And so it begins.....

[ntc]

14 minutes ago, stuart said:

The type 3 is also better at coping with different offset wheels which is what its designed for.

TBH Im not a huge fan of tube shocks, the setup needs to be very well matched and thought out to work properly, I prefer uprated or adjustable levers

Stuart.

Nope Racetorations setup all day long 

[ed_h]

I never properly understood the problem that tube conversions were trying to solve.

Ed

[Mk2 Chopper]

1 hour ago, ed_h said:

I never properly understood the problem that tube conversions were trying to solve.

Ed

Good point.

Gareth

[saffrontr]

Reduction in tail end squat and camber changes are what tube conversions achieve. Have a read through the period articles such as the abstract from the Motor one below.

Derek

[JohnC]

I have a Revington setup, but I had custom-made shocks made up to ensure full travel. They took a bit of experimenting  to get the right settings as well. I'm now very happy with the outcome, but TBH I do wonder if I could have achieved the same outcome with refurbished lever shocks and a poly bush upgrade (which I did at the same time).

John

[ed_h]

10 hours ago, saffrontr said:

Reduction in tail end squat and camber changes are what tube conversions achieve.

 

If a conversion attaches to the trailing arm in the same place as the levers did, then it appears that it would be mechanically equivalent to the lever setup as far as damping goes.  I can't see how camber or squat would change at all.

What am i missing?

Ed

Edited August 1, 2021 by ed_h

[Mike C]

6 hours ago, ed_h said:

If a conversion attaches to the trailing arm in the same place as the levers did, then it appears that it would be mechanically equivalent to the lever setup as far as damping goes.  I can't see how camber or squat would change at all.

What am i missing?

Ed

The telescopic shocks can be set to have a higher force to   resist the downward squat than the original lever shocks? I've never had lever shocks  so I don't know their settings or if they're adjustable.

[ed_h]

1 hour ago, Mike C said:

The telescopic shocks can be set to have a higher force to   resist the downward squat than the original lever shocks? I've never had lever shocks  so I don't know their settings or if they're adjustable.

Lever shocks can be adjusted by valving and by fluid viscosity.

But again, if the damping force is the same, and applied at the same point, i dont see how tube shocks can affect squat or camber.

Ed

[Bfg]

If I were to speculate ; the lever arm operates through an arc, and so both the force of pressure (dependent on lever arm varying from 90-deg) and also the linear speed of travel would vary (rather like a piston slowing as a crankshaft nears TDC).. therefore the rate of damping would vary throughout the stroke (suspension travel).  Quite possibly near the extremes of suspension travel - the damping would be noticeably reduced, and practically non existent with very tired lever-arm units.  Conversely the damping-rate of a (straight) tube unit can (for all practical purposes) be linear ..if so required.

Tube dampers also have a long (piston) travel and so its damping ought to be more finely tuned and possibly designed to be progressive through the range.  

I gather also that tube dampers are often bought as quickly-adjustable for load conditions.  Although the spring rate remains the same, unless a coil-over-shock unit is adjusted (as on a motorcycle), it might make a huge difference to (conveniently) adjust from a solo-driving setting to that better suited for the weight of a passenger & luggage, or when a rocking-horse trailer is towed.  Similarly such adjustment would make a difference in the comfort -v- handling compromise.  Long distance touring for example across the continent may warrant less harsh damping, but then for spirited driving through the Dolomite mountains or Alps.. it would be advantageous to better control / tighten up things a bit.  Likewise for different road surfaces &/or race tracks or rally sections.

Again adjustments may be used to compensate for extremes in working temperature &/or air pressure, ie., from northern Europe to northern Italy (..or from Montana down to Texas,  etc., etc.)

Of course, most of these aspects would barely be noticed by those who drive their cherished car 'sensibly'  &/or most often find themselves in urban-cycle / undemanding road environments.   

Pete.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Bfg

[astontr6]

19 hours ago, ed_h said:

If a conversion attaches to the trailing arm in the same place as the levers did, then it appears that it would be mechanically equivalent to the lever setup as far as damping goes.  I can't see how camber or squat would change at all.

What am i missing?

