I cut a vee in the side and then managed to also bend that end of the runner flat (..using the grips, I needed an extension bar to bend this one).  Sometime before final fitting, I'll remove the runner and weld the v-slot up again.

   

^ The seat runner adapters are conveniently labeled (this one's PR standing for Passenger-Rear bracket) which as you can see overlaps the body mount. I'll most likely cut the body mounting plate and weld the two plates together.  The second of these photos shows the corner of Mazda seat runner sitting on the standard seat mounting bolt. As it happens the seat wobbled diagonally (this floor is uneven, rather than the seat or adapter bracket), and so a couple of thick body washers lifted the seat runner up enough to clear the bolt head and also leveled the seat to stop it rocking.    That'll work.  The adapters made life very much easier and altogether the task happened pretty quickly.

That MX5 passenger seat is now temporarily fitted. . .

^ To compare

  

^ I've never found this car's original seats attractive.  Indeed (..just my opinion you understand) but out of all the TR models - the TR4A's are the ugliest of them all, and being short and stubby - the least comfortable for me.  Conversely, the Mazda seats are too modern looking for a 1960's car, but that aside - they are really good looking, both beautifully shaped and I very much like their white stitching.  I'll re-colour the light grey squabs to black, which will tone them down ..and then I'll be happy with the benefits of having an adjustable backrest and better ergonomics. 

For me ..dainty as I am not, size and fit is really important.  I find the Standard-Triumph seats look bulbous but are actually pretty softly sprung (generally more so than the bolster across its back rest !). The Mazda seats are firm in comparison, but (at least in the passenger space) offered good under-thigh and lateral support. In essence they fit my shape much better.  Despite their differences in shape and firmness - both seats offer a remarkably similar position to sit in. 

Across wise the centreline of the Mazda seat is 310mm from the centreline of the handbrake bracket, whereas the Triumph seat is 10mm more.  In practice I don't think that'll make a jot of difference.  Length wise, the bolt-holes in my Triumph's seat runners had been redrilled to move them back some 30mm.  The Mazda seats and adapter brackets, when pushed right the way back, offer just a very-little more legroom.  And, for my weight and stature, I sit just a tad lower. Those tiny distances work together, and so the bottom line ..for me, is that with a foot rested against the bulkhead step (where the main-dip switch is), my knee clearance to the dashboard centre switch console is 1/2" or so greater ..when sitting in the MX5 seat versus the Standard-Triumph seat. 

Just half-an-inch may seem like nothing worth writing about, but for my getting in and out of the car ..it counts.

Whether the Mazda seats will transmit more harshness of ride remains to be seen.  I think though that their better ergonomics will (for me) lessen back and bum ache over a greater touring distance.  In the meantime I'm quite looking forward to feeling supported around corners when I go for a spin. 

That's it for tonight, so I bid you a pleasant evening and a good holiday.

Pete   

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Bfg

[Steves_TR6]

Nice write upnthere Pete, i’m leaning towards mx5 seats and so this was very helpful!

steve

[Mk2 Chopper]

You've been busy again! Lots of progress in the final days of 2021, not long before the spring beckons and you can enjoy all these improvements. 

Gareth

[stuart]

I note you say the seats are firm, in their original form there isnt a huge amount of padding in the base and this actually works well even for long distances as I have driven North Yorkshire to London and then on to Cornwall in a day in mine with no problem and Im 6`4" Some people complain they sit too high in recovered MX seats this is often because they have been over stuffed which is a mistake a lot of trimmers make and you end up sitting on rather than in the seats..

Stuart.

[PodOne]

7 hours ago, stuart said:

I note you say the seats are firm, in their original form there isnt a huge amount of padding in the base and this actually works well even for long distances as I have driven North Yorkshire to London and then on to Cornwall in a day in mine with no problem and Im 6`4" Some people complain they sit too high in recovered MX seats this is often because they have been over stuffed which is a mistake a lot of trimmers make and you end up sitting on rather than in the seats..

Stuart.

Agree with Stuart having had quite a few MX5's.

I once had a pair re-trimmed and the bases were over padded so they ceased to be supportive to the point where you would slide around in the bends. In OEM spec they work well as long as the foam is in good nick so I'd suggest if having them re-trimmed stick with the original amounts of foam/padding. The Mazda Speed seats are the best if you can find a pair.

Andy

[Bfg]

The MX5 driver's seat I've bought is naturally very much more worn than the passengers and will need some fresh foam inserted. So thanks Stuart and Andy.. I'll be wary of not adding too much.  The metal in the RHS of the backrest side bolster is beginning to be apparent and in the base - the LHS bolster is flattened. The squabs and other bolsters are fine, except of course the leather needs sympathetic restoration.

This afternoon I reassembled the MX5 driver's seat runners which were stiff and clunky. . .

   

^ after a whole lot of flushing out with petrol and running the sliders back n' forth numerous times to clear the crud and surface rust out of the mechanism, all I could do to lessen the clunking was to run some emery paper over the groves (Left hand photo) to lessen the each hard edge. I only dismantled the one, as the other when flushed out was in better condition.  Once repainted, I lubricated each with a generous dollops of waterproof grease. They now clunk a tiny amount as they roll ..but not enough to warrant any further rework. They are easy to adjust and so good to go.

