Wheel Bearing Failure

[peejay4A]

On the left of the picture is the remains of the left outer front wheel bearing on Eric. It let go about 10 miles south of St Malo on Saturday around 8:30 am. Thanks to slick work by Britannia Rescue I was home at 22:10 the same day - with a considerable fuel saving. 
 

The roller carrier has disintegrated which caused the rollers to bunch up and allow the wheel to move about on turns causing severe pad knock back. I was able to manoeuvre on and off the relay trucks and the ferry with great care.  No nasty noises but dangerous to continue. 
 

I’m meticulous about bearing adjustment so I think this failure is down to rubbish parts.  The bearings are less than 5000 miles old. 
 

I’ve fitted new on both sides and added the stub axle stiffening mod so we’ll see how that goes, notwithstanding the mucking about with shims that it entails. 
 

I’ll be checking them at least annually from now. 

[RogerH]

Hi Pete,

What make were your bearings.

 

I note on the Moss WebCat  that the outer bearing is £20  and the inner bearing is  £21  These are NTN Japan.

However the kit (both bearings) comes in at a miserly £12 - no manuf markings. Why sell rubbish

 

Roger

[glasgow4a]

Stub axle stiffening mod? please explain cheers Ian.

[MichaelH]

Front bearings wobble because the tightness is so uncontrolled

by adding a shimmed tube between inner and out bearings the use of a DTI ensures that the bearings and tube have a fixed measured end float

This means that the two bearings act as one with no wobble between thwm

Cost £50 ish plus the use of a DTI

Then get the best bearings which are expensive- like timkens

And you;ve saved a lot of hassle

You could always go for the new big stubb axles and hub kits

Or save money and go on worrying about your front berings

[badhuis]

2 hours ago, glasgow4a said:

Stub axle stiffening mod? please explain cheers Ian.

 

2 hours ago, MichaelH said:

by adding a shimmed tube between inner and out bearings the use of a DTI ensures that the bearings and tube have a fixed measured end float

 

Would also like to know about the stiffening mod. And what is a DTI?
Guess I am still lucky - as far as I know (owned for 28 years) my car still runs on its original bearings. 

[AndyR100]

An example supplier of the stiffening modification:  

https://www.triumphspecialtuning.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=40&product_id=87

DTI is Dial Test Indicator - used in this case to measure the amount of play.

…… Andy 

[Andy Moltu]

There have been some supply issues with Timken bearings over the past year or so.

[mikej]

I assume this stiffening mod is like the wheel bearing spacer fitted to Minis etc? If so then it seems well worth the effort.  Is this something we should air in TRA? 

MikeJ

[RogerH]

For decades the stub axle was happy. It was only when people took it to the extremes, or there about's, of handling that people had to do something.

In theory, tensioning the stubby will make it stiffer. But, where do you stop.

Roger

[iain]

53 minutes ago, mikej said:

I assume this stiffening mod is like the wheel bearing spacer fitted to Minis etc? If so then it seems well worth the effort.  Is this something we should air in TRA? 

MikeJ

This may well make an interesting article, however we need to be clear why this mod is needed. Is it because you are trying to avoid brake pad knock off due to stub axle flex at extreme cornering forces, rallying or racing? Or is just because it feels sensible, which as Roger implies is probably wholly unnecessary on a normal road car. Personally I’ve never induced this phenomenon……must try harder…..Not :-)

Revingtons website states why the system was developed and it certainly reads like it’s for those who race and rally ….hard.

Iain

[RogerH]

1 minute ago, iain said:

This may well make an interesting article, however we need to be clear why this mod is needed. Is it because you are trying to avoid brake pad knock off due to stub axle flex at extreme cornering forces, rallying or racing? Or is just because it feels sensible, which as Roger implies is probably wholly unnecessary on a normal road car. Personally I’ve never induced this phenomenon……must try harder…..Not :-)

Revingtons website states why the system was developed and it certainly reads like it’s for those who race and rally ….hard.

Iain

+1

[Tr4aJim]

Way back in the 70s I was driving my Mk1 Capri on the highway (around 60 mph) when the left front outer bearing failed. Luckily I was able to keep control and get it to the side of the road. The entire cage had disintegrated and the inner race “welded” itself to the stub axle. I had never driven the Capri over aggressively (well not so much), but about 2 years before I had upgraded the suspension to heavy duty components (shocks, bushings, Koni’s, heavier roll bar, wider wheels/tires, etc), but replaced the bearings with the stock Ford parts. I always suspected that the bearing failure was due to the increased stresses from those components. When I did the repairs, a mechanic I knew told me to make sure I used Timken bearings as they were the best. 
Several years ago when I rebuilt the front suspension on my TR4A, I was amazed (and concerned) at the difference in prices for wheel bearings at the various US and UK suppliers. I finally decided to pay more, and go with Timken.

