MilesA Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 After spending yesterday jack knifed over the engine bay and in the footwells, I am laid up this morning with serious lower back pain. Bit of a weak spot for me but being laid up is very rare. It has got me thinking about the physical approach to working on our cars (not much else to do!). I don’t think I have seen any discussion on this before I run a bit and at my age am absolutely assiduous about warming up and stretching before a run and stretching afterwards to minimise injury. Of course it has never occurred to me to do anything similar when embarking on occasional car work. So I will be looking up some pre-work stretches for the future and possibly invest in a back support. I might also try some Pilates as I know I am not especially bendy. Anyone have any other tips to minimise future problems? In the meantime, if I could reach it, I will self-medicate with the single malt! Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 I too have a weak back after it “went” out the blue several years ago. if I know I’m going to be into a big gardening - car maintenance day I pre dose with painkiller anti inflammatory. seems to help but exercise and building strength should be a better idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 I can empathise with your situation……. Although probably being younger than many on this forum I suffer with lower back problems and arthritis in my hips and knees, both are easily aggravated. Having the car sit higher reduces some of the bending needed - to help a bit I park my car forwards onto a pair of CR01 ramps - the extra couple of inches is a bonus to begin with, but I can raise it easily if needed without moving anything for an easier life. Using various foam pads to lie/kneel on also helps (and acts as a layer of insulation on colder days. other than that, most short-term fixes are only available via a prescription. ……… Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 As Hamish states -post activity Ibuprofen or Paracetamol should calm the aches and pains Knee pads/sponge when kneeling is a must and an old blanket on the ground to lay on during cold spells. A wheeled trolley to lay on under the car is a real luxury When in the footwell removal of the steering wheel can give more wriggle room. Consider putting a flat board from outside the car into the footwell to lay on. It would be an interesting sight to do the same when working over the wing into the engine bay. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 16 minutes ago, RogerH said: an old blanket on the ground to lay on during cold spells I use one of those large sponge-rubber mats (about 2ft x 4ft and 3/4 inch thick) often sold at car shows. Just the job for kneeling or lying on, to work low down. The surface is sort of sealed, so can be wiped off if it gets oily. The only problem is my getting up again after using it - has to be done rather slowly and using whatever is nearby as a grab handle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, RobH said: I use one of those large sponge-rubber mats (about 2ft x 4ft and 3/4 inch thick) often sold at car shows. Just the job for kneeling or lying on, to work low down. The surface is sort of sealed, so can be wiped off if it gets oily. The only problem is my getting up again after using it - has to be done rather slowly and using whatever is nearby as a grab handle. +1 for the sponge mat. For getting up I try to ensure that I have one of those gardening kneeling stool that have raised hand grips. kneeler Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 9 hours ago, MilesA said: After spending yesterday jack knifed over the engine bay and in the footwells, I am laid up this morning with serious lower back pain. Bit of a weak spot for me but being laid up is very rare. It has got me thinking about the physical approach to working on our cars (not much else to do!). I don’t think I have seen any discussion on this before I run a bit and at my age am absolutely assiduous about warming up and stretching before a run and stretching afterwards to minimise injury. Of course it has never occurred to me to do anything similar when embarking on occasional car work. So I will be looking up some pre-work stretches for the future and possibly invest in a back support. I might also try some Pilates as I know I am not especially bendy. Anyone have any other tips to minimise future problems? In the meantime, if I could reach it, I will self-medicate with the single malt! Miles Miles You will just have to believe me when I say running and more so running on a tread mill is perhaps the worst thing you can do for your joints although I accept its good for cardiovascular fitness. Best exercise especially as you get older for joint preservationis to simply walk a fair distance and better still swim as its non weight bearing and incidentally good for your cardio as well win win. Running simply pounds joints to death and accelerates wear esp hips/knee's which are connected to the pelvis and lower back. A lot of lower back pain can be traced to problems within the foot and knee. My own thoughts are that we are simply no yet evolved sufficiently to be walking upright! We are more evolved for brisk walking and a short sprint to catch our food, eat, rest and do it all over again. From a practical point of view I agree with all of the above if you have prior back problems but would add perhaps consider wearing a belt similar to those worn by weight lifters to support the lower back and regular Vitamin D. Try to minimise twisting for prolonged periods which is the worse thing and if you are like me just take your time! Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 (edited) My wife loves running and has done ultras like running Anglesey coastal path race (135miles in a weekend) and I always worried about her knees and she shared this with me yesterday. I guess time will tell. but she will outlast me !!!!https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2022/10/19/running-knee-injuries/ Edited October 22, 2022 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted October 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 Thanks for the input all. I have a number of sponge mats which I use but I think that Andy(R100) may be on the money. I recall the ease with which I changed the exhaust manifold gaskets and re-wrapped the down pipes when I had the 3A up on ramps. Given the minimal size of my new garage the attractive idea of using sill height or wing height chaise lounges isn’t going to work alas. But absent some easy use ramps, I think some stretching and a back brace would be sensible (accompanied by a handful of pain killers!). Re running and knee damage, thanks but I am not convinced Andy. In 25 years of running, I have never had any knee problems (had a few others though). Sure it was a problem in the early days of mass running but shoes in particular are so much better than they were a few decades ago. I may wear cheap running kit but I am a great believer in gait analysis and do not stint on buying the best quality running shoes. Presently works out at about 3p a mile. And by comparison with what the TR costs me… I will never run another marathon and probably not a half. But it’s an easy way of exercising and all I need can be stuffed into two trainers when travelling…even when attending the IWE. Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 7 hours ago, MilesA said: Thanks for the input all. I have a number of sponge mats which I use but I think that Andy(R100) may be on the money. I recall the ease with which I changed the exhaust manifold gaskets and re-wrapped the down pipes when I had the 3A up on ramps. Given the minimal size of my new garage the attractive idea of using sill height or wing height chaise lounges isn’t going to work alas. But absent some easy use ramps, I think some stretching and a back brace would be sensible (accompanied by a handful of pain killers!). Re running and knee damage, thanks but I am not convinced Andy. In 25 years of running, I have never had any knee problems (had a few others though). Sure it was a problem in the early days of mass running but shoes in particular are so much better than they were a few decades ago. I may wear cheap running kit but I am a great believer in gait analysis and do not stint on buying the best quality running shoes. Presently works out at about 3p a mile. And by comparison with what the TR costs me… I will never run another marathon and probably not a half. But it’s an easy way of exercising and all I need can be stuffed into two trainers when travelling…even when attending the IWE. Miles Your call at the end of the day but agree buying and more importantly changing the trainers on a more frequent basis than one might expect offers some mitigation against injury as there is a lot of hype, myths and hard marketing around. Just out of interest when you say gait analysis what do you mean? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, PodOne said: Just out of interest when you say gait analysis what do you mean? It’s a bio-mechanical running style assessment that will allow the correct shoe selection. https://upandrunning.co.uk/pages/gait-analysis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 What a bunch we are…. I have like many a troublesome back for which I see the team that make theses videos on a regular preventative basis. Miles you might find this useful No association other than a very happy customer. Iain ps they have many videos that maybe of use for other musculoskeletal issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Hi Miles, I strongly sympathise with the bending over car induced back pain, and I find a back support (weight lifter type) helps a lot, also I remember watching a program about Australian Sheep Shearers using a ceiling suspended sling to support them whilst they worked, so something like that could be arranged while your fiddling with your nuts in the engine bay!! Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Hamish said: It’s a bio-mechanical running style assessment that will allow the correct shoe selection. https://upandrunning.co.uk/pages/gait-analysis Just my opinion of course, but I thought it might be. My advice would be that they don't know much other than they want to sell you a pair of trainers with the word "pronation" being the devils work! A true gait assessment generally lives in the world of a medical physics or university gait lab and people with the training/ability to watch peoples gait whilst actually running in the absence of any technology. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted October 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Iain, yes, we are bunch of a certain age and hence greater physical vulnerability! Thanks for the video links - useful Rob, definitely looking for one of those supports. Andy, thanks for your thoughts. I think few have access to the kind of detailed analysis you describe. I had my first gait analysis 25 years ago with a qualified podiatrist. He prescribed a certain type of running shoe and bespoke inserts. I still use the same inserts today and the same model of running shoe I bought then (changing every 400 miles). I know from experience that when a couple of times I tried a different type of shoe, problems have arisen. In store analysis may not be perfect but better than nothing. So I still urge novice runners to have some sort of video based analysis and trial running of shoes done. Rather like replacement parts for our cars, often the more expensive shoes are better quality. Thanks all Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Spending long periods bent over, especially with a 'bad back' are best relieved by regular breaks after twenty minutes or so. Getting back (!) to the vertical will limit the strain and provide early warning that you may have done enough. Have another job on the workbench so you can do that standing up, or else take a break to write notes. On kneeling pads and what to lie on, the usual light cotton overalls provide little protection and no padding. Proper industrial garments, with built in knee pad pockets in a heavy cotton/polyester fabric and Cordura. Hard wearing, protective and easy to clean, such as Dassy. For other protection, mechanics' semi-mittens protect my hands but leave the first two finger tips naked for sensitivity. Steel capped shoes. Then, I carry my mobile phone in a breast pocket. At my age, and living alone, if I was incapacitated in the workshop, I might stay there until the milkman arrived next morning. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 I may be the odd one out here but I am totally against pain killer tablets/ointment etc. Many years ago I did something to my right shoulder. I was a curtain pole fitter at the time and stretched out at arms length with a heavy drill. The drill bit snagged, and twisted my arm. Agony ! Every few years I do something similar (Like reaching out under the car to check UJ bolts) and the shoulder “Goes” for a good 3 months. My wife tells me to take painkillers or rub the shoulder with “Deep Heat”. My view is that the pain is telling me there is a problem with what I’m doing and that I should stop. Hiding the pain behind a screen is going to make me feel better, but is quite probably going to make the injury worse without me knowing. I think that if what you are doing is causing you pain, then stop doing it, and find another way to do it or just give up for a while. Charlie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
openroad Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Miles, you have all of our sympathy so it seems, and we all suffer with back pain etc, maybe Andy is right we haven't evolved enough yet ! Good to meet you at Beaulieu by the way I spent 6 weeks in may/June sat on the settee , if i stood or lay down I was in chronic pain, so mainly stayed on the settee, they are long nights, when you can't go to bed !! By luck, Pills and an Osteopath I got through it and am now back training harder than I was before whatever happened. I can't give it up , makes me feel so much better , and gives me more flexibility for working on the Tr etc. I even feel like playing Rugby again, but maybe common sense will prevail there !! Have fun, Conrad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, Charlie D said: I may be the odd one out here but I am totally against pain killer tablets/ointment etc. That makes two of us then; which is even, not odd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 A few years ago when I had my first hip replaced the anaethesist said that after surgery you will be in pain. Take the pain killers, there are no prizes for hero's My view is remove the pain with the painkillers but do not cause more injury to that area - rest. You will know when to go out to play. Regarding the hip - I have just had my other hip replaced. After surgery there was no pain. There were no pain killers. Very clever surgeon Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harbottle Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) Whilst a ramp of some sort certainly helps with a lot of jobs being brought upto a more manageable height, it still does not solve all the the awkward tasks. Getting under the dash etc still involves removing the seat and lying on your back most of the time. As stated we (or most of we) are of a certain age were aches and pains start by just thinking about doing a job on the TR. Just look at todays birthdays and the youngest shown is 62!! Ah Well. Paul Edited October 23, 2022 by Harbottle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted October 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Charlie D said: I may be the odd one out here but I am totally against pain killer tablets/ointment etc. Many years ago I did something to my right shoulder. I was a curtain pole fitter at the time and stretched out at arms length with a heavy drill. The drill bit snagged, and twisted my arm. Agony ! Every few years I do something similar (Like reaching out under the car to check UJ bolts) and the shoulder “Goes” for a good 3 months. My wife tells me to take painkillers or rub the shoulder with “Deep Heat”. My view is that the pain is telling me there is a problem with what I’m doing and that I should stop. Hiding the pain behind a screen is going to make me feel better, but is quite probably going to make the injury worse without me knowing. I think that if what you are doing is causing you pain, then stop doing it, and find another way to do it or just give up for a while. Charlie. I agree Charlie that simply reaching for the pills and masking a problem is not a good idea. But, the sort of pain we are talking about involves internal inflammation. Reducing that inflamation contributes to pain-reduction and healing. That is why walking is often recommended to lower back pain suffers, as the increased blood flow helps reduce inflammation. Similarly, part of the role of certain well known proprietary pain killers is to reduce the inflammation. So they do play a practical role in the healing process. Based on the input from the in-house pharmacist and GP! Some useful additional tips from others too. Miles Edited October 23, 2022 by MilesA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 I find that the more jobs I undertake in the garden and on the TR, the less likely I am to suffer aches and pains. I suppose it is a matter of keeping all the body parts moving about as much and as often as possible. Yesterday and today I undertook greasing of the front suspension and prop shaft (both ends) - jobs which require me to get the TR onto axle stands, and necessitate quite a lot of crawling around. Although my garage floor has a rough concrete finish, I find that thick cotton overalls over my very threadbare jeans provides sufficient protection for my knees when I am moving around quite a lot. Being quite small and not very heavy (under 10 stone) probably helps. both in getting under the car and in minimising pressure on knees. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytr5 Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 I was lucky in installing a car lift in my garage which is a two poster some years ago. It did not take long to make my mind up when the company who makes it produced one for the home garage. Soon in and up and running. I cut letter boxes in the ceiling to get max lift so my screen and surrey backlite went up and into it. A joy to use. Regards Harry TR5 Nutter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Harry, Curious to know the distance from your floor to the ceiling. (Normal, not the letterbox height) Also, what is the width of your garage. Thanks. Charlie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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