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Thank you Gentlemen, I doubted the clutch slave-cylinder's pushrod was original but then I'm still learning about these cars.  I'll ask my friend Rich if he happens to have a correct one in his garden shed versions of a Tardis.

In the meantime I've been having a bashing time of these past few days. . .

On 11/26/2021 at 10:15 PM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

My concern in using the steel tunnel is that in a TR3 if you fit a later 4 synchro gearbox, as found In TR4A, finds the starter motor bulge in the bell housing touching the inside face of the steel tunnel.   Modification involves either cutting a lump off the bell housing or reshaping the steel tunnel to clear the bell housing.

Cheers, Peter W

E64BBFBD-7B94-4FCA-9BD8-292132BADBE9.jpeg

Indeed Peter, with the gearbox now installed X marks the spot that needed relieving.

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^ with the cover back in place and bolted down as best I could (it was being held away just a little in this front corner, I could tap on the outside of the cover to find the centre of the hard contact sound of the bellhousing's starter motor bulge.  I marked that, and then transferred the mark to the inside of the cover with a centre-punch dint.   I also measured the bulge from the floor rim and from the bulkhead, to know its extents.  I then stretched (read - hammered ..but with awareness !) the metal locally to form a corresponding bulge. . .   

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^ checking from the inside ..again using the camera to see where the head couldn't possible get into, the clearance now created between the bellhousing and the cover. In most places I'm leaving more of a gap around the gearbox, for sound insulation, but this is right next to where my size 12 brogue is trying to find a resting place ..other than on the clutch pedal or bulkhead mounted headlamp-dip-switch, so I wanted to keep things tight.  BTW., the fibreglass cover that was fitted rubbed on this corner which I think might have been Katie's  #287 rattle n' clatter.  With foot room (width) in mind.. I then did a little more bashing & cutting just forward of this bulge. . .

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^ This is yet to be be dressed (smoothed), but I'm sure you can see the indentation forward of the starter motor's bulge, and also that I've cut-off the flange, which extended passed that corner of the bulkhead.  The TR4 cover's fastening flange, projecting back from the bulkhead is still there, so the cover will still have a seal in that corner. And although I may have only gained another 3/8" to 1/2" of width, it all helps make the car more comfortable for me.  

- - -

Next up, having got this front section of the cover to fit the floor and bulkhead nicely, would be to tackle the cover's rear section - which is to fit between this forward section and the propshaft tunnel.  But first I had to overcome a psychological hurdle ..to the point of it being utterly demotivating . . .

On 3/21/2021 at 2:29 PM, Bfg said:

However... Tommy seemed to be struggling with simply getting on with the job. It was his job and so I tried to only suggest client instructions to what was wanted.  In truth I was enthusiastic by the fit and I just wanted to get on and do it. His rolling & smoking cigarettes while he was thinking was getting to me ..as indeed was rap "music" out of the transistor, having tea and then toasted sandwiches, and his not being able to find tools.  There are no solid work-benches, and two lightweight stands are covered with tools and drill bits ..from however long ago.  So anything is done by scampering around on the floor or otherwise hammered over a steel (horse) trestle at the other end of the workshop

According to the photos, we started looking at these g/box covers at 11:40am. And the photo taken ..where the cover was simply cut into two, was taken at 13:12pm ..an hour and a half later !  ..by 16:00 we had packed up.

The cuts (as darts) he'd made to bring the small rear part of the cover lower & narrower (to fit under the H-frame) was let's say "not as I would have done it".  Very ugly indeed, horribly hammered, and with just a few holding-tacks of weld to show for 4-1/4 hours work. The front / larger part of the cover hadn't yet been touched.

If I were to let it continue, then it would be a very expensive job (for what I was getting).  Perhaps it's a sad reflection on me, but I am not even able to watch someone work like this.  After doing things my own way, and just getting on with the job on my own for the past 40 years - I was getting more and more wound up.  I didn't say anything but.. I'll not continue with him doing this. 

P1400584s.JPG.65c9b2a171311d4d5374eef877402c65.JPG    P1400582s.JPG.d4980360727ff2bc3f6bec861d835947.JPG

^ Untouched since that day in March, this was how things were when I called a halt to Tommy's efforts.  It may seem odd to some, but to me these are abusive hammer marks.  

