tomfpurves Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Hamish Rolls - Royce Car Division. I worked for them in their 3 different guises for 19 years from 66 to 85 but that's only relevant to this topic in that as apprentices in the late 60s you were either an Austin 7,MG or TR man ( they were all clapped out!) so we learned a lot about non RR cars in the garages of the apprentice's hostel. My experience of the period and the last minute saving of the entire R-R chassis records during a cost saving cull (they were saved by two Directors and the RREC) informs my understanding of the challenges associate with archival material of the period. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jocklow Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 THANKS TO ALL. I'd just like to thank you all for telling me about a car I once owned. As one of you observed it was just an ageing sports car then with limited availability of parts. I have been put in touch with the present owner who says it is indeed a basket case. I have a TR3A nowadays, which drives much the same as my old TR2. So I get the same enjoyment, albeit in a car that is just one of many. But I have an inner glow at the thought that I once had the first TR registered. Extraordinary! Jock Low Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr graham Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Given all that has been said in the above thread, is anybody going to try and action some of the points!! As BP said the archives need a proper archivist to make a full history of ST and this needs doing sooner than later , also the saving of what is after all THE FIRST TR must surely be a priority . As this car is equally as important as TS2 and the jabbeke car and far more valuable Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 I can't imagine why MWK 950 restored should be " far more valuable " than the Jabbeke car . . . . similar value, perhaps. More talking up values to no good purpose . . . . .  The current owner of MWK 950, or what's left of it, will make his own mind up as to the car's future . . . . . as he did with the Jabbeke car, and as he will no doubt eventually do with all his other interesting TRs.  The thoughts of the Forum are unlikely to influence the man one iota, and in any case neither the TR Register nor the Forum membership have any legal, or even moral, claim to make any input to the future of his collection.  As to the archives . . . . what remains in there is, from all I've heard in recent years, nothing to get excited about. Lots of magazines and photos and relatively little by way of original documentary history. I can't imagine for a moment that it justifies the services of a professional archivist, any more than I can imagine the membership wanting to pay for such a specialist . . . . .  The former management committee and subsequently the board have endeavoured to rationalise the situation, but the small team who have been patiently digitalising photos for some years past have, as I understand it, stepped down from their labours. Advancing age has wearied them. No doubt volunteers will at some point be welcome, but I can't imagine that the archives, such as they remain, are the board's greatest priority.  Cheers  Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Hi Alec  some time ago you wrote the following  http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/56215-tr-archives-enthusiastic-assistance-wanted-please/?hl=archivists  Some people volunteered myself included.  I have heard not a jot.......  Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Time to take up the archives issue with our new chairman, Paul Hogan . . . . !  Cheers  Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben's wife Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 I have enjoyed reading this topic so much. Fascinating story. Â Thanks, Â Vicky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr graham Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Firstly was not trying to talk up values, market forces will always take care of that , besides anything is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay. With regards to the current owner I am sure you are correct on that one, only pushed the archive one as B P seemed to think it needed attending to Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill.P. Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Correction.......Mike Ellis has pointed out to me that copies of the Triumph Prototype Register, mine included, were incorrectly put together in that on page 2 the two A4 halves that went to make up the A3 whole page were incorrectly aligned before the page was phptocopied....as a result, the "Gearbox only" statement I made last week re ORW666 /X516 should have referred to X515 , which was the prototype Diesel Vanguard van..... To recap, X 505 was the bobtailed 20 TS that was completed and ran, albeit unregistered, and which was on the stand at the 1952 ECMShow......it was later dismantled and parts used for MWK950 and MVC 575 Â X508 was (probably) the number allocated to the second, never completed 20 TS Bobtailed car. This was also dismantled with the parts re-used on both MWK and MVC....However, MWK950 took its X508 chassis number and became the first real TR2 and the first TR ever registered. Â X516 was ORW666, the first RHD TR, which wasn't registered till Dec 1953 Â X519 was the Jabbeke record car, registered 31/3/53 (for some reason the X505 number wasn't re-used for either ORW 666 or for MVC 575) Bill Piggott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill.P. Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Archives......to go further with the Archive point, I went to Didcot at the end of October last and spent some time in the archive room....clearly nothing has been done there for a very long time...we haven't really had an operational archivist for about 3 years now. Alec, there IS a good deal of original and unique ex factory material there...a lot of valuable stuff as well as a lot of valuable original sales literature. You are right in that is doesn't need a full time paid archivist on a permanent basis, but it needs the services of one on a contract of several months to sort things out, get them classified and in good order and up to date.....no volunteer in my view will have the time, knowledge or skill to do this as things are so far behind......the committee seems to show no inclination to do anything, as evinced by Iain and others, who had no reply to their offers to help......as has been said, it is given a very low priority......BP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr graham Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Bill Many thanks for replying to this topic !!! And especially the archives, perhaps one of officers can take this forward and maybe we can raise some funds to pay a professional to do this for us . After all glen Hewitt managed to raise sponsorship from moss for jabbeke car perhaps we could get one of the others to do this???? Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jocklow Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Further to MWK 950 -engine nos. The owner has sent me a copy of the logbook, which I'm pleased to see shows me as one of the owners. However of interest to others may be that the car was initially registered with engine no V175804, a vanguard engine, which was changed by Standard Motor Co to X571 in Jan 1954, and then later, in 1956 to TS31E (which apparently has a double barrelled thermostat). It was originally registered Blue and changed to British RAcing Green in 1956 before the last engine change, and presumably therefore while still owned by Standard Motor Co. By the late '60's it had reverted in the logbook to Blue. As has been reported in this chain earlier the chassis number is X508. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Well Done to the now Owner. Not every Owner would be so up front with those Details it also helps with more of the early History. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr graham Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 as the man said you sometimes only have to ask nicely Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 jocklow, do you have any photos of MWK 950 during your ownership? We love photos... Â (This has been an informative thread -- thanks for it.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike ellis Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Jock, Â In the log book does the manufacturers description simply say Sports as it does for MVC 575. Â Thanks in advance, Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike ellis Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I have had my question answered by the owner (aka 'you know who', aka 'a collector from West London') who said that the manufacturers description is simply Sports indicating that they had not arrived at a model name as this section is where TR2, TR3 etc appears normally.  He would also like to correct the information in post 37 in that the engine number should have an E suffix and that the original colour should state Ivory which was changed to Blue. The Ivory entry is crossed out and properly dated.  Mike   Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Mike, what was ivory? Off-white or something special? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike ellis Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Edwin, Â Ivory was a Standard Triumph colour, sort of creamy. Not sure what it appeared on but I am pretty sure it was on the Vanguard Sportsman at least, as one of its normally two tone colour scheme. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Ivory was a colour listed for the Sportsman, but it had been used previously as a 'special order' finish for earlier Standard Vanguards and for late Triumph Renown.  Cheers  Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) I have had my question answered by the owner (aka 'you know who', aka 'a collector from West London') who said that the manufacturers description is simply Sports indicating that they had not arrived at a model name as this section is where TR2, TR3 etc appears normally.  He would also like to correct the information in post 37 in that the engine number should have an E suffix and that the original colour should state Ivory which was changed to Blue. The Ivory entry is crossed out and properly dated.  Mike  It's good that the 'Collector' is open to an exchange of information with both MikeE and a previous owner.  He has always been open with many TRR members but seems to have taken umbrage with others, and perhaps the Register itself, for various reasons and cut off contact. I don't know all the reasons why.  My only criticism is that, through his commitment to researching so much of TR history, he has uncovered so much information that (currently, AFAIK) is in his head rather than documented.  Long time ago, he came to visit me in Hong Kong. Had a wonderful two days talking of nothing but TRs. Can't remember what year - must be around 30 years ago.  AlanR Edited January 21, 2017 by TR 2100 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2long Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 I love hearing about this information! Here is a nice little ad for the car before the TR2 moniker came around:   Cheers  Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jocklow Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I have three photos from my brief ownership. They are from the winter of 1967, so it is perhaps unsurprising that they are black and white. I only have the prints so the quality is not brilliant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Jock  thank you for sharing these, all adds to the wonderful story.  Iain Edited January 21, 2017 by iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doretti Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Bill Lynn has asked me to post the following contribution on his behalf. I’m just the messenger. "This factory photo shows a car which I think is MWK 950 (X508). The photo shows a rather dirty bobtail prototype which I speculate was being extensively test driven after its debut. John Saunders was going to compare this photo against other factory photos he had, to make sure my speculation held up. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, John never completed his research before his stroke. The reasons why I think the photo is of MWK 950 is that if you look at the photo of ORW 666, (which appeared earlier in this thread), ORW 666 has tripod headlights and for some strange reason, the windscreen wipers park to the right instead of to the left as would be typical for a RHD vehicle. Take a look at the two pictures and you will see what I mean. By the way, is that Ken Richardson driving in the picture of ORW 666? Bill Lynn" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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