Jim

[RogerH]

Just to be clear -ALL bearing manufacturers make different grades of quality for the same part number.

The number may havea special suffix for application

The part number is a reflection of the bearing size and the price runs along with the quality

So not only do you need a quality makers name but the correct quality for the application.  Do NOT buy cheap.

 

Roger

[trchris]

I'm with Roger don't go cheap, as another alternative than the usual suspects try a bearing specialist, I use Anglia Bearing Company in Boston (they have other units and do mail order) they exactly match original bearings of all kind's wheel/ gearbox etc high quality and a hell of a lot cheaper and they do seals although I don't think the front hub seal.

Chris

[Lebro]

My "go to" supplier of bearings is "Simply Bearings" They do mail order, & for any given part No. they list a range of qualities (& corresponding prices).

You can also look up the bearing you need by dimensions if you don't have a part No.

I made the mistake of buying a gearbox overhaul kit from Moss last year, the main bearings that came with it were Cr*p. Luckily when I complained I was sent proper ones FOC.

Bob

[monty]

We are back to this cheap rubbish parts topic again! If people stop buying this cheap stuff maybe it will disappear. These are good cars so spend the extra for a good quality name such as Timken from a bearing specialist. Too many inferior parts out there for our cars! 

 

[Malcolm Tatton]

Apparently Timkin no longer list the TR front bearings in their catalogue (according to the 'bearing specialist' that we use at work) and the numbers that I provided weren't recognised, so does anyone have the correct part numbers please?

[qkingston]

Hi Malcolm, I got these from Bearing King:

07100S/07210X Timken Tapered Roller Bearing 1x2x0.5910 inch (07100S/07210X Timken)

03062/03162 Timken Tapered Roller Bearing 15.875x41.275x14.288mm (03062/03162 Timken)

Also sold by Wych Bearings and others

Rgds

David

[Malcolm Tatton]

16 minutes ago, qkingston said:

Hi Malcolm, I got these from Bearing King:

07100S/07210X Timken Tapered Roller Bearing 1x2x0.5910 inch (07100S/07210X Timken)

03062/03162 Timken Tapered Roller Bearing 15.875x41.275x14.288mm (03062/03162 Timken)

Also sold by Wych Bearings and others

Rgds

David

Thanks very much.  I'll see what they say 

[Mick Forey]

My TR6 has always had brake pad knock-back so giving a long first push of the brake pedal after some good cornering and a rattling noise, often reflected off walls. I have tried all sorts of wheel bearings and adjustments but it never went away. However, earlier this year I bought one of the TR Enterprises kits through TRGB. An amazing difference, hard pedal no matter what you do with the car and no rattling noises.

I recommend this mod even if you have the smallest amount of pad knock-back.

Mick

[Steve Priest]

2 hours ago, Mick Forey said:

My TR6 has always had brake pad knock-back so giving a long first push of the brake pedal after some good cornering and a rattling noise, often reflected off walls. I have tried all sorts of wheel bearings and adjustments but it never went away. However, earlier this year I bought one of the TR Enterprises kits through TRGB. An amazing difference, hard pedal no matter what you do with the car and no rattling noises.

I recommend this mod even if you have the smallest amount of pad knock-back.

Mick

That's exactly my experience as well Mick.  Personally, I think the kit does very little to stiffen the stub axle.  Rather, it simply allows the free play to be set precisely.

Steve

Edited September 20, 2022 by Steve Priest

[monty]

4 hours ago, qkingston said:

Hi Malcolm, I got these from Bearing King:

07100S/07210X Timken Tapered Roller Bearing 1x2x0.5910 inch (07100S/07210X Timken)

03062/03162 Timken Tapered Roller Bearing 15.875x41.275x14.288mm (03062/03162 Timken)

Also sold by Wych Bearings and others

Rgds

David

Those are the ones I used a few years ago on a TR4.

[Andy Moltu]

Interesting that Bearing King also list the NTN equivalents. NTN are also listed in the word’s top 9 bearing manufacturers along with Timken.

 

[Andy Moltu]

16 hours ago, Steve Priest said:

That's exactly my experience as well Mick.  Personally, I think the kit does very little to stiffen the stub axle.  Rather, it simply allows the free play to be set precisely.

Steve

I agree.

There is nothing wrong with the stub axle. Play/pad knock if is a reflection of out of adjustment wheel bearings as a general rule. However over tightening is a recipe for bearing failure.

The anti knock off kits allow you to set the bearing end float accurately without the risk of over tightening the nut and overloading the bearing. 

[glasgow4a]

I used BRT Bearings part no BRT 298, These are NTN Bearings and available nationally, cheers Ian.