Again, during this seat's fitting into the car, I found one of the runner's fouled the adapter bracket. Similarly inserting a washer or two under the runner, enabled it to clear.

However, having fitted this seat I found its position still too far forward for a BFG.   As previously said, it's about 1/2" more than the standard seat, but that was too tight for me.  I really need to move the seat back a bit, as much relative to the door opening as to the pedals, as again.. my size 12's have an issue swinging in or getting out passed the door.  You try wearing flippers instead of shoes and you'll see what I mean !

   

^ reviewing the adapter plates, I recognised that I could rotate the front one around by 180 degrees ..and the holes to the floor still aligned and the studs to the seat runners were still square.. but were then positioned 58-60mm further back.  Where the 10mm nuts are seen on the floor, in the Left photo, is where the studs would be with the adapter plate the correct way around.   The photo on the right shows the rear bracket, and because the floor's bolt pattern relative to the MX5 runner studs is the same, rotating that bracket around by 180 degrees has no effect.  

I decide that (for the rear bracket) I'd have to drill new rear floor holes, some 60mm further back (to match the rotated front plate). Doing that would be fine for the inboard one, as it is clear of the main chassis rail and there's enough space to use a sizeable plate under the floor for seat security, but the one closest to the sill then would be over the IRS-chassis.  hey ho . . .

  

^ So I modified the adapter bracket, just on the outside, to position its hole through the floor to where I could reach from the underside and also fit a decent sized body washer.  That works. . .

 

^ the MX5 driver's seat, so fitted, sits 1-1/2" further back, and is now hard against the rear inner wheel arch. That extra length makes things very much better, but there's still another 3/4" to easily be had ..if I locally flatten the curve shape of the wheel arch. There's certainly plenty of space between that and the wheel to do so.  But it'll have to wait until when my hammering will not disturb the neighbours.  

Until then.., I bid you all a very pleasant New Years Eve.

Pete

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Bfg

[Ian Vincent]

13 hours ago, Bfg said:

Again, during this seat's fitting into the car, I found one of the runner's fouled the adapter bracket. Similarly inserting a washer or two under the runner, enabled it to clear.

I  have a nut top and bottom of my Mazda seat brackets on either side at the front, it enables me to adjust the rake of the seat squab.

Rgds Ian

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

15 hours ago, Bfg said:

The MX5 driver's seat I've bought is naturally very much more worn than the passengers and will need some fresh foam inserted. So thanks Stuart and Andy.. I'll be wary of not adding too much.  The metal in the RHS of the backrest side bolster is beginning to be apparent and in the base - the LHS bolster is flattened. The squabs and other bolsters are fine, except of course the leather needs sympathetic restoration.

This afternoon I reassembled the MX5 driver's seat runners which were stiff and clunky. . .

   

^ after a whole lot of flushing out with petrol and running the sliders back n' forth numerous times to clear the crud and surface rust out of the mechanism, all I could do to lessen the clunking was to run some emery paper over the groves (Left hand photo) to lessen the each hard edge. I only dismantled the one, as the other when flushed out was in better condition.  Once repainted, I lubricated each with a generous dollops of waterproof grease. They now clunk a tiny amount as they roll ..but not enough to warrant any further rework. They are easy to adjust and so good to go.

Again, during this seat's fitting into the car, I found one of the runner's fouled the adapter bracket. Similarly inserting a washer or two under the runner, enabled it to clear.

However, having fitted this seat I found its position still too far forward for a BFG.   As previously said, it's about 1/2" more than the standard seat, but that was too tight for me.  I really need to move the seat back a bit, as much relative to the door opening as to the pedals, as again.. my size 12's have an issue swinging in or getting out passed the door.  You try wearing flippers instead of shoes and you'll see what I mean !

   

^ reviewing the adapter plates, I recognised that I could rotate the front one around by 180 degrees ..and the holes to the floor still aligned and the studs to the seat runners were still square.. but were then positioned 58-60mm further back.  Where the 10mm nuts are seen on the floor, in the Left photo, is where the studs would be with the adapter plate the correct way around.   The photo on the right shows the rear bracket, and because the floor's bolt pattern relative to the MX5 runner studs is the same, rotating that bracket around by 180 degrees has no effect.  

I decide that (for the rear bracket) I'd have to drill new rear floor holes, some 60mm further back (to match the rotated front plate). Doing that would be fine for the inboard one, as it is clear of the main chassis rail and there's enough space to use a sizeable plate under the floor for seat security, but the one closest to the sill then would be over the IRS-chassis.  hey ho . . .

  

^ So I modified the adapter bracket, just on the outside, to position its hole through the floor to where I could reach from the underside and also fit a decent sized body washer.  That works. . .

 

^ the MX5 driver's seat, so fitted, sits 1-1/2" further back, and is now hard against the rear inner wheel arch. That extra length makes things very much better, but there's still another 3/4" to easily be had ..if I locally flatten the curve shape of the wheel arch. There's certainly plenty of space between that and the wheel to do so.  But it'll have to wait until when my hammering will not disturb the neighbours.  

Until then.., I bid you all a very pleasant New Years Eve.

Pete

 

 

Sadly the MX5 seats with detachable headrests I bought to go in my 3A reduced the available leg length unless I did surgery to the wheel arches and dog shelf.

Unless someone knows a trick the seats are going to an Eunos owner to replace the tatty things he has fitted.