Mick Forey Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 I have just written to my MP imploring him to take the open letter seriously. I got a reply in about 30 mins. Not much help there but it made feel as if I have done something. Mick Dear Mick, I share your concern for everyone across the UK who is feeling the effects of Covid-19 – it is a truly devastating virus and I welcome the measures so far put in place to alleviate the pandemic. I had raised the option of vitamin D with my Ministerial colleagues previously and received the following reply. I understand that early research suggests a link between vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality rates. I do, however, want to stress that this research is in its early stages, and as such we are not yet at a stage where we would recommend systematic prescription of vitamin D supplements, either as a preventative or a treatment including for specific groups like people of a BAME background. However, I welcome that the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care has asked for a further review into evidence that has emerged over recent weeks, and I will follow the progress of this review closely. However, I do know that the NHS has suggested that people should consider taking Vitamin D supplements at this time while they spend more time indoors than usual, to keep bones and muscles healthy. Vitamin D can also be found in oily fish, red meat, liver, egg yolks, and fortified foods, such as some fat spreads and breakfast cereals. I know that the Government is currently seeking to raise awareness of the general health benefits of Vitamin D, as there are no downsides to taking supplements or increasing the Vitamin D in your diet, and it may yet emerge that there is a connection between insufficient Vitamin D and increased mortality from Covid-19. I will continue to monitor this issue closely, and thank you again for taking the time to contact me. Kind regards, Andrew Bridgen MP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 Mick, many tks for the info. I doubt he considered the Open Letter in depth in 30 mins. If others would email their own MP with the same query we can soon uncover a concerted ( cut and pasted ) attempt by HMG to keep the lid on D3 for C19. That is what I and others are starting to suspect is happening. Why? maybe stocks of D3 hopelessly indequate, maybe not wanting public to act as if D3 makes them invulnerable. maybe protecting vested interests in vaccines, or big pharma... Sadly, terribly, people are dying who could have been saved. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 MSN have run the story https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/familyhealth/130-experts-sign-open-letter-to-boris-johnson-urging-he-make-vitamin-d-a-coronavirus-strategy/ar-BB1c6X6e Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4912/rr-6 RCTs on D3 for C-19 that are in progress unlikely when published later in 2021 unlikely to meet NICE criteria. ""............these trials, if successfully completed, will tell us retrospectively whether or not many lives might have been saved by a stronger promotion of vitamin D supplements that cost pence and are extremely safe. Is that really what evidence-based medicine is meant to be about? "" Stay safe Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 Tks Alan, very seasonal - three wise men. ( but with a tendency to wander otp). The narcolepsy angle is new to me. needs looking into. Dunno who Chris is, but his anti-Gates stance rings true: the Wellcome-gates Accelerator bans studies on hormones and vitamins. And it has proved impossible to get the Open Letter into the minastream press, seems to be a "D-notice" at work. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 A BBC program titled "Boosting Your Immune System" https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000r0hx BBC1 Wednesday 21:00 - no idea of the contents. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, barkerwilliams said: A BBC program titled "Boosting Your Immune System" https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000r0hx BBC1 Wednesday 21:00 - no idea of the contents. Alan There was a prog last summer towards the end of the first lockdown (not sure of it was BBC) but it was totally useless. Not one mention of VitD etc. I hope this is better. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 hours ago, barkerwilliams said: A BBC program titled "Boosting Your Immune System" https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000r0hx BBC1 Wednesday 21:00 - no idea of the contents. Alan Tks Alan, I have alerted the D3 Campaign Group. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 One of our local hospitals recruiting for a Vit D/Covid trial https://www.vividtrial.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/VIVID-Overview-Script.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 32 minutes ago, foster461 said: One of our local hospitals recruiting for a Vit D/Covid trial https://www.vividtrial.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/VIVID-Overview-Script.pdf Tks Alan, the group knew about it and has criticised the low dose and short duration. It is unlikely that serum 25(OH)D will rise fast enough with these doses: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04536298 The Argentina trial used 500,000 IU one-off in order to raise 25(OH)D as fast as the liver can hydroxylate D. Badly designed D3 trials , as that Harvard one, are not neutral. Thier failures add to the herd mentality of most medics that D3 is a fad. I do not regard D3 as a medicine and it is a mistake by many clinicians to treat it thus. Rather it is a hormone that is needed continually and at physiological serum levels, and to acheive that, in the absence of UVB, requires daily supplements of ca 4000 IU. It takes 2 to 3months at that dosage to reach a decent stable serum 25(OH)D of 100-150 nmol/L. (We all know that, I put it in just in case there a new readers joining the thread !) Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 8 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said: Tks Alan, the group knew about it and has criticised the low dose and short duration. It is unlikely that serum 25(OH)D will rise fast enough with these doses: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04536298 The Argentina trial used 500,000 IU one-off in order to raise 25(OH)D as fast as the liver can hydroxylate D. Badly designed D3 trials , as that Harvard one, are not neutral. Thier failures add to the herd mentality of most medics that D3 is a fad. I do not regard D3 as a medicine and it is a mistake by many clinicians to treat it thus. Rather it is a hormone that is needed continually and at physiological serum levels, and to acheive that, in the absence of UVB, requires daily supplements of ca 4000 IU. It takes 2 to 3months at that dosage to reach a decent stable serum 25(OH)D of 100-150 nmol/L. (We all know that, I put it in just in case there a new readers joining the thread !) Peter Dose did not seem unreasonable to me but I agree the duration ( 4 weeks) is too short. Daily vitamin D3 (9600 IU/day on days 1 and 2; 3200 IU/day on days 3 through 28) Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 