Daimler 2.5 engine into TR4 1962

[MIKE*PAPWORTH*COV]

anyone got info of how to do it and what's involved ?? , thanks , Mike Papworth 07768 775170

[RogerH]

Hi Mike,

I think John Hannah from the North London Group has done this,

Give the group leader a call

 

Roger

[Motorsport Mickey]

Yep... John Hanna raced his TR with the Daimler engine and should give good advice on what's to be done. Amongst that advice make sure that replacing/strengthening the driveline, particularly the gearbox is included. John used to munch them up and burn off 3rd gear synchromeshes as I remember, the Daimler torque being much too robust for the standard TR gearbox...I'm not sure how the rear axle fared.

Mick Richards 

[Hamish]

I have sent John an email to link to this thread so hopefully he can share his wisdom.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

2 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Yep... John Hanna raced his TR with the Daimler engine and should give good advice on what's to be done. Amongst that advice make sure that replacing/strengthening the driveline, particularly the gearbox is included. John used to munch them up and burn off 3rd gear synchromeshes as I remember, the Daimler torque being much too robust for the standard TR gearbox...I'm not sure how the rear axle fared.

Mick Richards 

I think I have read an article about fitting an MX5 gearbox in a TR4A……    Plus there is a kit to fit a Beefy rear diff and axle from a rice burner.

Can you Throw it in with the auto Mike?    Be even better if you get the power steering to work too.   Suit us oldies with weak arms and legs.

[Hamish]

I think the sp250 chassis, od gearbox and back axle are very similar to our Tr’s

 

Edited February 24 by Hamish

[Rob Salisbury]

I think those big SU's will have to go in favour of something like a Holly, and the dynamo may have to move somewhere else, ......or chop a darn big hole in the bonnet for all three!!.          Looks like an exciting project, though are DVLA a bit tricky about these sort of engine swaps these days?                                                                                                       Cheers Rob

[Chilliman]

A nice period conversion, one of our North Devon members (unfortunately now deceased) did this a few years ago.

[Hamish]

A great picture gallery of a converted car here

https://carsonline.bonhams.com/en/listings/triumph/tr4/ae6c1b01-b24c-4aec-b2a9-502d501d2fab?open=true

[Malbaby]

A "HEMI" in a TR..

[iain]

12 hours ago, Hamish said:

A great picture gallery of a converted car here

https://carsonline.bonhams.com/en/listings/triumph/tr4/ae6c1b01-b24c-4aec-b2a9-502d501d2fab?open=true

This is the car John refers too. Beautifully converted but I believe at no considerable expense.

[Motorsport Mickey]

30 minutes ago, iain said:

This is the car John refers too. Beautifully converted but I believe at no considerable expense.

Just to clarify Iain, did you mean "at no considerable expense". or was there a typo there and it should have said "inconsiderable expense" ? It doesn't look like a conversion that didn't cost a lot !

Mick Richards

[Chilliman]

It was eye wateringly expensive Mick.

[harrytr5]

That link does not open for me.

Regards Harry

[stuart]

21 hours ago, Rob Salisbury said:

I think those big SU's will have to go in favour of something like a Holly, and the dynamo may have to move somewhere else, ......or chop a darn big hole in the bonnet for all three!!.          Looks like an exciting project, though are DVLA a bit tricky about these sort of engine swaps these days?                                                                                                       Cheers Rob

Nope it fits under a standard bonnet.

Stuart.

[Colin Symonds]

My favourite British car engine, my one big motoring regret was selling my SP250.

[Drewmotty]

Lovely to drive….what the TR5 should have been. 

[iain]

My grammatical error MIck, eye watering considering what it subsequently sold for.

https://carsonline.bonhams.com/en/listings/triumph/tr4-v8/06a869be-2115-409e-b473-9c7c66029578

Unfortunately it would appear that a beautiful conversion is just that and the market somewhat reluctant to view it positively. 

Edited February 25 by iain

[Chilliman]

2 hours ago, Drewmotty said:

Lovely to drive….what the TR5 should have been. 

 

1 hour ago, iain said:

Unfortunately it would appear that a beautiful conversion is just that and the market somewhat reluctant to view it positively. 

Yup, agree with both.

[hannadaimlerv8]

Hi old friends and new. Thanks for the email Hamish. Only just seen it. Been spraying the TR7 which I will be campaigning in the sprint/hillclimb championship this season. Probably not going to be up and running until halfway through.
Hopefully the following information regarding the Daimler conversion will be helpful. My conversion was on a TR3 of course.
1. Major modification was that a serious amount of the bulkhead had to be removed and re fabricated to accommodate the engine.

2. If you are using a TR gearbox you will need to make up a sandwich plate to bolt it to the engine. Be careful not to use bolts which are too long as one will impact on one of the engine core plugs. If you use a TR gearbox you will have to cut out a serious amount of the bell housing to accommodate the starter motor. If you use a Daimler gearbox I don’t know what modifications are necessary to mount it. 
Spirited driving will, as Mick says, munch the TR gearbox. I used unmodified TR6 ones if possible. I did get through a lot. By only using half the mounting bolts and  with no trim in the racer I could change the box in about ninety minutes. Mick used to buy my munched ones. 

