RogerH Posted November 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Hi Folks, wow that was windy last night - and before you say it, it wasn't the curry Before I could get on the car I had to look at the damage to the swimming pool. Here in West London it is expected to have a pool. Well, as to the damage ,one side got blown in a bit but not damaged as such. More interestingly the whole thing (16ft diameter x 4ft). was blown a good foot or so away from its base. Let me explain - we didn't have a tornado (no, not the steam train, but!!!!). I have an above the ground pool (I can't swim and go nowhere near it) and three months ago I drained it to repair a little split in the liner. The liner refused to go back in so it has remained empty. This frame work weighs a fair amount but it also has quite a lot of surface area. Later today I'm going to anchor it down. Anyway back to the engine change. An hour or so ago the engine and gearbox was lifted from the car. I dropped the steering rack down to help with clearance. Another thought I had but didn't do it was removing the top rail of the front valence (the panels with the headlight cut-outs in). This would allow the engine and gearbox to slide horizontally back into position (sort of) - I may do this to re-install the engine. I think I have found the cause of the big oil leaks on the GB/OD. There is significant staining around the breather hole on the OD. There is also lots of oil and grease below the gearstick rods and forward of this area suggesting that the three O rings ont he selector rods are not working (assuming they are there). A few bolts/screws have staining around them. The engine is leaking oil from -Push rod tubes, Alternator bracket, around the sump gasket. So a few areas to look at during the rebuild. I haven't looked too far yet but there is fine brass swarf in the bottom of the bell housing. More for later. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Hi Folks, the head is off and looks in fair condition. A bit of coking but nothing broken. The head gasket looked happy unlike the exhaust manifold gasket that was wheezing around #4 outlet. Two of the manifold studs are not playing the game so may need to drill out tomorrow. Also tomorrow I shall remove the timing gear and cam - should be interesting to see what the cam lobes look like - they have done a good 120,00 miles and appear to be good. The piston liners are unscored and have only a very small step - surely I can't strip it down and contemplate putting the same liners and possibly pistons back in!!! Removing the bearing shells should also be interesting - they have not complained for all their miles. Rock on tomorrow. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Lift liners, rotate 90 deg, rehone finish rering pistons with ridge dodger top rings and button it up for another 120K. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Hmmm, Hi Mick, that sounds economic Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Folks, been playing with the head today. The valves are out and the valve guides are in as good as condition as when they were put in (170,000 miles ago) The exhaust seats look very good (with hardened seats). The inlet seats look worn (no hardened seats). I had wonderful fun with two the manifold studs. One came out tentatively with a nut welded on it. The other did not want to come out. It took 4 or 5 attempts of nut welding before it would budge. At one point things got pretty hot - literally. I had been using some brake cleaner to remove oil from the head. This was collected in a plastic biscuit tin. During the nut welding an impish spark escaped the nut and went for a swim - in the cleaning fluid. If anybody wants to know if brake cleaning fluid is inflammable then I can swear that it is - very. Anyway my scout leader experience jumped into action - I panicked. And then I plopped a thick towel on top of it. Problem solved. The head will go off at some point to have it all refurbed. This afternoon I shall be delving deeper into the block. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3md Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Roger, You must have been using lots of brake cleaner, I hope you read the label first Are you going to try and stop the oil leaks around the pushrod tubes? I have heard (from Harry) of a method involving large ball bearings and a press. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Mike, yes the push rod tubes have been leaking/staining quite a fair bit over the years. From a previous thread many moons ago the actual tubes are a problem area - what to use. A metal to metal swagging will leak - capillary action. There needs to be some sort of seal/sealant in place. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I was recommended to stick the non business end of a socket ratchet into the tube then rotate it in a circular fashion to encourage the tube back in contact with the head casting. So far so good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Pete, I've had a good look at these tubes. There is plenty of room at either end - I can feel an invention coming on!!!!! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcreweread Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Pete, I've had a good look at these tubes. There is plenty of room at either end - I can feel an invention coming on!!!!! Roger Roger Could they not be soldered in? Cheers Rich Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Rich, that is what I was thinking. The tube could be awkward to source 17.5mm OD. It would be nice in copper but mild steel could work. The head would be quite a heatsink so a few experiments may be called for. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcreweread Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Rich, that is what I was thinking. The tube could be awkward to source 17.5mm OD. It would be nice in copper but mild steel could work. The head would be quite a heatsink so a few experiments may be called for. Roger Roger Given that it seems impossible to solder a 15mm copper central heating pipe and fitting if there is any residual water in the pipe as the solder won't melt, I would be surprised if solder would melt in a cylinder head environment cooled by water (and not in the combustion/exhaust area). I don't know, but presumably the existing tubes just push out, or is this a gross oversimplification!? If they do, they could be shortened by say a millimetre, the recess in the head cleaned, and then a ring of solder run into the recess. If the tubes come out easily enough, I wonder if just cleaning everything spotlessly, re-assembling and then soldering would allow sufficient solder to flow into the joint through capillary action to effect a good seal. Thinking about it, wouldn't you only need to do this on the top joint of the tube? Of course, there may well be modern adhesives which would do all this without any heat - I'm sure some of the more experienced members here will advise. cheers Rich Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Roger, how about one of the myriad of Loctite adhesive compounds, bound to be more than one suitable for this, and it would be a whole lot easier than trying to get solder to stick to the oil on the head (car's head not yours!!) Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smyllie Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Roger, personally I think the new project is great news. Gives me something to read, and if I am reading a forum it means I am not buying something from an on-line TR parts supplier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Rich, you can only do this with the head off. So no water in the head. The tubes should be a sliding fit into the holes. The ends are then belled over. No matter how good the swagging is it will leak. Some sort of seal/sealant is required. If the steel head can be tinned then it can be soldered. Oil comes up from below and above - capillary at both ends will cause the leak. The tubes can be Ali - so will not solder. Others are steel and should be solder(able). I'm planning on copper at present. Hi Rob, yes, I have considered the loctite sealants - I like the solder idea but if it is too problematic then the script will change. Hi Bob, can't wait for the next installment. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3md Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Maybe part of the problem is a pressure greater than atmospheric pushing the oil out, so possibly the later PCV setup should lead to less likely hood of leaks? Just a thought..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Good luck with soldering the head. That's a lot of metal to heat up. 15mm copper pipe should bell out nicely to fill the gap, what about silicon in the gap prior to belling? or even a suitably undersize rubber washer ? Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Roger- just a thought, could the leakage be due to thermal expansion? If the tubes are the aluminium ones they will have twice the expansion of the head (22 micrometeres per metre-kelvin as opposed to about 10). If peened up cold, gaps will open at working temperature. Steel tubes will have much the same expansion rate as the head so might provide a better seal. Copper is not as far different (about 17) but if soft-soldered at both ends might the joints crack over time with thermal cycling ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Hi Bob, I've considered the practical side of the soldering. It is a big heat sink but a localised hot blast may do it - but then !!!!!! Some form of flexible sealant is the obvious solution - but why make it simple. Hi Rob, indeed expansion will be the major weak link assuming it can be soldered with my home tools. I'm also thinking of perhaps having a tube bell'd at one end and threaded at the other - this will allow either a rubber O rings or silicon sealant of some kind. What fun I have in store. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvtrian Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I'm also thinking of perhaps having a tube bell'd at one end and threaded at the other ..................................... What fun I have in store. Roger That's the second time reference to a bell end has been used in this thread, from one moderator to another, I counsel even more light hearted double entendre and humour! - and I wonder how you find time to do all this stuff, think about it, invent it, write about it, chase up your other projects, clean the streets, sort out errant cyclists, keep Sue happy - and entertain us all at the same time...........more power to your elbow! That hat of yours must have extraterrestrial powers, do you rent it out? Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 ... I wonder how you find time to do all this stuff, think about it, invent it, write about it, chase up your other projects, clean the streets, sort out errant cyclists, keep Sue happy - and entertain us all at the same time...........more power to your elbow! He has definitely cloned himself - I even came across one of the clones on the Triumphant Welsh Classic Tour so they do put themselves about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Hi Brian, I understand he enjoyed himself. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Never mind just the bell end, it's the in conjunction with undersize rubber, washers rings or whatever, that's worrying me . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Hi Folks, I think I have found something akin to a Rubic's cube - the engine stand. How can four little arms put up so much of a fight. I took over an hour to get things aligned and the CofG in a sensible place. Anyway it is all attached now. I wish I had put grease on the large pivot to make turning easier. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Hi Folks, Part 2 of today's installment. With grease on the engine stand pivot the engine spins around quite uncontrollably Having spent a while to get the CofG sorted I then took out the crank and oops!! it was a little top heavy - but OK. When I built the engine back in the mid 90's it had done 89,000miles in about 35 years. The big-end shells looked quite worn (down to the copper) and the rear main bearing was very badly galled. The #4 liner was rusted in and a great deal of crud had gather. This time round the engine has done in excess of 170,000 miles 17 years, The big-ends are spotless and the rear main bearing looks as if it had just been taken from its wrapper. The liners slid out with little effort. No crud at the rear of #4. The rear Fo8 seal was starting to be eaten away with corrosion but still had plenty of meat on it. The crank looks in very good condition - I'll measure it tomorrow but the plan is to fit a new crank. The camshaft on first impression looks very good. All the lobes are about the right shape. 2 or 3 lobes are just starting to breakdown - so I think a new camshaft will be required. What next!. To be honest I could throw the whole thing back together and it would be fine. However I don;t want the worry of having to do this again in a couple of years time. So, New 87mm liners and pistons. New bearing shells the new crank needs a little bit of machining, Balancing New cam Decent Fo8 seals And get the head overhauled Should be all back by Monday afternoon (n ot sure which one though). Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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