To Surry Top or Not To Surry Top?

[The_Doc]

Hi All

 

With my ongoing TR4A rebuild, I've been offered an 'original' surry top and the rear frame and roof are aluminium. What are the things I should look out for?

 

Yes it may cost me an arm and a leg, but what are peoples veiws on this; is a Surry top a definete must for a TR4/4A or does it not make a huge difference? Is it better to go without and simply be fully exposed to the wind? I'd appricate peoples thoughts on the different driving experiences; with an without.

 

Thanks

 

Adam

[littlejim]

My 4A came with the rear window, a hard top, and a clapped out Surrey soft top.

The hard top goes on for winter if Mrs LJ is going to be in for a ride.

For the rest of the time the no top, but the new Surrey is in the boot as insurance against sudden downpours. (Usually fairly predictable in Oz, where the predominant weather pattern comes in from the west and we get several days warning, every now and then the rule gets broken and it comes in from the east or north.)

Good idea over there. (rude Oz comment on UK weather deleted.)

Edited November 26, 2017 by littlejim

[TR 2100]

Hi Adam,

 

Way way back, I was a committed soft-top man. Didn't

even want the Italia I could have pursued.

 

Now that my 4 is a surrey top - I love it (although I do

have another softtop TR4 as an alternative!)

 

Aluminium hardtop section means it's from an early 4.

Later 4s and 4As had a steel hardtop. I don't know when

the change happened.

 

But - the 4A body width is slightly different between 4s

and 4As, to account for the slightly bulkier hood frame.

You need to check that the rear window frame (they were

ALL aluminium) is the same for 4s and 4As.

(Probably I should know the answer - but I don't!)

 

AlanR

[openroad]

Hi Adam, the surrey makes the cockpit less windy and more convivial for conversation, than the usual soft top.

Soft top is a bit windier, but that's what we expect when we drive out cars, but it is easier to put up when it rains....

Have fun,

Conrad.

[AndyR100]

I have a regular soft top on my 4..... I like the clean lines and the wonderfully elegant way the frame folds away.

The price for a hardtop is, in my view, crazy, so it has never entered my mind to change

...... Andy

[Motorsport Mickey]

"But - the 4A body width is slightly different between 4s

 

and 4As, to account for the slightly bulkier hood frame.

 

You need to check that the rear window frame (they were

 

ALL aluminium) is the same for 4s and 4As"

 

Alan

 

 

Yes Alan, there was only one sizing made for the Surrey Top and Rear Backlight (the frame which carries the glass), the width across the back is the same on TR4/4a/5 and 6 because we've seen TR6s even with the Rear Backlight and Surrey fitted and to my eye elegant they look too.

The studs for the rear backlight are screwed into the Rear Backlight frame and protrude down through the rear deck (where a soft top has been used the nuts for the rear frame of the soft top fitment need drilling out) and the wider cockpit achieved by the reduced width of the rear deck forward arms where they attach to the B post to accommodate the bulkier hoods fitted on TR4a and 5s, means the second stud back has nothing to pass through and so is removed.

 

Afterfitment of the Rear Backlight and a Surrey top or the Hardtop panel shouldn't be too difficult but of course there will be a degree (sometime lots) of adjusting all the movable items to get an acceptable fit.

 

Adam,

 

A good tip ALWAYS try the Search function box at the top of the page, it contains the accumulated knowledge of thousands of TR owners from years back. Few are the enquiries that haven't been covered before in GREAT detail and you will miss out if you don't scan the pages, often questions are asked and answered where I've thought "...Oh yeah, hadn't thought of that" so don't miss out.

 

Here's the link to the pages (4) which turn up when you type "Surrey" into the search box showing over 80 replies many of which discuss how to fit one and the benefits or otherwise against the soft top. You'll need to dissect the answers but you'll gain all the knowledge there whilst reading them.

 

Mick Richards

 

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&andor_type=&sid=d0c045fde208cc257c99d78ea865bac1&search_app_filters[forums][sortKey]=date&search_app_filters[forums][sortKey]=date&search_term=Surrey&search_app=forums

[RogerH]

Hi Adam,

the fixed rear screen keeps the wind vortexs under control so it is less blowy with than without.

 

Also, if it is raining then you stay reasonably dry at speeds over 30mph (don;t slow down).

 

Luggage capacity on the rear seat is greatly improved. The 4A hood frame is a little more bulky than the TR4 and there is no frame with the surrey.

 

When parked up a simple umbrella keeps the inside dry/shaded. With the convertible you need either the hood up on the tonneau. Umbrella much more trendy.

 

They are not all Ali. Some where done in sheet steel.

 

Cost is relative. How much for a clutch change in a garage or an engine rebuild.

 

If it is available go for it.

 

Roger

[rcreweread]

Roger

 

When you say "some were done in sheet steel", are you talking about the backlight? I know the roof panel was both alloy ( earlyish TR4s ) and steel, but I've never come across a non alloy backlight - if they do exist, was this a ST part or some other manufacturer? Anyone got a photo of a steel one ( the insides)?

 

Always wondered and this thread seems like a good opportunity to add to the knowledge base in the old brain cells before they are gone for good!

