RogerH Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Hi Rich, 22mm copper pipe would have worked but I think the outer rubber would have still been a devil. Having the centre shaft in place would not have helped (I think). PS - a pipe just bigger than the nylon inner bobbin would have been handy thinking about it. This would have kept the outer rubber section in place as it was being draw in - next time. The bottom bush went in very easily with the 10mm puller - however I think using your fingers would still be in the realms of Geoff Capes etc. Hi Steve, soapy water etc is what is recommended by Revington - it does help in normal conditions. I used 2pack paint. It all seemed to go OK - a few runs here and there but they should buff up ok. Working in a confined space is very difficult but that is what I had to work in. Roger Edited February 9, 2016 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I used a length of broom handle as a drift to fit my Revington bushes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Hi Pete, I think that is what I've used in the past but it didn't work this time - I don't know why. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Too much quidditch probably. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Roger, Have I missed the post, if using 2 pack have you a ventilator system for your mask ? Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Roger, Have I missed the post, if using 2 pack have you a ventilator system for your mask ? Mick Richards I hope so too, and fed from a compressor that has a fresh air intake. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Hi Folks, another great step forward in the engine build - yes the rear nearside wing is off. As mentioned a while ago I took the FNS wing off to do some work while the engine was away and a large rust hole appeared in the front end of the sill. Today I set fifth to sort the sill out but realised I needed to take the rear wing off. Well, the wing, having been on for 18 years came off a treat. Every screw spun out. The back of the 'B' post was spotless as was all of the underwing area. Thank heavens for wheel arch liners. This afternoon I will assess what repair to do but from a quick glance I think I will be replacing the bottom half of the sill as removing the old sill is a mammoth task. I wonder what will happen. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Hi Roger, Any possibility of making a front sill repair section which will weld onto the exterior showing part of the sill under the door ? After all it will be hidden under the newly repaired bottom section on the front wing you've just completed and out of view. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Hi Mick, the sill is apprx 4" deep. For the wing area I have removed the lower 3" this should allow a fairly simply repair section to go in- joggle along the top edge and a folded 90' edge where it will join the sill section below the door. The sill below the door will be apprx 2" deep. The front edge will be folded over with a 90' flange to join front repair panel. One thing that has surprised me is where and how the corrosion is happening. All along the bottom of the sill where it joins the floor panel vertical flage it is corrode up to apprx 1". Above this the Waxoyl is intact and no rust. Within this 1" band it is very rusty and the waxoyl has come off in sheets. It has been re-waxoyled over the years probally every 3-4 years. Is Dinitrol more tenacious Thankfully the floor panel vertical flange is in fair condition; so not a lot of work required here. Tomorrow I shall pop along to Moss and get some end caps. I may pop rivet these on - they are not under load and welding doesn't help with corrosion. I winder what it is like working on an engine. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Roger, Were the sills replaced previously ? if so were they painted and protected with body shutz or underseal immediately after replacement ? Asking because sills and floor will be needed on my TR4 along with much other body repair (UK car), and knowing how assiduous you've been with Waxoyl reviving regime over the past few years etc makes me wonder how to protect bodyshell to stand a chance of future imperviousness to our great UK weather. Mick Richards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Hi Mick, the outside of the sills where protected very well. They went tatty from the inside out. I though I had them protected but alas no! When I sort these out I shall paint the insides with Bondarust primer, grey primer, top coat and waxoyl before attaching the end caps. It is the sitting water in the bottom of the sills that is the killer (even though there are drains in there). Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Good luck with the moss end caps. I had to do a lot of fettling to get them to fit ( however could have been my sills). The metal working skills learnt on them came in handy for later parts of the car. The sill/end cap sections on my 4A are more your grinder sculpted welds than your mild steel pressings. Edited February 12, 2016 by littlejim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Just been discussing this with another member, the Moss sill end caps if you get their pressed ones are very good indeed and fit well, Roger are you sure you painted inside the sill before you fitted it, did you use weld thru primer on the flanges, did you spot weld them or plug weld and did you seam seal all the edges after fitting? Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Hi Stuart, here are the answers in order - yes, yes, no, yes, yes. Obviously not sealed as well as they should have been. Must try harder. I now have the Moss end caps and they look very well pressed. I remember formt hwe 90's they were very scruffy pressings. