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11 hours ago, PodOne said:

Might be a step too far and impractical Pete but any scope to dog leg the pedal(s) to the right by 1-2" to give your left foot more room as it is you might end up ridding the clutch.

Andy

Exactly, theres a lot of room between the pedals, thats what I did with mine to accommodate me driving in work boots. FWIW the comparison between TR4 and 4a H frames will show you theres a lot less of it with a TR4 one, that gives a lot more room and is a direct swap.

Stuart.

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Pete - DON'T give up with owning a TR - there are other cars out there - just put the word out on here and elsewhere and I'm sure something will come up Chin up  Cheers Rich

Or these people? http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/classicmini/engine-components/2k7440.html Roger

. Carrying on from TR4 -v- Tr4A engine, and my purchasing a 'spare'  < here >  ..so that I might get on and have an engine ready by the time the Chance is actually bought and shipped,  we h

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Thanks Peter,  yes indeed that's the sort of thing I had in mind, thanks for spotting one with a rubber.  

I've been out to sit in the car this morning (..in my slippers) and the distance from the lower (1" wide) rest I've created and the bulkhead is a massive 3-3/4" ..read  loss of legroom.  Although just an extra 2" would be a good end length for my legs.   

Clearly I still have a little extra work or some sort of lateral thinking to happen. 

12 hours ago, PodOne said:

Might be a step too far and impractical Pete but any scope to dog leg the pedal(s) to the right by 1-2" to give your left foot more room as it is you might end up ridding the clutch.

Andy

Thanks Andy and Stuart.  That is a possibility, but ergonomically a disaster..  The clutch pedal on my car already hangs 1-1/2" to the right of the steering column, which means our foot, knee and hip are skewed some 7-1/2" to the right, as we push down on the clutch pedal, which swings in-line with the axis of the car.   

1863747370_TR4clutchoperation.thumb.jpg.ad82ed0dbe2b71c2180698edfc63b6fd.jpg

^ TR4A seat to clutch pedal configuration.  The hip's ball joints indicated by the two circles.  With the seat in its further back position, there's a 12.6 degree skew of the hip and foot to the clutch pedal. which then pushes down square to the car.  For those with the seat 100mm forward this angle increases to 14.3 degrees.  So perhaps the clutch feels heavier than published figures might imply ?  Either way, I'm sure left-hand-drive cars are considerably better in this respect, but then their brake pedal ergonomics are worse.  

Although the human body is incredibly adaptive, particularly when young &/or fit n' agile, it may be that some of us (in the latter-stages-of-life) experience some discomfort (particularly in the hip or as a back-ache) after a lot of stop/start driving in traffic.  

So ideally I would very much like to move the clutch pedal across to the left, rather than to the right. 

Pete.

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After a couple of days off, I did another afternoon's work ..with my doing similar slimming-down of the bulges on the passenger-side's cover. . .

P1400635si.JPG.e2ca8a00480055d317a3499cf94a048d.JPG     P1400698s.jpg.c94e8e9137bba7e492d304b3c118e062.jpg

^ Left is what we had, with an inch and a half lateral clearance besides the clutch lever arm.  ^^ I've slimmed that down to around about 1/2".

And then, the top part was dropped down a bit at the bulkhead, and an inch or so where the two halves of this cover will meet to fit under the H-frame. . .

P1400699s.jpg.9d112cb451a6e1711d5ee689e9eeb687.jpg

^  its getting very close to looking like the fibreglass cover that was on the car.

P1400701s.jpg.8503a30971b99a2e4bf40fea4373b252.jpg

^ the top of the front section is presently only held in place with self-tapping-screws, but all-in-all the shape is now as tight to the gearbox as I dare take it.  It's still a mighty-great-lump to have inside the car though ! 

I hope to get things welded tomorrow ..but with noise abatement courtesies (..what with respecting neighbours an' all), I won't be able to fettle those welds, or to make the overlapping flange. That'll just have to wait until next week.   So for the time being..

I'll bid you once again a pleasant weekend.

Pete.

 

Edited by Bfg
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Looking good Sir, don’t forget to put a hole in the passenger side for the gearbox filler, I put a 2” one in mine then made a plate to fit over it with a gasket glued to it, I found that the rubber bung kept coming out and letting water in. Hope your going to paint it all red.

Mike redrose group 

 

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Hi Pete,

in my 4A there is a very poor fitting fibre glas gearbox cover,

this is why I‘m watching your work with much interest.

Allow me a poor question, shure I could find the answer in the posts above (?):

which TR models had the cover made from sheet steel and do they fit on 4As with little effort?

When I bought my 4A it came with a rotten cover made from cardboard. I thought that was original?

Wishing you still much success with your car!

Ciao, Marco

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As far as I am aware . . .