 

Cheers

Rich

[littlejim]

Roger

 

When you say "some were done in sheet steel", are you talking about the backlight? I know the roof panel was both alloy ( earlyish TR4s ) and steel, but I've never come across a non alloy backlight - if they do exist, was this a ST part or some other manufacturer? Anyone got a photo of a steel one ( the insides)?

 

Always wondered and this thread seems like a good opportunity to add to the knowledge base in the old brain cells before they are gone for good!

 

Cheers

Rich

The roof itself is steel for the 4A.*

The 'backwindow' bit is alloy and glass.

* Few pushups now and then in summer helps when the time comes to fit it.

[RogerH]

Hi Rich,

a friend in the London group has a steel rear frame. I was amazed when I saw it.

It looks like an ST part. With the various cloths and covers on you can't tell it apart form an ali frame.

 

Haven't clue as to how many were made, but made they were.

 

Roger

[TR 2100]

a friend in the London group has a steel rear frame.

I was amazed when I saw it. It looks like an ST part.

Haven't clue as to how many were made, but made they were.

Roger

New one on me - I stand corrected.

 

But Roger - what about the width of the rear frame?

 

AlanR

[RogerH]

Hi Alan,

Mick has replied regarding the frame width in post #6

There is only one frame size. The outside width of the car at the rear deck forward sections is the same for 4 and 4a. The frame sits on this OK.

 

Seeing this frame made of sheet steel was an eye opening and gave me thoughts of 'they can be remade'.

 

I know somebody on here fabricated one form sheet Ali a couple of years back and there was talk of remaking them.

Fabricating in steel is a little easier and possibly stronger - Hmmm, any mileage in it.

 

Roger

Edited November 26, 2017 by RogerH

[4Mal]

We use the Surrey Hardtop most of the year and it's great. Good for a bit of security as well.

 

Contrary to popular belief, the hardtop section does come off for part of the year and I get a bit of fresh air

[Geko]

If money is an issue, buy a repro from Honeybourne for one fifth of the price of an original

[Motorsport Mickey]

If money is an issue, buy a repro from Honeybourne for one fifth of the price of an original

 

Yep, that's one of the options discussed that you'll find in the search box finds in the link I've posted "Gold for the price of Silver" (nicked that).

 

Mick Richards

[ianc]

As with fitting a hardtop to a sidescreen TR, the fixed backlight and tin lid (whether alloy or steel) does make the TR4 onwards somewhat less flexible, which is a good thing.

Ian Cornish

[Malbaby]

Yes to surrey tops versus soft tops.

Is it only going to cost you one arm and a leg, or two?

[Tom Fremont]

The alloy lid kit originally furnished with these is very close in overall weight to the soft top assembly ( on a TR5/6 - dunno about the 4 ) - 7-9 lbs heavier only.

 

I reckon the cockpit buffeting at highway speeds is reduced ~ 70% in topless mode with side windows up. This enables doing lotsa miles without being slapped silly. I must have done 120K in mine since converting them.

 

I think they are still a bargain at prevailing prices ( but I would never again be satisfied without one, and keep a complete spare in case an irresistible example without one comes available ). Since I believe TR values will appreciate rapidly, and the Michelotti cars especially, and the "Surrey" fitted ones most of all you can't go wrong spending 4-5 thou for a good one. Note that steel ones are terribly expensive to restore as they rust fiercely, having received no coating whatsoever under the headliner, with all condensation racing to the seams all round to destroy them in due course. So alloy is good indeed, but front and rear moorings will likely need makeovers as they rip out, typically.

 

And then there's the appearance... ( See Geko's example above )

 

Cheers,

Tom

Edited November 26, 2017 by Tom Fremont

[SuzanneH]

Your never alone with a surry, ladies prefer Surrys.

Edited November 26, 2017 by SuzanneH

[TorontoTim]

Your never alone with a surry, ladies prefer Surrys.

 

The good news is, Sue, that some have never experienced a Surrey

[Alec Pringle]

Ladies may well prefer a Surrey, after all it turns a proper sports car into a hairdresser's cruiser . . . .

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Lebro]

+1 :D

 

Bob.

[littlejim]

Excuse my colonial iggerance but do you call the 'tin' top a Surrey, or the 'soft' one.

Q2: what do you call the other one. (A Cornwall, Westminster, Sinney etc.?) ( I thort it wuz the soft one - sigh)

Edited November 27, 2017 by littlejim

[SuzanneH]

Excuse my colonial iggerance but do you call the 'tin' top a Surrey, or the 'soft' one.

Q2: what do you call the other one. (A Cornwall, Westminster, Sinney etc.?) ( I thort it wuz the soft one - sigh)

Quite righ LJ the Surry is the fabric top between backlight and windscreen. Edited November 27, 2017 by SuzanneH

[RogerH]

Hi LJ,

after a little reading - the 'surrey' is the vehicle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrey_(carriage)

 

The name used in America. It does not appear in the British glossary of carriage names.

 

The 'fringe' on top is one of various forms. It could have a more substantial roof but most pics I've seen this morning show effectively a convertible roof (up/or folded down.)

 

Standard TRiumph must have gone for the name with its American connection.

 

I would suggest the 'Surrey' part is synonymous with the fabric roof but the old pics may suggest otherwise

 

Roger