iain

Well there's a project for you Peter, best lobby this lot to review this report and update using the latest data available data.

Hi Peter the key reference document , which I guess you disagree with the conclusions of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/537616/SACN_Vitamin_D_and_Health_report.pdf is enlightening Iain

This makes for interesting reading. https://cks.nice.org.uk/vitamin-d-deficiency-in-adults-treatment-and-prevention#!scenario:1 Iain

Pm sent ...using the PDF version, so should be Ok on the one !

Hi Kev......10 Mins! You must be an expert :-) I’ve not solved Tuesdays, which is still bugging me. Can t find the yyyw? All good fun. Iain Ps HRCR are doing one too......also great fun?

Happy Birthday Diane, Iain

Peter enjoying this discussion and admit its resurrecting a few grey cells from slumber! Have you challenged the PD Society regarding the science? They independently fund raise for their own trials, this could be the route to answering this important question. Iatrogenic is interventional? That is a medics intervention causing the problem. ( this can happen but is most unlikely, most newly diagnosed PD patients are Idiopathic). Unless you can prove that D3 deficiency is the trigger? Iain

Hi Rod, nice to see you (and the cars) Iain

Peter I am not really sure i understand where your argument is. Two companies pull the plug in Alzheimers research after spending millions.........OK so they got no where. It happens all the time in NCE development. Why the conspiracy theory? If D3 works then i am sure every respected PD specialists globally would be using it. Its cheap its relatively safe so whats not to like. I don't see any evidence of efficacy on PD Motor symptoms only on the Non Motor symptoms. Is that correct? Iain

Peter I can not believe that you think that the vast numbers of independently thinking doctors and researchers in these serious disease areas are that constrained in their thinking or research by pharma.....really? I hope you are right in your prophecy that D3 is a solution however I don't share you scepticism over the industry's control of research. Having worked for getting close to 10 years in the development of an NCE for Parkinsons, and having a very personal interest in this disease as you know, i don't remember once coming across D3 as being a serious consideration. Now that is either massive myopia shown by researchers and charities working on Parkinsons or a reflection of a lack of belief in its benefits?

Happy Birthday John, hope its been as good as possible in the circumstances Iain

Hi Peter we are singing from the same hymn sheet. Its the dross that is the problem. If the physiological optimal range is so well defined why is not used as the gold standard for dosing? I.e Titrate to the optimal range. A meta analysis of the "quality" studies would therefore be useful? Or are the numbers too small to give any credibility too? I would have thought that the money grabbing American physicians would have taken this as very big opportunity to make money? Have they not? Very simple money, a test, your deficient in D3 take some of these, re test. The difficult then becomes the subjectivity of the result unless you have some objective clinical outcomes in well controlled studies. A Doctor treating patients will need this data to safe guard against mal practice. PS: Big (or little) Pharma does not decree what is the standard for drug testing.....you know that. There regulators been heavily involved for decades.

Ok it’s not a drug as it is usually produced In sufficient quantity by the body. But if you are going to assess the clinical efficacy of D3 as an “intervention or supplement” this should be done in a well design and controlled study. Agreed you need to measure what is important, both in terms of physiological parameters and more importantly clinical outcomes. There is no point on having loads on board if can’t be used or is laid down in tissue in a manner that is harmful. The Vit D that I purchased was very careful to state “not to exceed the recommended dosage”.That would be great if the manufacturer has even bothered to write a Patient Information Leaflet for their product! They of course hadn’t and neither does their website have such information. The great world of unregulated supplements/ drugs. I may be being pedantic but a career in the pharmaceutical industry has made me very sceptical of all drugs and potions which are proffered as the answer to all our ailments. Give me some high quality peer reviewed data and I’ll make an informed decision.

Bobs Bulbs........brilliant.

Hi Peter , there is no substitute for good data..........even the authors of this early study agree that Large Randomised Controlled Trials are required, so whilst you can argue whether D3 is a drug or not , the data at the moment is all rather insubstantial, that will be why the BNF and others are rightly being cautious. The anecdotal evidence certainly supports the hypothesis that D3 has a significant but as yet unquantified effect. Some large RCT’s would clearly help. For the time being, I’ll continue with D3 supplements and keep a keen eye out for positive (hopefully) data. We should be careful of recommending large doses as inadvertent calcification is to be avoided. It would appear that D3 exhibits a biphasic effect, too low a dose giving problems and too high a dose also giving problems. Iain