Ed

The standard springs get compressed by the whine up from the GKN drive shafts. The standard springs are too soft. BL fitted at least 4 different spring rates, it may be even more? in an attempt to cure squat! SAH the master tuners of BL cars, recommended  changing the rear springs to 425lbs rating. I have them but it was not 100%. It was not until I went over to Limora CV drive shafts that it disappeared completely along with spline lock up.

Bruce.

[InfinityJon]

Someone talk to me about Rimmers gearboxes and overdrive units. Want a 76 with J overdrive. 1500 sheets inc vat seems too good to be true. What we saying?  Looking to pull the trigger in February. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by InfinityJon

[PodOne]

19 hours ago, InfinityJon said:

Someone talk to me about Rimmers gearboxes and overdrive units. Want a 76 with J overdrive. 1500 sheets inc vat seems too good to be true. What we saying?  Looking to pull the trigger in February. 

I'd forget Rimmers if the rest of there QC/part quality is anything to go by for £1500 minus profit margin and they not perhaps offering a sorted box with the usual mods to improve longevity. Try Rich; "rcrewread" on here he had some boxes/OD for sale a while ago no connection but happy with other parts from him in the past and a nice guy to deal with.

In the end you get what you pay for.

Andy

[rcreweread]

1 hour ago, PodOne said:

I'd forget Rimmers if the rest of there QC/part quality is anything to go by for £1500 minus profit margin and they not perhaps offering a sorted box with the usual mods to improve longevity. Try Rich; "rcrewread" on here he had some boxes/OD for sale a while ago no connection but happy with other parts from him in the past and a nice guy to deal with.

In the end you get what you pay for.

Andy

Andy - thanks for giving the nod to Jon about my gearboxes - we've already been in touch. However to set the record straight, I've stopped doing the gearboxes and diffs ( I've got a couple of rebuilt 4A diffs left and some exchanged TR6 units for rebuild which I would consider selling as is if anyone is interested in core units) but would happily recommend the Coxes at Pete Cox Sports Cars - other companies such as ORS, Hardy Engineering, Mike Papworth etc are all experienced rebuilders who I'm sure do a good job as well, although I have no direct experience with them.  

Just to touch on the Rimmers offer - as I understand it, this is for a bog standard unit, with no clutch crossshaft and bearings, and none of the commonly fitted upgrades such as 3 bearing laygears, steel bushes, uprated OD accumulators/pressures and cone clutches and crosspinned crossshafts etc ( difficult when there isn't one!!), plus there is a large deposit required which requires you to exchange precisely like for like, and if you don't, there is the potential for hold backs from the deposit, the extent of which I don't know, but suspect they won't be insignificant. Just be aware of exactly what is and isn't included and if it was me, I'd want to know who rebuilt and tested the OD unit.

Just a few thoughts

Cheers Rich

 

[astontr6]

On 8/1/2021 at 11:54 PM, Mike C said:

The telescopic shocks can be set to have a higher force to   resist the downward squat than the original lever shocks? I've never had lever shocks  so I don't know their settings or if they're adjustable.

My experience with lever shocks was very bad 6 sets under BL warranty? None lasted more than a month or so. They failed through leaking. I then went for Revington conversion with adjustable Spax shocks, first set lasted over 40 years!!! I also fitted harder springs that got rid of the squatting. Armstrong was one of my customers when I worked for Coopers. I went to the Armstrong factory a number of times and there was always bin loads of there shocks coming in through there GI for reconditioning. Not a very good advert? 

Bruce.

[stuart]

1 hour ago, astontr6 said:

My experience with lever shocks was very bad 6 sets under BL warranty? None lasted more than a month or so. They failed through leaking. I then went for Revington conversion with adjustable Spax shocks, first set lasted over 40 years!!! I also fitted harder springs that got rid of the squatting. Armstrong was one of my customers when I worked for Coopers. I went to the Armstrong factory a number of times and there was always bin loads of there shocks coming in through there GI for reconditioning. Not a very good advert? 

Bruce.