 

My task for today., was to make this once tidy gearbox tunnel, once again tidy.  And for it to be structural.  The question was how to proceed.? 

I started off by scrubbing out the inside of dirty grease / oily sooty deposits, and the hardened remnants of an ancient rubber or was it bituminous seal.  I cannot believe any professional would even start to panel beat something that has filthy crud inside it.  How can they see or feel what they are doing ? 

I then chose to undo most of what had been done, and so released the tack welds.  To clean up overlapping metal and, more readily get inside with my panel-beating hammer and dolly, to redress this panel's shape.. I cut (with my faithful old Gilbow hand-shears) from the bottom cut on the left hand side (seen in this 2nd photo) around in a curve to the long hole..  Not exactly surgeon like, but I'm sure you get the drift.   My intent was to try and save the top piece with its original gear-change hole, if only to use that as template. 

It took a little while to get things looking like it hadn't been in a crash, but thanks to good quality steel used in the 1950's.. it progressed well.  The next stage was then to fit this panel's bottom flange to the floor edge. The TR4 is a little more shapely in these parts ..probably because its squarer seats needed a tad more space, so a few cuts through the flanges would be required. Nothing very drastic but necessary to get a decent fit. 

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^ I also needed another bulge.. this one is to fit over the speedo cable, which then necessitated my having to refold that section of flange.

While doing these things I was bearing in mind how to re-form it (this section of the TR3 cover) lower and narrower to fit under the TR4's dashboard support / H-frame //and yet for the gear-change boot to be end up in the right place  ?  

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^ the front section of the tunnel cover is clear of the H-frame, but will still need to be lowered at its back-end by an inch and also narrowed, particularly on its LHS. The rear section I reshaped to bring its top considerably narrower. The 8mm thick pieces of wood are spacers to allow for carpet.  The cover, where it sits over the prop-shaft tunnel was slit back from what was a grommet hole (..but for the last 3/8") so even that part of this panel's top could overlap and be narrower.

Next,  I needed to recreate the top of this rear section ..the bit I'd cut-off.  I opted to straighten out / redress the original and tack-weld over Tommy's cuts, because I wanted this part's curves and hole for the gear-change rubber and also the original transition shape ..from rising up from the prop-shaft tunnel to leveling off over the gearbox.  . . . 

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^ I happy that this rear section is beginning to look half decent again.  Shame about the extra work but hey that's water under the bridge already ..not least as I'm pleased with today's progress.

Bidding you a good weekend,

Pete.

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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Pete - DON'T give up with owning a TR - there are other cars out there - just put the word out on here and elsewhere and I'm sure something will come up Chin up  Cheers Rich

Or these people? http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/classicmini/engine-components/2k7440.html Roger

. Carrying on from TR4 -v- Tr4A engine, and my purchasing a 'spare'  < here >  ..so that I might get on and have an engine ready by the time the Chance is actually bought and shipped,  we h

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3 minutes ago, Ian Vincent said:

Did you cut the dipstick hole or was it already in there Bob?

Rgds Ian

They didnt delete the dipstick till later after they changed the starter.

Stuart.

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2 hours ago, Lebro said:

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This is the shape of my "bulge" (oo Matron)  The cover must be off a late 3A which is odd, I had thought it to be original.

Bob

Very much more pronounced bulge you have there Bob..  I don't suppose you have a photo which shows how tightly the carpets fit around (into) this sort of shape. 

Otherwise, the side's shape makes very much more sense when the handbrake is seen next to it.

Thanks, Pete.  

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Thanks Bob, ;)

From that piccie I gather the carpet simply drapes over the bulge.  And so even if there were more stretch in the carpet material then there's nothing to pull it in.  I'll do a search, as I seem to remember seeing a carpet with a black heel type pad where that left foot might rest. It might offer a better shape and therefore more width for my big feet.   Cheers.    

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18 minutes ago, Bfg said:

Thanks Bob, ;)

From that piccie I gather the carpet simply drapes over the bulge.  And so even if there were more stretch in the carpet material then there's nothing to pull it in.  I'll do a search, as I seem to remember seeing a carpet with a black heel type pad where that left foot might rest. It might offer a better shape and therefore more width for my big feet.   Cheers.    

