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The 4A Engine Rebuild


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BSF is 14 TPI

BSW & UNC are 11 TPI

M16 is 12.7 TPI, & 0.6299" Dia (5/8 = 0.625")

 

Hard to believe it's Metric, but that does seem to be the nearest

 

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/odd-size-tap-die-help-77913/

 

http://mdmetric.com/thddata.htm

 

13 TPI does not exist !!

 

Bob.

Edited by Lebro
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Hi Bob,

that is what I found - 13tpi just doesn't exist.

 

I shall go for the 16 x 2mm and see what happens.

 

Roger

 

Roger,

 

Buckeye Triumphs used M16x2 with success.

 

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Gearbox/ODSwitches/ODSwitches.htm

 

Cheers

Graeme

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Hi Graeme,

thanks for that. The evidence would suggest M16 is the thread type - but why?

Standard TRiumph had all sorts of UK/USA thread sizes to choose from.

 

Perhaps the switch itself is off the shelf in France (Metric) or wherever and that is what they used.

 

Anyway, the M16 tap is on order.

 

Now to work out where my interlock balls went and how to get new ones in.

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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As I told the thread is really 5/8 13TPI and my sugestion to M16 x 2

was done because I had it at hand and it fitted although the thread gauge

showed a little difference even on that short thread that only covers half

of the gauge.

 

When done in a greater batch nearly every thread can

be made without bigger expense.

 

But to be honest, this was real nonsense, 5/8 UNC would have been

the thread to choose.....

 

Especially this coarse thread combined with the fibre washers for distance setup

tends to get loose and more than once oil popped out of that area......

So maybe that was the reason to swap from 11TPI to 13TPI to keep the rule

that aluminium cast takes UNC & get a bigger force against turning loose.

Anyway, in the rear axle flange they use UNF.......

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I used the metric tap and it worked

I agree that metric sound like nonsense as original Triumph but I had a friend with an extensive range of taps (he is a steam enthusiast) and this was the tap I ended up with and the switch goes in and works

BTW there is no oil on the other side with the side application as in my photo

Good Luck maybe should be Bon Chance

Michael

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Hi Roger,

I have just redone the selector shaft O ring seals because they were still leaking. The reason was the seal area on the shafts had some seriouse pitting and would not stop the oil. As a sort of bodged fix i filed the shaft with a mill bastard file then emery tape to clean it up and got ride of the pitting. The diameter is a little smaller by a few thou but the O rings are slightly compressed when you fit them so i am hoping they will now do the job.

Graham.

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Hi Graham,

that is very interesting. I noted some marks on my shafts. I haven't checked to see what they are etc.

My o-rings appeared a little slack on the shaft and the new O-rings do not appear any better.

Annoyingly the shaft can't be sleeved as it has to go inside the casting.

 

I may have found a lip seal that will fit - it is perfect except all the dimension are a little out :blink: .

They arrive early next week so I may have a play. My O-rings were leaking big time.

I have read some old posts were there is mention of pressurisation and venting etc.as the oil gets hot it must cause some pressurisation.

There is a breather on the OD that looks oily but don;t know if it works - I shall remove and investigate.

 

I spotted that Peejay4A drilled a hole in the front nearside of the box - did this help.

 

Roger

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It most certainly did help Roger. I have a J type overdrive and IIRC they don't have a breather. My gearbox top cover was not drilled and I suffered leaking big time. The breather hole in the top cover has reduced it to normal TR levels. (ie it now leaks from other places under gravity).

Edited by peejay4A
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Hi Pete,

have you any information on what you did - hole size, position etc any pics.

 

Roger

 

R

Trying to find them...

 

Here it is: It's just visible below the upper extreme right bolt hole.

gearboxbreatherhole_zps46b056c8.jpg

Edited by peejay4A
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Hi Andreas/Michael,

logic suggests that the switch must have been from a continental source - hence metric (but it is not spot on metric).

 

 

definitely not metric, its precise 13tpi, not 2mm metric.

I have both gauges at hand and tested it.

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I spotted that Peejay4A drilled a hole in the front nearside of the box - did this help.

 

The non OD box has the breather in the rear gearbox extension and no hole in the gearbox cover

 

If somebody swaps to OD later an additional hole must be drilled in the front bearing that supports

the left shaft for shifting. That is the place with the least oil from rotating wheels inside.

If forgotten the gearbox pops oil out whenever warmed up.

 

Same problem may occure when a OD gearbox receives a new cover that came from a non OD box.

 

I found it helpfull to drill the hole and add a tube with a 8mm rubber hose along the speedo cable that

ends at the distributor to avoid oil being pressed out of the breather. What pops out keeps in the hose and

is sucked back into the gearbox when box gets colder.

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Hi Andreas,

I agree about the 'not metric' statement - it isn;t quite there.

 

But there are NO 13 TPI threads in the whole universe - very odd.

 

Hi Pete,

thanks for the pic.

 

Hi Stuart,

I have a tap winging its way here for Tuesday/Wednesday. Is yours M16x2mm

 

Sorting these O-rings was filling me with dreaded but having attacked it it is actually quite easy.

The WM has got the disassembly wrong - is states to remove the centre shaft first - not possible.

Re-assembly is correct - insert centre shaft first.

The buckeye process is too wordy.

 

My version -

Remove lid

Undo the three wedgelock screws. Great fun.

Remove outer shaft - and catch the ball.

Remove inner shaft - and catch the ball

Remove the centre shaft - and catch the roller.

Unscrew the two seal plate screws.

Remove the seals.

 

Assembly is neat as it looks as if nothing will fit

Fit the seals and the seal plate.

Fit greased roller into centre shaft and insert shaft into lid with spacer and selector.

Pop some grease on top of the roller in the outer shaft position.

Insert the inner shaft (where there is no ball) .

Place a ball over the roller and push in as far as it will go. The inner shaft will stop the roller popping out.

Remove the inner shaft. Insert the outer shaft where the ball has just been inserted plus the spacer and selector.

Pop some grease on the roller in the inner shaft hole and locate the ball. The ball should push across out of the way from the shaft.

Insert the inner shaft fitting the spacer and selector.

 

I wonder what I've left out.

 

It really is simple.

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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Hi Andreas,

I agree about the 'not metric' statement - it isn;t quite there.

 

But there are NO 13 TPI threads in the whole universe - very odd.

 

Actually there are (or perhaps were) An American National Coarse thread (ANC 1/2 inch) was 13 tpi. according to my 1956 issue of the Engineers Reference Book.

Edited by RobH
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Just to clarify - we are looking for a thread form that is apprx 5/8" with 13TPI.

 

M16 is apprx 5/8" and it has apprx 13TPI - but not exactly (but is as close as can be sorted at present)

 

13 TPI does exist in other thread sizes but the switch would either all out or not fit.

 

Roger

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