Which is why I have mine reconditioned properly by Stevsons https://www.stevsonmotors.co.uk/services/shock-absorber-servicing/

Stuart.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

2 hours ago, astontr6 said:

My experience with lever shocks was very bad 6 sets under BL warranty? None lasted more than a month or so. They failed through leaking. I then went for Revington conversion with adjustable Spax shocks, first set lasted over 40 years!!! I also fitted harder springs that got rid of the squatting. Armstrong was one of my customers when I worked for Coopers. I went to the Armstrong factory a number of times and there was always bin loads of there shocks coming in through there GI for reconditioning. Not a very good advert? 

Bruce.

An Armstrong recon lever arm unit involved a new pressure die cast body every time.   Not a top up, new seals, valve tweak and a coat of paint.   Clearly Armstrong considered the body wore internally where the pistons worked.   Armstrong tried to command their market by buying back all the old core they could to keep the units out of the steam clean and repaint 15 bob re conditioners, who basically undermined the public view and trust in Armstrong shock absorbers by supplying sub standard product.

 As one who bought recon units for exchange service we stuck with a reconditioner that we had fewest returns for, not regardless of price but based on service and reliability.   In London we had a good quality control system called  the carriage office that oversaw the lever arm shocks on London taxi cabs and all other details of vehicle safety.   Done to taxi spec was a good starting point.

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[InfinityJon]

Gearbox and OD now up with Pete Cox. 
Let them sort the shrapnel from the oil!

[astontr6]

On 8/1/2021 at 11:54 PM, Mike C said:

The telescopic shocks can be set to have a higher force to   resist the downward squat than the original lever shocks? I've never had lever shocks  so I don't know their settings or if they're adjustable.

+1

I bought my TR6 new I had 6 sets of lever type under warranty? They all started leaking after a month or so and the bodies were made of monkey metal not a good commination in my view ! My Spax with CTM mounts. The shocks lasted over 35 years IMHO you will never get that from levers.

Bruce.

[stuart]

36 minutes ago, astontr6 said:

I bought my TR6 new I had 6 sets of lever type under warranty? They all started leaking after a month or so and the bodies were made of monkey metal not a good commination in my view ! My Spax with CTM mounts. The shocks lasted over 35 years IMHO you will never get that from levers.

Bruce.

27 and counting on the uprated levers on my 4a thanks.

Stuart.

[boxofbits]

On 8/1/2021 at 11:54 PM, Mike C said:

The telescopic shocks can be set to have a higher force to   resist the downward squat than the original lever shocks? I've never had lever shocks  so I don't know their settings or if they're adjustable.

Shock absorbers mostly should only work in rebound, and don’t normally overcome the spring. Springs should control squat, and the damper adjusted to control the rebound afaik. I’ve not come across a damper that affects camber only in as far as suspension travel? My lever arm dampers were refitted when I restored it about 1997,  don’t leak and are still working well.

Kevin

Edited January 18, 2022 by boxofbits

[harrytr5]

I had the shock inside coil for around six years and when servicing noticed hairline cracks around the top of the spring bridge I was informed you have set up the shocks too hard. I know my car and always on the soft setting. Pulled it all out and welded up the cracks and went back to lever arms. First the 25% uprated new ones then rebuilt originals by Steveson 17% and have not looked back. Well happy.

Regards Harry TR5N  (Nutter)

[astontr6]

On 7/31/2021 at 9:33 PM, ed_h said:

I never properly understood the problem that tube conversions were trying to solve.

Ed

They did not last very long and the bodies ere made of monkey metal??

Bruce.

[InfinityJon]

Vacuum lines

if I have my engine with triple Webber’s, electronic Megajolt ingnition on a trigger wheel and electric fuel pump, do I need a vacuum line in the inlet manifold?  

[john.r.davies]

Megajolt includes an optional  inlet vacuum input that can adjust the timing map on the fly.     If you don't have a sensor you can add it. and as ignition really, really needs that advance with speed, it's wasted if you don't.

JOhn

[InfinityJon]

48 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

Megajolt includes an optional  inlet vacuum input that can adjust the timing map on the fly.     If you don't have a sensor you can add it. and as ignition really, really needs that advance with speed, it's wasted if you don't.

JOhn

I assumed that the electronic tps did that.