  • The TR4 and later cover was made in fibre-board. GRP ones are replacements. The side-screen cars had steel gearbox covers. 
  • The sidescreen cars do not have a H-frame, nor did the Italia or Doretti.
  • The steel TR3 gearbox cover sits onto the floor, whereas the TR4 onwards have a raised lip around the gearbox tunnel ..and so the TR3 cover sits high by about 12mm. 
  • The TR3 cover fastens through its forward flange to the bulkhead. The TR4 and later cars cover is screwed on from the side into a flange which projects from the bulkhead. 
  • The H-frame necessitates that cross-section of the cover to be 25mm lower and also narrower (width across its top ), because the H=frame tapers in on the LHS.  The RHS is already very close fitting because it was designed for the TR4 handbrake besides it. 
  • The starter bendix is different on the later cars and so the TR3 cover needs just a little easing to clear its more bulbous casting on the bell housing. However, the steel g/box cover from a TR3A already has the deeper bulge (..see Bob's post on 5th December)

Hope that helps,

Pete

 

Edited by Bfg
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Having established the steel g/box cover's shape and fit,  I next needed to weld it together and at the same time get down to details ..like the overlap between my front and rear sections . . .

P1400709s.JPG.4f2fd976557430cd7ddf6ef40bb7f3dc.JPG    P1400707s.JPG.dab9a89b1636bc87c4551d1b931262f5.JPG

^ raw material came from a pair of household radiator mounting brackets ..naturally reclaimed from a skip.

 

P1400742s.JPG.5ef1e803a9c0e27d4616d606b2957f48.JPG

^ getting close.. with the overlapping flange added (although not yet drilled for its fastenings), a flange added under the speedo drive,  and of course the forward section's top and RHS welded together with its maximised footwell width and sorta clutch-foot rests.  I still need to close the hole in the top as I can't imagine access is necessary there.  The cover over the speedo will, I think, be screwed on.   But then again..  how often does one need to just get to the speedo cable ? 

On the LHS of the cover, I wanted to add just a little detail. . .

P1400713s.JPG.b643b6db385628529cbc81b9cfe04e5f.JPG

^ before the overdrive and its solenoid, there's a fair amount of space between the floor and the gearbox.  The block of wood you see pictured is 46 x 98mm section, and I've screwed it there, level with the raised flange of the floor edge, to see if it would come out passed the O/D solenoid.  It did, and so . . .

P1400723s.JPG.40c6b6d3f229206ad088a384c9a5e96f.JPG

^ 4-1/4" (110mm) above the bottom flange I formed a rolled edge, for panel rigidity. 

P1400733s.JPG.a5741c4d406f595e2263a7ddeaf16a03.JPG   

^ The top cut-edge was joggled a little before I fabricated the sides of a simple box.  Although presently only tacked together - it's already a surprisingly stiff structure. My intent is to have a plywood lift-out back panel ..where just two screws need be removed for good access to the gearbox filler / oil level plug.

P1400734s.JPG.ae9f29f85dc2671552488dc5a77712e1.JPG

^   When the back of this box is in place, I'll have an extra storage bin.  It's not huge ..but I think it'll come in handy, whether for documents or else for a windscreen squeegee & cloth.   Its inside dimensions are ; 1-1/2" (40mm) front to back x 8-3/4" (225mm) long, with 4-1/4" (110mm) up to the rolled edge, and an average of 7-1/2" (190mm) vertical from its base to the curved top cover.  If I fit a fabric liner, then I can pull out anything 'lost' in the bottom. 

That's it for today.  I bid you all., a warm and pleasant evening, 

Pete.

 

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Some nice fabrication and details there. I'm guessing if you don't have the H frame fitted and can remove the cover in sections you won't need a separate access to the speedo drive. 

Gareth

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9 hours ago, Bfg said:

Thanks Peter, how often is that likely to be ?   This cover is now in two sections so only the rear would have to be removed for access. 

With the current crop of repro angle drives I should say fairly frequently. Dont forget you need a hole in the top front of the cover for the overdrive wiring to pass through, (also reverse light if you have it.)

Stuart.

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On 12/14/2021 at 7:56 PM, Bfg said:

Having established the steel g/box cover's shape and fit,  I next needed to weld it together and at the same time get down to details ..like the overlap between my front and rear sections . . .

P1400709s.JPG.4f2fd976557430cd7ddf6ef40bb7f3dc.JPG    P1400707s.JPG.dab9a89b1636bc87c4551d1b931262f5.JPG

^ raw material came from a pair of household radiator mounting brackets ..naturally reclaimed from a skip.

 

P1400742s.JPG.5ef1e803a9c0e27d4616d606b2957f48.JPG

^ getting close.. with the overlapping flange added (although not yet drilled for its fastenings), a flange added under the speedo drive,  and of course the forward section's top and RHS welded together with its maximised footwell width and sorta clutch-foot rests.  I still need to close the hole in the top as I can't imagine access is necessary there.  The cover over the speedo will, I think, be screwed on.   But then again..  how often does one need to just get to the speedo cable ? 

On the LHS of the cover, I wanted to add just a little detail. . .