15 hours ago, foster461 said: Dose did not seem unreasonable to me but I agree the duration ( 4 weeks) is too short. Daily vitamin D3 (9600 IU/day on days 1 and 2; 3200 IU/day on days 3 through 28) Stan Day 1 is too late if C-19 has already got to the point of hospitalisation. D3 works slowly by comparison wiht the virus, we need to be well primed wiith D3 before the virus gets anyhwere near us. D3 works slowly: D3 works slowly - by genomic modulation. VDR receptor complexes act to demethylate around 23,000 sittes along the DNA in each nucleus. VDRs also promote histone acetylation in chromatin. In this way many VDRs act a superpromoters to activate promoters that themselves then activate clusters of genes. eg Nrf2 anti-oxidant defences. Other VDRs promote or supress single genes directly. Eventually these genes express protiens that change the phenotype of cells. It is a complex sequence and trials designed to test D3 that fial to recognise that are fundamentally flawed. They might sometimes report a prompt ( day or two) rise in 25(OH)D but all of the above then have to be implemented. Phenotpe change involves activaiton or repression of around 450 VDR-responsive genes Expression of VDRs themsleves is promoted by 1,25(OH)D, and suppressed by eg SNAIL It can be argued that chronic low 25(OH)D leads to low expression of VDRs, leading ot yet further delay in respoding to a step rise in 25(OH)D Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 15 hours ago, foster461 said: Dose did not seem unreasonable to me but I agree the duration ( 4 weeks) is too short. Daily vitamin D3 (9600 IU/day on days 1 and 2; 3200 IU/day on days 3 through 28) Stan Day 1 is too late if C-19 has already got to the point of hospitalisation. D3 works slowly by comparison wiht the virus, we need to be well primed wiith D3 before the virus gets anyhwere near us. D3 works slowly: D3 works slowly - by genomic modulation. VDR receptor complexes act to demethylate around 23,000 sittes along the DNA in each nucleus. VDRs also promote histone acetylation in chromatin. In this way many VDRs act a superpromoters to activate promoters that themselves then activate clusters of genes. eg Nrf2 anti-oxidant defences. Other VDRs promote or supress single genes directly. Eventually these genes express protiens that change the phenotype of cells. It is a complex sequence and trials designed to test D3 that fial to recognise that are fundamentally flawed. They might sometimes report a prompt ( day or two) rise in 25(OH)D but all of the above then have to be implemented. Phenotpe change involves activaiton or repression of around 450 VDR-responsive genes Expression of VDRs themsleves is promoted by 1,25(OH)D, and suppressed by eg SNAIL It can be argued that chronic low 25(OH)D leads to low expression of VDRs, leading ot yet further delay in respoding to a step rise in 25(OH)D Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 Links missing above: the first author is 17th Surgeon General, a POTUS appointee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carmona Link to article: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90530 Good to see such an eminent physician speaking out. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 10:32 AM, barkerwilliams said: A BBC program titled "Boosting Your Immune System" https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000r0hx BBC1 Wednesday 21:00 - no idea of the contents. Alan Much the same as the last programme. Nothing about Covid A snippet about sunshine. A great deal about Bacteria in the gut. Waste of space. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 Watched it, some good things said about D3, but not enough Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 I watched the program and for me it was too much of the gee whiz "its all about me" style of modern programs. I believe that stops it getting the message across, if i was not an interested party i would have turned it off. But for all that in the conclusions it recommended exercise, a healthy diet and focused on a 4000 iu vit d bottle, - perhaps they could not recommend a dose against Nice levels. So the message is there but only if you look hard and it needs a blunt meesage jamming down peoples throat! Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 The whole programme was disgusting. During a pandemic, a programme aired solely about boosting the immune system would suggest that it was helping against what was causing the pandemic C19. Not so - for the main part, more than 90%+ of the prog, it was talking about bacteria. It showed various foods, mainly containing Vit C. BUT!!!! most food does not contain the Hormone VitD3. On the table with the VitC food was a kipper or similar that probably contained the hormone VitD3 but it WASN'T mentioned. Very little talk of Virus and how to defeat it. No talk of VitD3 but there was about 30 seconds of Sunshine being good for you. Apparently a white skinned person only needs 10 minutes of sunshine to be sorted !!!! The bottle of Hormone supplement VitD3 had 1000IU & 25micrograms on the label - the presenter said you need about 10 micrograms to stay healthy. 10 micrograms or 400IU will keep those sodding rickets away but nothing else. The programme about improving your immune system during a pandemic was not about Covid 19 - which is the basis of the bloody pandemic. However she did manage to get pissed and get in every scene. Totally and utterly damned useless Stay safe. Stay away from BBC Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 The two shots of a bottle of 4000 IU D3 may reflect what she wanted to say, but was prevented by C-19 media rules. But as a nudge it was way too subtle for most viewers. Pretty sure I'd have missed it had D3 been below my radar. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bobbie Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 Agree with all comments about this programme, far too me, me,me. when we did get onto sunshine and it’s benefits, no mention of geographical location, angle of the sun etc. And, when we have been bombarded in recent years to apply suncream, even 15spf will eliminate 99% of vitamin D absorption. like others, one word, useless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 Am very encouraged by your scathing and informed comments on the prog. TRers following this thread must by now be the healthiest classic car owners on the planet ! Stay safe in 2021 Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 Another MedCram talk, includes D3 of course but the use of hot bath is interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuzanneH Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) Peter, I was made aware of this yesterday evening. I am not sure if you were aware of this or not. I can only post a screen shot as can’t save a direct link. Google free vitamin D3 to bring up this article. Free D3 for the Clinically Extremely Vulnerable, So the Govt must be aware. Edited January 9, 2021 by SuzanneH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 Can you have a Global Pandemic????? Bearing in mind what the word Pan means Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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