RogerH Posted November 9, 2020 Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 Thanks John for that. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted November 9, 2020 Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 The early results of the Pfizer vaccine suggest that if 10 vaccinated people get exposed to the virus, 1 will get sick. 90% effective. Flu vaccine is generally thought to be 60% effective, here in the US a covid19 vaccine that is at least 50% effective will get approval. General availability of a vaccine is months away and many people will refuse it. Face coverings, social distancing and hand hygiene will continue to be our best option for reducing the spread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 I'm not sure about this vaccine. It hasnt been trialled in oldies and its a wholly new type of vaccine. Its the first RNA vaccine for humans. so really unknown territory. In the body any of our own RNA that escapes cells is extremely labile, rapidly broken up by enzymes. So I want more safety info on the consequnces of injecting foreign RNA. I am not an anti-vaxxer but I wont be first in the queue for this one. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 Review on mRNA vaccines: https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243 mRNA wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messenger_RNA Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) Thnak you, Peter! Most informative article, if two years old in a rapidly developing field. It includes a section on safety, which necessarily cannot be read except generally about a specific vaccine. But it makes the point that an mRNA vaccine has inherent safety, in that it "does not require toxic chemicals or cell cultures that could be contaminated with adventitious viruses ... live virus, viral vectors, inactivated virus". Because it is m - messenger - RNA it will not become incorporated into the recipient's genome, and its manufacture is quick, with less opportunity for contamination. Concerns are expressed, mainly to do with 'naked' mRNA, as opposed to encapsulated, also discussed, but I hope we can assume that the study directors have read those papers too, and have looked for those effects in their volunteers. The BIG problem with the Pfizer vaccine is that it is unstable, and must be stored at -97C. A vial cannot be brought out of store to be used more than four times. This means that in the Western World, vaccination with this vaccine cannot be carried out in GP surgeries which lack the facilities for cryogenic storage, and that it is completely inappropriate for use in the Third World, that lacks a distribution system that cold. The Imperial College vaccine, also mRNA, and not far behind, is said to be stable in normal fridges. John Edited November 10, 2020 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bobbie Posted November 12, 2020 Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 So Matt Hancock states they are “working hard” on this subject..... Really? Surely the body of evidence is overwhelming, and until this comes to being accepted by the “authorities” , a volume take up by the nation will not occur. For me, I received my vitamin D test result today, 68 nmol/l which my app monitoring my supplement tells me I’m now at 72 nmol/l a rising figure. just as well since the app also tells me I am 111 days away from “my next d opportunity from the sun”...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 Hancock may not act on widespread supplementation until the supply chain is guaranteed. To dose UK population at 2000-4000 IU pd would need ca 1 to2 tons of D3 per year. Global supply is only 90 tons, form China. If Hancock were to advise taking D3 only for the shelves to empty overnight it would be a repeat of PPE and PCR-primers. So although he might accept the science , action may be delayed for lack of supplies. It is a good idea to buy in a year's supply, now ! Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Forey Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 Got enough for 2021 a few weeks back, thinking that this story might break at last. Tried to persuade members of my wider family to join suit but no success so far. Mick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 Rumour has it that SACN have advised Hancock against wider/more D3 supplementation and may have thwarted Davis' initiative. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 http://www.drdavidgrimes.com/2020/11/ The use of Sir Austin Bradford Hill's criteria of causality, which nailed the risk of lung cancer to smoking, applied to risk of covid severity to D3 deficiency. As close ot "proof" as science can get without experimenting on humans. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 Peter, re "Rumour has it that SACN have advised Hancock against wider/more D3 supplementation and may have thwarted Davis' initiative." Surely Professor Susan Lanham-New & Charlotte Wright on SACN are pro Vit D and friendly faces. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/933539/SACN_Register_of_Interests_v24.pdf (search text for VITAMIN d) Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33164936/ Vitamin D supplementation for 12 months appears to improve cognitive function through reducing oxidative stress regulated by increased TL in order adults with MCI. Vitamin D may be a promising public health strategy to prevent cognitive decline. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 2 hours ago, barkerwilliams said: Peter, re "Rumour has it that SACN have advised Hancock against wider/more D3 supplementation and may have thwarted Davis' initiative." Surely Professor Susan Lanham-New & Charlotte Wright on SACN are pro Vit D and friendly faces. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/933539/SACN_Register_of_Interests_v24.pdf (search text for VITAMIN d) Alan They claim no evidence re C-19 ,advise far too low dose ( based on bone), and overegg the risk of 2000-4000 IU pd. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 2 hours ago, foster461 said: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33164936/ Vitamin D supplementation for 12 months appears to improve cognitive function through reducing oxidative stress regulated by increased TL in order adults with MCI. Vitamin D may be a promising public health strategy to prevent cognitive decline. I noticed a distinct improvement in remembering proper names a few months after starting on D3. Mood improved too, few "downers" nowadays. MCI delayed, I hope. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 A meta-analysis, using the results of several - many! - previous publications, has found that black people, compared to white, are twice as likely to be infected by Covid and those from an Asian background one and half times. Of these, Asian people were twice as likely to need ICU admission. See: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30374-6/fulltext No doubt this will be seen as confirmatory evidence that VitD, deficient in those with pigmented skin in a high latitude, is the reason for this, but the authors avoided that aspect entiraly as they had no data. JOhn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, john.r.davies said: A meta-analysis, using the results of several - many! - previous publications, has found that black people, compared to white, are twice as likely to be infected by Covid and those from an Asian background one and half times. Of these, Asian people were twice as likely to need ICU admission. See: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30374-6/fulltext No doubt this will be seen as confirmatory evidence that VitD, deficient in those with pigmented skin in a high latitude, is the reason for this, but the authors avoided that aspect entiraly as they had no data. JOhn More likely the authors have no concept of the role of D3 - its a vitamin they once heard of, something to do with bone..... This small intervention study from India shows the way ahead, and closely resembles Schwalfenberg's "D3 hammer" we have already discussed in this thread: https://pmj.