P1400713s.JPG.b643b6db385628529cbc81b9cfe04e5f.JPG

^ before the overdrive and its solenoid, there's a fair amount of space between the floor and the gearbox.  The block of wood you see pictured is 46 x 98mm section, and I've screwed it there, level with the raised flange of the floor edge, to see if it would come out passed the O/D solenoid.  It did, and so . . .

P1400723s.JPG.40c6b6d3f229206ad088a384c9a5e96f.JPG

^ 4-1/4" (110mm) above the bottom flange I formed a rolled edge, for panel rigidity. 

P1400733s.JPG.a5741c4d406f595e2263a7ddeaf16a03.JPG   

^ The top cut-edge was joggled a little before I fabricated the sides of a simple box.  Although presently only tacked together - it's already a surprisingly stiff structure. My intent is to have a plywood lift-out back panel ..where just two screws need be removed for good access to the gearbox filler / oil level plug.

P1400734s.JPG.ae9f29f85dc2671552488dc5a77712e1.JPG

Don't know about "warm", but "pleasant" it is.

I must say, Pete, aesthetically it is begin to look nicer too!

Ciao,

   David

 

 

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On 12/16/2021 at 1:13 PM, PaulAnderson said:

In case readers are not aware Racestorations sell a split gearbox cover in fibreglass.  It’s Here or with additional access holes Here

Paul

Is that hole on the lower-rear right-hand-side to access the little overdrive lever ? If so is that lever a manual override should the switch or one of its connections fail ?

Thanks, Pete

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On 12/16/2021 at 1:13 PM, PaulAnderson said:

In case readers are not aware Racestorations sell a split gearbox cover in fibreglass.  It’s Here or with additional access holes Here

Paul

Was there a reason you did not chose one of these ?

not a criticism just curious 

Roy

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16 hours ago, roy53 said:

Was there a reason you did not chose one of these ?

not a criticism just curious 

Roy

in essence.. Body stiffness ..not mine, the cars. :rolleyes:

Fibreglass is a wonderful composite ..which is incredibly strong for its weight (especially in tension), but it is not in itself a very stiff material, nor locally very strong in compression or tear (ie., around bolt holes). This includes aramid and carbon-fibre composites too.  Any stiffness comes from its formed shape, &/or thick sandwich construction ..and also how well it is bonded to adjacent structures (such as to frames, bulkheads and built-in furniture in a boat). 

It's just my opinion.. but I feel that using pressed-cardboard, or replacing that with thin fibreglass or abs plastic, misses the point of having a backbone tunnel in the car, which is what the original structural designers specified.. in the side-screen cars, which then evolved into the wider & longer latter models.  The H-frame does not do the same job.

A well-fitted steel cover structurally extends the driveshaft tunnel (a pressed-steel u-sectioned-backbone fastened on either side to the main chassis rails), forward to the bulkhead and therefore to the forward body mounts (..both where the floor's bolted down, and also those on the diagonals to the front suspension towers).  Aside from adding a huge amount of beam-depth - where door openings and no-roof otherwise compromise body rigidity ..perhaps more critically with regard to the car's handling - it will contribute to torsional stiffness.

Without wanting to rain on anyone's parade.. it's intriguing to read of adding anti-roll-bars and the host of 'upgraded' bushes, springs & dampers - when these car's overall structure ..all those lovely goodies are bolted to, flexes ..somewhat unpredictably !

As a little bonus, should Katie's  crankshaft break ..and the spinning flywheel decides to pay a visit into a footwell, there is at least now something more substantial to slow it down or divert it another way.. 

Pete.

 

Edited by Bfg
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A lot of fallacies in your post there Peter, sidescreen cars suffer scuttle shake and a lot of body movement because of the shell design plus the chassis was also designed back in the 1940`s albeit slightly stiffened. The TR4 on centre section of shell (essentially the same all the way through to the 6) is a whole lot more rigid and doesnt suffer the scuttle shake when its put together properly so the lack of a steel tunnel cover doesnt make a ha'p'orth of difference to it, notice the raised centre section with the channel pressing in the floors which is so much stiffer than the original sidescreen floor. The H frame purely ties the bottom centre of the dash down which is essential as its a long unsupported section, other wise and when for instance you pull the choke out, doing it constantly would split the dash and pull the crash pads off.

As to introducing more torsional stiffness I very much doubt it and it may also cause more problems than its worth, why do you think all the guys who race/rally these cars dont bother with doing this.

Good luck with the project but I think you`ll find with a decent chassis and a well put together shell they work very well as the factory designed them. If you want a stiffer shell then an MCX5 is a great car.;)

Stuart. 

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22 hours ago, Bfg said:

Is that hole on the lower-rear right-hand-side to access the little overdrive lever ? If so is that lever a manual override should the switch or one of its connections fail ?

Thanks, Pete

Pete, the hole is indeed for access to that actuating lever, which needs adjustment from time to time. The adjustment procedure is in the workshop manual.

Pete

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