Depending on supplier some do have a heel pad there. I use carpet clips in strategic places round the cover to keep them neatly in place especially as most of the tunnel carpets supplied these days have a join up the middle and dont fit particularly snugly.https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/category/83/carpet-fasteners

There is this approach as used on L/hand drive Italias

Stuart.

 

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20210817_151954 - Copy.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Bfg said:

Thanks Stuart, ;) that's the sort of thing I had loitering around in the back of my mind.   I'm sure my local trimmer would be capable of doing similar for Katie.  

Woolies again do heel pad materials https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/category/85/heel-pad

Stuart.

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My carpets came from the TR shop, a rubber heel pad was provided to stick on to the carpet, I decided to leave it off until the carpet got worn, so I could stick it in the best place. Still waiting for any wear to show !

Bob.

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The original item is pt no 602221 and is available.  It was sewn in place.

 

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/pad-carpet-protection-rubber-602221.html

 

image.jpeg.2dfdab20f65e6a187491067dfabd4f79.jpeg

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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On 12/4/2021 at 11:29 PM, Bfg said:

Next,  I needed to recreate the top of this rear section ..the bit I'd cut-off.  I opted to straighten out / redress the original and tack-weld over Tommy's cuts, because I wanted this part's curves and hole for the gear-change rubber and also the original transition shape ..from rising up from the prop-shaft tunnel to leveling off over the gearbox.  . . . 

P1400605s.JPG.22bdc1917af520bba5c6ff2a646194d2.JPG    P1400607s.JPG.990dd5d0660629ea6bc1ad2a3eb585b7.JPG

 

moving on . .

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^ I needed to redefine the size, curvature and position of the gear-change gaiter

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^ Looking more like a piece of medieval armour than part of a TR4A ! ?   But now ..at last, I was close to where I would started, had I modified this cover without Tommy's help..  

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^ the gaiter centralised with the gear-change mechanism, and the top part of this now positioning lower to clear the dashboard support / H-frame.

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^ I shaped a little more clearance around the overdrive's solenoid, and then above that the cover has to taper in quite sharply to get under the H-frame. The gear-change extension's anti-vibration strap had previously worn through both the gaiter and the old fibreglass cover, so this time I smoothed the corners off.

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^ raw materials, from the back of a boiler, relieved from the skip  ..Put to good use I thought.

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^ I'm slowly but surely getting there.   My hope is still to not use the H-frame, but if scuttle shake is pronounced and otherwise unable to be resolved.. then I need to know that I can fit it.

There is still the bulge over the speedo cable to make, and these flanges need a few repairs around their bolt holes.. but for the time being I'll move on with the front section of the is cover to bring its height down to match. . .

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That's it from sunny Ipswich this morning,  Have a good'n.

Pete

 

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Hi Pete, just in case you don’t know or anyone else for that matter. Be careful of the fumes when welding galvanised steel sheet.

You are doing a grand job, keep cracking on.

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2 hours ago, Ian Vincent said:

Why wouldn't you keep the H frame?  Surely anything which helps limit scuttle shake is a good thing and the H frame ties the floor to the dash.  I'd be looking at ways to stiffen it, not remove it.

Rgds Ian

+1

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Thanks Gents, it's an interesting task insomuch as I haven't done sheet metal bashing for a long time, but aside from it taking me an age to do very little (my being pretty **** at welding thin stuff like panels) - I'm happy with the way things are pulling together. 

5 hours ago, Ian Vincent said:

Why wouldn't you keep the H frame?  Surely anything which helps limit scuttle shake is a good thing and the H frame ties the floor to the dash.  I'd be looking at ways to stiffen it, not remove it.

Rgds Ian

Four fold answer..  the first is that my size makes it difficult to get in an out of the car, in particular getting my knee around the steering wheel, where of course the H-frame is just in the wrong place.  The RHD side of the H-frame is almost vertical, but if it sloped in as it does on the LHS  then things would be much easier.  I restored a LHD TR4 in the mid-90's and, admittedly I was quite a bit more agile then, but I didn't notice the H-frame being anywhere nearly as intrusive. 