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/12/postgradmedj-2020-139065 It goes to show that if researchers fail to ask the right questions, no matter how enormous the sample size, they contribute nowt to understanding the nature of the problem. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/covid-uk-government-requests-guidance-on-vitamin-d-use/ar-BB1b0t5P Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) I have never believed in conspiracy theories but now...... I am wondering if the reluctance to recognise officially that Vitamin D has an important and beneficial role to play in our bodies in may areas is looked upon as a significant business risk by what is usually called Big Pharma. After all a healthier population with better immune systems would not be a good thing for those who seek to sell us "necessary" medication and the leverage that gives them over our lives and purse strings. Perhaps we will soon be seeing a buying up of those who manufacture and market Vitamin D by companies with vested interest and deep pockets. Even the announcement of plans to distribute Vitamin D to those in Scotland are reported to have gone nowhere. Alan Edited November 15, 2020 by barkerwilliams Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 1 hour ago, barkerwilliams said: I have never believed in conspiracy theories but now...... I am wondering if the reluctance to recognise officially that Vitamin D has an important and beneficial role to play in our bodies in may areas is looked upon as a significant business risk by what is usually called Big Pharma. After all a healthier population with better immune systems would not be a good thing for those who seek to sell us "necessary" medication and the leverage that gives them over our lives and purse strings. Perhaps we will soon be seeing a buying up of those who manufacture and market Vitamin D by companies with vested interest and deep pockets. Even the announcement of plans to distribute Vitamin D to those in Scotland are reported to have gone nowhere. Alan D3 researchers have raised the question of conspiracy before, though it is difficult to see how big pharma could interfere. However big tobacco staved off legislation on smloking risks for decades, and the actions of NICE-SACN in recognising solely RCT evidence to the exclusion of all other science resembles the tobacco company approach. However I rather think it is a spectacular own-goal by regulatory bodies charged with assessing D3 as a you would a drug. They ignore huge swathes of science and causal analyses such as the Bradford-Hill criteria. Having dug an ever deeper hole for themselves they are now fighting a rear-guard action. The coronavirus is exposing our D3 deficiency as never before and the days of NICE-SACN ruling the roost with their edicts are numbered. David Davis MP is listening intently to the voices of D3 researchers and clininicians, and will hopefully win change. If not annother nation will break ranks and exit the pandemic using decent sized nation-wide supplements, together with the "D3 hammer" and the Cordoba emergency therapy. One good aspect of the pandemic -the only one I can see- is the realisation of the extensive D3 science in a whole host of diseases and the avoidnace with a cheap, simple and safe intervention. Diabetes, hypertension, cancers, neurodegenerative diseases, etc ,even longevity, will all be improved. If I were starting a career in medicine today I'd make a point of looking for the D3 angle in whatever specialty interested me. D3 expertise is thin on the ground at present. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 A couple of recent papers on C-19 for D3 enthusiasts. Use of large oral bolus D3 resembling Schwalfenberg's D3 Hammer, form India: https://pmj.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/12/postgradmedj-2020-139065 In Kenya, a very low death rate from C-19 despite significant level of sero-positivity. https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/11/11/science.abe1916 - no mention of D3 whatsoever, ignorance is profound. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 Latest from WHO. COVID-19 BREAKING NEWS. Men aged between 40 - 70 are now thought most likely to carry the Corona virus without showing any signs or symptoms. The best course of action is to avoid women and children to prevent the spread of the virus. Workshops sheds and Garages are recognised as the safest areas and you must now self isolate in one for 14 days. Ensure you have with you, your laptop, PayPal details and plenty of tea bags and milk. A large crate of your favourite cold beverage and a fridge are also advised. Others in your household should be aware that even a slight sniffle or sneeze on the last day of the 14, means another 14 days. Come on guys, do it for the family! Keep calm and stay in the garage! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 hours ago, john.r.davies said: Latest from WHO. COVID-19 BREAKING NEWS. Men aged between 40 - 70 are now thought most likely to carry the Corona virus without showing any signs or symptoms. The best course of action is to avoid women and children to prevent the spread of the virus. Workshops sheds and Garages are recognised as the safest areas and you must now self isolate in one for 14 days. Ensure you have with you, your laptop, PayPal details and plenty of tea bags and milk. A large crate of your favourite cold beverage and a fridge are also advised. Others in your household should be aware that even a slight sniffle or sneeze on the last day of the 14, means another 14 days. Come on guys, do it for the family! Keep calm and stay in the garage! great advice John. Worked for me during first lockdown (furlough) but current work/job I don’t think it’ll be possible. Unless I get tested positive. lateral flow test last week was neg. so new sump on the tr will have to wait. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Triumph Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 On 11/15/2020 at 6:32 PM, john.r.davies said: Latest from WHO. COVID-19 BREAKING NEWS. Men aged between 40 - 70 are now thought most likely to carry the Corona virus without showing any signs or symptoms. The best course of action is to avoid women and children to prevent the spread of the virus. Workshops sheds and Garages are recognised as the safest areas and you must now self isolate in one for 14 days. Ensure you have with you, your laptop, PayPal details and plenty of tea bags and milk. A large crate of your favourite cold beverage and a fridge are also advised. Others in your household should be aware that even a slight sniffle or sneeze on the last day of the 14, means another 14 days. Come on guys, do it for the family! Keep calm and stay in the garage! Great advice! Worked for me in lockdown 1 and it's working again now. It helps that the signal from my wifi router reaches the garage. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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