Dick Posted February 9, 2022 Report Share Posted February 9, 2022 It is a good point re non flammable cleaner.......should have mentioned it....I used Carplan water based engine cleaner. Do the spin drying outside.......definitely not the kitchen!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 TIMING COVER OIL SEAL REMOVAL The oil seal on 4VC’s crankshaft nose has been oozing for far too long, so I decided that replacement was overdue. Access is a pig of a job, involving first the removal of radiator and its hoses. However, the job is made more difficult on 4VC, which has the early type of chassis, with the steering rack mounted on a pair of vertical arms from the chassis, and, for competition, further bracing from a mating pair of downward arms from the cross tube. Once I had removed the timing cover, I found that the seal did not want to be removed. I didn’t want to use excessive force for fear of bending the pressed steel cover. I made a wooden brace to sit on the inside of the cover so that the force applied in removal of the old seal would be evenly distributed into the cover around the outside edge of the seal. The space between the outer edge of the seal and the curve in the pressed steel varies, so the wooden brace had to be fettled to fit in order that it would sit flat against the cover over the full 360 degrees. I chose q piece of timber about 0.75” thick, and my simple hole cutter provides steps to a maximum of 2.5” diameter, which was just large enough. Having cut the hole, I spent quite some time with saw and files, carving the outside of the wooden brace to fit snugly into the cover. With the brace in place, held with a screw from the outside (visible in 3rd photo), I was able to use a punch, inclined at an angle so as to engage with the inner lip of the old seal, to one side and then to the other, hitting the punch with a heavy hammer. The old seal then came away in a couple of minutes, with no damage to the cover. The old seal is marked 480003C and is as deep as the space inside the cover – which is why it was so difficult to remove. I could not find a reference to this seal anywhere, but it may have been there since 1992, or even 1964. The new seal, 104662, is only about half as deep. I can appreciate why Roger told me that the job is easier with the engine on the bench, but that is perhaps a step too far! Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, ianc said: TIMING COVER OIL SEAL REMOVAL The oil seal on 4VC’s crankshaft nose has been oozing for far too long, so I decided that replacement was overdue. Access is a pig of a job, involving first the removal of radiator and its hoses. However, the job is made more difficult on 4VC, which has the early type of chassis, with the steering rack mounted on a pair of vertical arms from the chassis, and, for competition, further bracing from a mating pair of downward arms from the cross tube. Once I had removed the timing cover, I found that the seal did not want to be removed. I didn’t want to use excessive force for fear of bending the pressed steel cover. I made a wooden brace to sit on the inside of the cover so that the force applied in removal of the old seal would be evenly distributed into the cover around the outside edge of the seal. The space between the outer edge of the seal and the curve in the pressed steel varies, so the wooden brace had to be fettled to fit in order that it would sit flat against the cover over the full 360 degrees. I chose q piece of timber about 0.75” thick, and my simple hole cutter provides steps to a maximum of 2.5” diameter, which was just large enough. Having cut the hole, I spent quite some time with saw and files, carving the outside of the wooden brace to fit snugly into the cover. With the brace in place, held with a screw from the outside (visible in 3rd photo), I was able to use a punch, inclined at an angle so as to engage with the inner lip of the old seal, to one side and then to the other, hitting the punch with a heavy hammer. The old seal then came away in a couple of minutes, with no damage to the cover. The old seal is marked 480003C and is as deep as the space inside the cover – which is why it was so difficult to remove. I could not find a reference to this seal anywhere, but it may have been there since 1992, or even 1964. The new seal, 104662, is only about half as deep. I can appreciate why Roger told me that the job is easier with the engine on the bench, but that is perhaps a step too far! Ian Cornish The original steel cased seal will probably be a leather double contact item. Is the new one? Someone offers a modern rubber type seal which is double lipped and 1/2” wide. knew I’d seen it…. try this one. https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/Imperial-Oil-Seals/W250175050R23-Imperial-Oil-Seal-99422-p What state is the pulley seal land area in? Has the seal worn a groove in it? Think about Speedi Sleeve. I’ve posted the size you need on this forum heap somewhere. ( That is for Marco’s entertainment) Peter W PS. Speedi Sleeve on the pulley (SKF CR99174 or 99175). 4 cyl TR. 99175 is easier to use as it is longer 1/2” rather than the 99174 at 3/8” Edited February 18, 2022 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Peter: I found this 274287466174 on ebay - it looks like the seal which I removed today and it is listed at £28.00. I have sent the vendor an email asking for thickness of the seal - my old seal is about 0.5" I'll inspect the seal land area very carefully as I don't want to have to do this job again! Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 If it is not the right one let me know as I think I know someone with an original spare Not me as my spare went in Keith’s engine last year. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 5 hours ago, ianc said: TIMING COVER OIL SEAL REMOVAL The oil seal on 4VC’s crankshaft nose has been oozing for far too long, so I decided that replacement was overdue. Access is a pig of a job, involving first the removal of radiator and its hoses. However, the job is made more difficult on 4VC, which has the early type of chassis, with the steering rack mounted on a pair of vertical arms from the chassis, and, for competition, further bracing from a mating pair of downward arms from the cross tube. Once I had removed the timing cover, I found that the seal did not want to be removed. I didn’t want to use excessive force for fear of bending the pressed steel cover. I made a wooden brace to sit on the inside of the cover so that the force applied in removal of the old seal would be evenly distributed into the cover around the outside edge of the seal. The space between the outer edge of the seal and the curve in the pressed steel varies, so the wooden brace had to be fettled to fit in order that it would sit flat against the cover over the full 360 degrees. I chose q piece of timber about 0.75” thick, and my simple hole cutter provides steps to a maximum of 2.5” diameter, which was just large enough. Having cut the hole, I spent quite some time with saw and files, carving the outside of the wooden brace to fit snugly into the cover. With the brace in place, held with a screw from the outside (visible in 3rd photo), I was able to use a punch, inclined at an angle so as to engage with the inner lip of the old seal, to one side and then to the other, hitting the punch with a heavy hammer. The old seal then came away in a couple of minutes, with no damage to the cover. The old seal is marked 480003C and is as deep as the space inside the cover – which is why it was so difficult to remove. I could not find a reference to this seal anywhere, but it may have been there since 1992, or even 1964. The new seal, 104662, is only about half as deep. I can appreciate why Roger told me that the job is easier with the engine on the bench, but that is perhaps a step too far! Ian Cornish When I couldn't remove my seal I carefully ground though it with a dremel and then repaired the minicule nick that I made in the cover with a dab of weld which I ground smooth. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted February 18, 2022 Report Share Posted February 18, 2022 I have neither Dremel nor welder, but plenty of timber! Tony Sheach tells me that he keeps a big lump of pipe for this job. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 18, 2022 Report Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, ianc said: I have neither Dremel nor welder, but plenty of timber! Tony Sheach tells me that he keeps a big lump of pipe for this job. Ian Cornish Moss engine build shop had a fly press punch to push seals out and in, plus timber supports for the timing cover. It was multi purpose as it supported the cover when the new seal was fly pressed in. Had a cut out to clear the timing pointer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted April 2, 2022 Report Share Posted April 2, 2022 Here is one for those who like to up-cycle scraps into very useful tools . . I must admit for all the expense of this particular tool, it has worked very well, has avoided a great deal of hurt, and made the job in hand so very much quicker and easier. . . Anyone guess what it has been so very useful for ? . . . . . no.. ? a clue is in the photo . . . . . . . . - well here's the answer . . . (click on icon to view picture) . . . . . . in short ; a backing support for cleaning wiring terminals of grime and their many years of oxidation ...so that the connection reverts back to having minimal losses due to electric resistance. This tool is handy when working in-situ as well as at the bench, and saves the power brush from taking the skin off my fingers ! Useful for cleaning the connections, if they are sound, and/or the stripped bare wires before soldering or crimping. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted October 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2022 (edited) Gosh, nothing since April! Ok, here's an idea. Any else use Rivnuts? These are an excellent way of fixing into a thin panel, by placing a fixed nut IN the panel. Better than a self-tapping screw, which needs a bigger one every time you remove and replace it. Rather than try and describe how they are inserted see: There are a number of different systems, they are aka "Rivet nut", "Nutserts" etc. All have their own design of insertion tool, that looks very similar to a pop-rivet tool, a large, specialised pair of pliers. I bought a set about a year ago, made by 'Laser', costing about £30. What a Faff! The arms of the 'pliers' open so wide that it's difficult to grip them in one hand, and the mandrel seized in the rivnut, making it difficult to take the tool off the work. Today I wanted to use it again and could NOT remove the tool! I had to rip the rivnut out of the panel. When I had wanted to use a large rivnut, M10, it was too large for this tool, and I found online a simpler tool: It's a bolt of the appropriate size, with on it a nut, a washer and a slider with recesses that will accept a spanner. It worked, and I thiught that if smeone can make it, someone else, me, can make another. So I did: From left to right: bolt (I didn't have suitably long bolt, so used a length of threaded rod, with a nut welded on top), double nut (welded together for maximum thread length), washer (piece of 2mm plate), sliding nut (nut with the threads drilled out, Rivnut. To secure the Rivnut, hold the bolt still and wind the double nut down to compress the Rivnut in the panel. And it works! John Homemade rivnut tool.htm Edited October 16, 2022 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 16, 2022 Report Share Posted October 16, 2022 The Rivnuts are excellent fasteners. As you have spotted the pliers have limitations. The Laser pliers are not that special. You can get much better pliers. Also ones with longer handles and Lazy Tong styles. Also pneumatic assisted 'pliers' are available. BUT - all at a price. Your simple bolt is ideal for the odd large rivnut. Especially if your using Stainless in anything at 6mm and above. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 There's a similar system for making very strong mountings into plasterboard, such as when mounting a switch onto the bathroom ceiling to control a light or an extractor fan. Works extremely well. Tool and inserts from Rawlplug - and probably from others. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted October 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 I have no doubt that plasterboard panels are the future for car bodies, but my TRiumph uses old technology. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 I have used rivnuts all round to hold the internal door panels on my TR3a - much better than the self tappers and indistinguishable oonce fitted. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dic Doretti Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 I was taking the tonneau off a Swallow Doretti today but it has a new mohair tonneau with new Tenax fasteners and some were so tight I couldn't move them. Off to the garage to find a pair of pliers I could modify but then a light bulb moment. On the keyring of my TR2 I bought in the summer was a strangely shaped piece of plastic which I thought to be a poorly made replacement for the traditional clothes peg on the choke but it was a Tenax remover and works really well and even fits the small Tenax, easily made from hard plastic or wood. Cheers Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 I made this to do the Tenax removal job. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) Rivnut experience: The one in my picture has a hexagonal profile Others are knurled around the perimeter, below the flange. Either is to grip the panel, because otherwise the rotation of the compressing nut can be transmitted via the washer and sliding nut so that the rivnut rotates, and is not compressed, but wound off the end of the bolt! This, of course , doesn't happen with the pliers-style tool. With the haxagonals, drill a slightly too small hole and drive the rivnut into the panel, so that the edges grip it. Insert a bolt of the right size and hammer on the head of that to 'pull' the rivnut in, with no risk of collapsing it prematurely. Next time, I will try lubricating the washer! John Edited October 19, 2022 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 Rivnuts are the work of the devil, like scotchlocks for wiring. Great for assembling things, but the very devil some years down the line when a bit of corrosion has developed and the rivnut turns in the panel. But here`s a tip, when fitting the rivnut, put a spot of locktite on the outside before squeezing it into place. The locktite sets and may just stop that nut from turning when you want to dismantle whatever it is holding. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Ralph Whitaker said: The locktite sets and may just stop that nut from turning when you want to dismantle whatever it is holding. I guess that it would also act as a seal to stop water getting between the rivnut and the panel and so lessen the chance of corrosion. Good idea. (So long as you remember where you put the Locktite.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 Just used 2 Rawlnuts with stainless screws to hold the number plate on the back of the trailer. Simple fitment and unlikely to corrode/seize. Thankfully I still have a few NOS of the ones that hold TR6 washer bottles to the inner wing with 10-32 unf threads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted October 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 5 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: Rivnuts are the work of the devil, like scotchlocks for wiring. Great for assembling things, but the very devil some years down the line when a bit of corrosion has developed and the rivnut turns in the panel. But here`s a tip, when fitting the rivnut, put a spot of locktite on the outside before squeezing it into place. The locktite sets and may just stop that nut from turning when you want to dismantle whatever it is holding. Ralph Each to their own, of course, but will Loctite really do this? In a thin panel, the area of metal contact will be tiny, compared to a nut and minuscule compared to a stud in a casting. If you want to do this, then an epoxy resin will grasp a much greater area of both RivNut and panel! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 Hi John, do not forget the crimped over faces where it pulls against top & bottom faces. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 I’ve used rivnuts with a hex body but they do require a hex punch or a bit of filing to make the hole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted October 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Drewmotty said: I’ve used rivnuts with a hex body but they do require a hex punch or a bit of filing to make the hole. My limited experience led me to drill a hole 1mm to small, and use a right sized bolt to 'pull' the RivNut into the hole. See my post above. Should be possible to make up a sort of bridging piece that would allow you to turn the bolt and pull it into place. 2 hours ago, RogerH said: Hi John, do not forget the crimped over faces where it pulls against top & bottom faces. Roger Sorry, Roger, I need pictures for that, or more words! Thanks. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 22, 2022 Report Share Posted October 22, 2022 Hi John, the rivnut will have a flange around its top for it to stop it passing through the hole. And when you pull it up the rivnut shank on the lower surface will pucker up and sit against the lower skin. So there is plenty of skin contact. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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