3. You will need to modify the front engine plate to bolt onto engine mounts. That will require careful fabrication to ensure whatever gearbox you use locates correctly.

4. The steering column will probably require at least one extra universal joint to get around the engine/cylinder head. The TR3 required two.

5. I used modified Daimler flexible exhaust downpipes to avoid the steering column and link up with the exhaust system. 
 

I will give you a ring Mike Papworth but I am sure you guys will be interested as well. 

it’s a great conversion. Shame Triumph didn’t do it. I broke the clutch in the 1970s at Prescott and drove it the 80 miles home only using top gear, even pulling away from standstill. It was a ‘standard’  engine with massive torque.

it was in fact the first Daimler 2.5 V8 prototype engine built, undoubtedly to the highest standard only used for bench testing. Its engine number was EXPD 3. I believe the experimental engines one and two were mock ups. It was obviously an important engine and I sold it to a Daimler club member for £500, about ten times the value of a standard engine in 1979. I wonder where it is now? I do regret making that backward step but I couldn’t run the car for points in the TR racing championship and the money financed a proper racer. Those of you who remember it, or even drove it, at the Donington National in about 1978 might recall it was a bit rough to say the least and not really up to the racing miles I subjected it to. Very happy memories though. 
 

John

 

[Nigel C]

On 2/24/2024 at 2:24 PM, Hamish said:

I think the sp250 chassis, od gearbox and back axle are very similar to our Tr’s

 

I seem to remember the rear axles were weak on the SP250's? I know one will fit in a Peerless too!

 

[Hamish]

Thanks John that great info to share with us all.

hope to see you in a paddock somewhere this year for a proper catch up

[Lebro]

I remember seeing it at Donington in the mid 70's

Bob

 

[Dic Doretti]

          I fitted a Daimler engine to a TR2 in the 1980s, the body was off which helped. I used a Dolomite Sprint gearbox which is basically a TR gearbox with a sandwich plate and longer input shaft but it was not really strong enough for the torque of the Daimler engine. If you can find a Jaguar 0/D gearbox with the rare Daimler bellhousing it is perfect for the job. More recently I fitted the Daimler engine to a Swallow Doretti which easier as it is slightly wider, about the same as a TR4, in both cases I used rack and pinion steering, a remote oil filter and Daimler Dart exhaust manifolds. The sump was  a cut down Daimler saloon sump, the Daimler Dart sump doesn't fit the saloon block and the dip stick is a fiddle, have just fitted an Audi A2 dip stick which works well.

           The TR went to the south of France and the Doretti went to Le Mans a couple of times and did the TR Isles Tour to Shetland. It was a great conversion, the Doretti was sold to Phil Tucker who knows a few things about TRs. I am currently driving around in another Daimler engined Doretti which will be at the International W/E in June.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Cheers Richard

Edited February 26 by Dic Doretti
spelling

[MIKE*PAPWORTH*COV]

On 2/25/2024 at 7:40 PM, hannadaimlerv8 said:

Hi old friends and new. Thanks for the email Hamish. Only just seen it. Been spraying the TR7 which I will be campaigning in the sprint/hillclimb championship this season. Probably not going to be up and running until halfway through.
Hopefully the following information regarding the Daimler conversion will be helpful. My conversion was on a TR3 of course.
1. Major modification was that a serious amount of the bulkhead had to be removed and re fabricated to accommodate the engine.

2. If you are using a TR gearbox you will need to make up a sandwich plate to bolt it to the engine. Be careful not to use bolts which are too long as one will impact on one of the engine core plugs. If you use a TR gearbox you will have to cut out a serious amount of the bell housing to accommodate the starter motor. If you use a Daimler gearbox I don’t know what modifications are necessary to mount it. 
Spirited driving will, as Mick says, munch the TR gearbox. I used unmodified TR6 ones if possible. I did get through a lot. By only using half the mounting bolts and  with no trim in the racer I could change the box in about ninety minutes. Mick used to buy my munched ones. 

3. You will need to modify the front engine plate to bolt onto engine mounts. That will require careful fabrication to ensure whatever gearbox you use locates correctly.

4. The steering column will probably require at least one extra universal joint to get around the engine/cylinder head. The TR3 required two.

5. I used modified Daimler flexible exhaust downpipes to avoid the steering column and link up with the exhaust system. 
 

I will give you a ring Mike Papworth but I am sure you guys will be interested as well. 

it’s a great conversion. Shame Triumph didn’t do it. I broke the clutch in the 1970s at Prescott and drove it the 80 miles home only using top gear, even pulling away from standstill. It was a ‘standard’  engine with massive torque.

it was in fact the first Daimler 2.5 V8 prototype engine built, undoubtedly to the highest standard only used for bench testing. Its engine number was EXPD 3. I believe the experimental engines one and two were mock ups. It was obviously an important engine and I sold it to a Daimler club member for £500, about ten times the value of a standard engine in 1979. I wonder where it is now? I do regret making that backward step but I couldn’t run the car for points in the TR racing championship and the money financed a proper racer. Those of you who remember it, or even drove it, at the Donington National in about 1978 might recall it was a bit rough to say the least and not really up to the racing miles I subjected it to. Very happy memories though. 
 

John

 

Hello John thank you so much for your input i think I may leave this conversion and sell on the engine