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Yes the Moss end caps are a great improvement, Jeff found an Indian firm to do it with a proper deep draw press. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hi Folk, If I was a Roman Legionnaire it would be one Mille forward and two Milles back. For four days I was cutting, shaping, welding metal to repair the nearside sill. Outside it was cold and windy but it had to be done. Anyway I sort of finished on Tuesday. I sat back to have a decent look at what I had done - bloody awful. Because it was made up of three sections it just didn't appear to flow neatly. OK, a thin covering f filler would have hidden the unevenness, but I would have known t was there. Yuk!!!! On Monday I had a kind offer of some repair panels for the sill but because I am really far to clever (for my boots) I turned them down. On Wednesday I purchased a complete sill. Not too expensive and appears to be the right shape. Yesterday I cut off the repair work (plus a bit) with the intention of then trimming the panel to suit the cut out. However before getting to this stage I spotted a wee bit of rust. Where the 'A' post sits on the sill there was rust breaking through - the bottom of the 'A' post forms a closed box section - sadly it is not closed to water. It gets wet, it sits there, it rusts away. So I have cut the rust away and left a neat(ish) hole - water can drain out, air can get in. In the same area there is a three layer flange arrangement. Inner & Outer sill flanges + the 'A' post. This had also got the dreaded rust within its layers. After cutting away all the rusty bits it all now looks a little more acceptable. Today I have to finish off the 'A' post area - that looks like fun. Then I can set to replacing the floor vertical flange - bottom 2 inches. I was having a chat last night to my TR colleague Jeff and he mentioned rather than welding what about adhesives. I like adhesives - it is so Blue Peter - we use a great deal of the stuff in aerospace and in the right application is perfect. There are no heat problems that you get with welding and no buckling that can happen with riveting. But having thought about it adhesives do not like corrosion. For my sill replacement the bottom area is prone to rusting. This could creep along the adhesive/metal bond line and split open. Is there a better way of joining mild steel rather than welding.? Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Roger Stop Faffing Around and get on with it or it'll never get Finished,Rivets? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Is there a better way of joining mild steel rather than welding.? Brazing. You can fill the overlapping flange with braze, so it'll never corrode. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hi Niall, (Sue agrees with you) I'll have you know that I don't faff around. I may balls about a fair bit but never faff. Hi Pete, brazing does have some benefits but I was thinking about something a little colder. The 'A' post is now sorted (sort of). When looking at the rusty bits I happened across a crack (I'm good at cracks). It is was in the forward bottom corner of the door frame on the flanges of the inner/outer sills. Welding the crack would have been easy but there was considerable within the layers. So, out with the angle grinder and gone with the rust (wasn't that a film). Rebuilding the various layers was something of a Rubic;s cube. I finished it off with a nice curved strip that followed the flange around. I bet it doesn't crack again. I had planned on making and fitting a strip to form the floor panel vertical flange but in doing the 'A' post I noted that the passenger floor was rather manky. Off with the paint, sort the rust, reprotect - tomorrow. The turned a b it iffy at about 4pm so I packed up but not before attacking the near side door. The bottom flange was starting to go icky so a bit of paint stripping and dunked in rust remover till tomorrow. What fun Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hi Folks, hidden within the drivel above I asked if there was another way to join the sill together = eg glue. Looking on You Tube there are loads of adhesives for bonding metal/metal structures and they suggest they are very strong. Now I know from working in aerospace that there are many adhesives that are as strong as the parent material - if you try to pull it apart the metal will tear. Two products popped up on the Tube - Norton Speedgrip and 3m Autofix - both are epoxy and both allow time to play (45 & 90 minutes working time). On ebay they are available but all in the USA - nothing in the UK. Why are they not available here. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Why are they not available here. Hazardous chemical content? I believe that 3M have a lot of products that are not allowed in Europe. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hi Pete, brazing does have some benefits but I was thinking about something a little colder. Soft solder then! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hi Pete, I have considered soldering the lower seam on the sill. Tin both halves and then sweat together - this would have no flux in the joint and any localised paint would not get burnt off. I think I will try some experiments tomorrow. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Roger Spot weld it Triumph got it right trolly jack and a lenth of 4x2 or it will sag Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hi Neil, spot weld would be my choice but I do not have a spot welder. Perhaps I could hire one but have never used one. Is there such a thing as a battery powered spot welder? Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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