Secondly, when just cruising along, I find it more comfortable to not have my leg against a metal column ..padded or otherwise.  Indeed resting my leg against the smoothly contoured and carpeted tunnel, with felt underlay, is really quite comfortable. And because my foot can also turn onto its side ..that too is more comfortable than where there is not enough length (..for me) and no clutch foot-rest. 

Thirdly, I find the H-frame with its squarish black box for the gear-change really very  ugly.  My first TR was a little black TR3 with red carpets ..and I still much prefer the carpeted cover and the visual expanse down into the foot-wells. Although the side-screen cars are a few inches narrower, without the H-frame they look and, so perhaps psychologically, feel more spacious down-below the dashboard.

And fourthly, I had my TR3 when living and working in Virginia.  It was my only car and so my daily driver. And admittedly the roads, including the rat race around Washington DC., down to where I lived in Annapolis were hardly testing to a sports car's handling, but I don't recall having issues with scuttle shake.  Katie's  gearbox came out in March, when I replaced the clutch & its release mechanism.  At that time I noted that both the bolts, attaching the H-frame to the dashboard, were very loose.  Indeed, the nut off one was found under the driver's carpet ..so I guess its lateral bracing wasn't all that it might have been !  This is from when I bought the car.  Since refitting the gearbox I have used the car only without  the H-frame in place.  Admittedly, due to circumstances, not nearly as much as I'd hoped ..but still including a few spirited drives around Suffolk's rural countryside, and three hour motorway jaunts (to and from Wolverhampton).  This car's scuttle shake is imo barely noticeable, even after the chassis swap and I had a set of round wheels on her..  On the other hand., my former Scimitar SE6A, a car which was in very good condition and with an excellent galvanised chassis, the scuttle shake was positively annoying.  

So I'll suck it and see.  Just because the Press like to pick up on a particular fault, doesn't it mean there is a real issue for 'Mr Joe Average' driver.  Personally I don't believe everything I read.   I'm sure scuttle shake would be evident to those who tend to drive fast, take the car closer to the limits of its handling, &/or on poor road surfaces.  But that again doesn't mean it's such a big deal to me.  Like anything else it's a compromise.  And to me that comes down to ; the four negative points I mentioned (and that I felt the need to do something about) --v-- something that I've not yet regarded as an issue. 

I am however leaving my options open, by remodeling this TR3 gearbox cover to fit under the H-frame.  Had I not done so.. its fitting would have been done and forgotten about a week ago.   :rolleyes:

Just my opinion you understand.

Pete

 

Edited by Bfg
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Today I didn't get a lot done, but still a little progress in the right direction is better than things going backwards ;) . . .

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^ I started by cutting the RHS of the forward section, in much the same way as I've done on the LHS.,  and then you'll spot some vertical cuts too.  There is method in the madness, although you may have to be just a little crazy to see it !   :blink:

The second photo is the bulge over the starter motor, which I had reworked before, but wasn't happy with.   I'd like a little more width between the clutch pedal and this panel, and that would only be possible if I cut and reworked it again. . .

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^ Oh my..  this was taking things to another level.  I've cut and twisted the steel to follow parallel to the bellhousing's starter bendix bulge.  This give me a 2" wide step / footrest just about the clutch pedal height, and then a second narrower step in from the flange.  The latter I may add to (width wise) with a bolted-on clutch footrest for my foot down alongside the pedal (below). . .

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My size 12's now have an inch more width.  Not as much as I'd like, but still it is better (..for me) than it was. 

BFG   ( ..Big footed gxxxx ?  :ph34r: )

 

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17 minutes ago, trchris said:

Hi Pete 

Could you now the gearbox cover is metal fabricate a top section of the H frame so it  fixes to the dash and top of the cover? so in effect the cover becomes the "legs"

Chris

Yes that would be a possibility and less intrusive than the H-frame.  Thanks. 

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Nice solution for a footrest.   Triumph did it with a simple rubber faced bracket that screwed to the cardboard tunnel on Spitfire and GT6.   That was after the dip switch moved up to the steering column 
Pt no 613362  here.   Bottom of picture.

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Might be a step too far and impractical Pete but any scope to dog leg the pedal(s) to the right by 1-2" to give your left foot more room as it is you might end up ridding the clutch.

Andy

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