They finally got me

[TR Rob]

My nephew had his brand new Range Rover stolen from outside his house by someone cloning the key, reported to police but never recovered. Insurance paid out and he replaced it with another new Range Rover, when he came to re-insure his insurance refused him cover, and the ‘cheapest’ quote he could obtain was circa £8k per annum. He approached Range Rover as the manufacturer, and they would not insure him as they said, they were one of the most stolen vehicles and therefore uninsurable.

Result he sold it back to Range Rover and got a deal with insurance on a new Defender with tracker.
 

[Charlie D]

If keyless cars are so easy to steal doesn’t it mean that the system is “Not fit for purpose” and the manufacturers should be held responsible for any thefts that happen because of the system?

The shortcomings of the system have been known about for several years, yet the manufacturers still build cars with it.

Or doesn't the law work like that.

 

Charlie

[stuart]

Back in the Seventies I had a MK4 Zodiac that had come out of a car auction, It had obviously been stolen/recovered as it didnt have an ignition key or even the switch instead it had an on/off switch on the dash and a push button starter, I used to leave that all over the place unlocked and no one ever bothered to steal it, moral is drive something no one wants then its never going to get stolen.

Stuart.

[Cew]

On 3/31/2024 at 8:56 AM, RobH said:

I believe all PCCs are up for election in May.  That's something else I was never asked whether I wanted.  

I intend to write to that effect on the ballot paper, as to me the post is just another pointless layer of bureaucracy. 

I contacted our PCC earlier this year when a friend needed to dispose of some kitchen knives and the only solution seemed to be the local recycling tip, however, there is no dedicated secure storage in these places so the knives just go in the scrap metal skip. Our local Police stations are rarely open for public access which was why I tried to bring the subject up with the PCC in view of the increase in knife crime, after a fortnight or so I received a standard reply email saying the powers that be are doing all they can about knife crime but not addressing the actual email I had sent. PCCs a total waste of time and (serious!) money

[barkerwilliams]

If you have a modern and are worried about theft then the modern electronic big brother in the car offers a wealth of options. For example you fit a simple switch in the brake pedal switch. Many vehicles need the brake to be pressed to start the engine. No brake switch pressed - no start, each make has their own foibles but a similar approach with a switch and a couple of metres of wire can effectively disable a vehicle and not as obvious as a battery isolation switch.

Alan

[PodOne]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:32 PM, barkerwilliams said:

If you have a modern and are worried about theft then the modern electronic big brother in the car offers a wealth of options. For example you fit a simple switch in the brake pedal switch. Many vehicles need the brake to be pressed to start the engine. No brake switch pressed - no start, each make has their own foibles but a similar approach with a switch and a couple of metres of wire can effectively disable a vehicle and not as obvious as a battery isolation switch.

Alan

Thanks for the advice Alan I'll be giving it a go on our cars as both require the brake pedal to be pressed.

Andy

[JohnG]

Got a call from Essex Police this morning

The Met have recovered my car!  and I'm notified on the day I took delivery of its replacement.

Apparently it's at the Police pound in Perivale.
It's not mine now, so my only interest is in getting back the stuff I didn't claim for on the insurance;
Prescription sunglasses
Boots; walking for the use of
Photos of my wife
Some papers related to the death of my nephew, which I planned to give to his mum when I see her in a couple of weeks.
Some other bits and pieces

Guess what;
There is no phone number for the Perivale pound, on which I can talk to a real, breathing person.
Back to the email and a minimum 2 day wait.

God . . .there are times when I hate the advance of technology, I mean, really hate it

[RobH]

23 minutes ago, PodOne said:

Thanks for the advice Alan I'll be giving it a go on our cars as both require the brake pedal to be pressed.

Whether that is possible will depend on just how modern the cars are.    You may not find any wires to disconnect - for the last decade at least, most cars have used a computer  'bus' system for their electrics and sensors - usually CAN bus - and things like switches are often plugged directly into it.    Interfere with that at your peril. 

[PodOne]

1 hour ago, RobH said:

Whether that is possible will depend on just how modern the cars are.    You may not find any wires to disconnect - for the last decade at least, most cars have used a computer  'bus' system for their electrics and sensors - usually CAN bus - and things like switches are often plugged directly into it.    Interfere with that at your peril. 

Thanks for the warning Rob nothing is simple is it? Both cars are of the CAN NOT TOUCH variety!!

[Hamish]

On a modern car go for a Ghost security device and or a tracker

https://www.trackershop-uk.com/ghost-immobiliser.html

 

pleased to say my scorpion camper tracker was activated (by me) and I got a tel call from a real person and a text to say the van was on the move without the ignition on or fob in proximity.

we were on the Oban ferry.

very happy with the tracker company monitoring.

[JohnG]

1 hour ago, Hamish said:

On a modern car go for a Ghost security device and or a tracker

https://www.trackershop-uk.com/ghost-immobiliser.html

 

pleased to say my scorpion camper tracker was activated (by me) and I got a tel call from a real person and a text to say the van was on the move without the ignition on or fob in proximity.

we were on the Oban ferry.

very happy with the tracker company monitoring.

 

Ghost II being fitted tomorrow morning

Expensive?

Yes, but at least I know I'll have a car in the morning 

[Misfit]

12 hours ago, JohnG said:

God . . .there are times when I hate the advance of technology, I mean, really hate it

Me too, especially when attempting to make an appointment at the GP having phoned at 8.32 to find you are in a queue number 21 and finally having stayed on the phone, told there are no appointments available use our app and then read after 10 of pointless questions and numerous tick boxes none relating to you, we hope to reply without 4 days Or when you phone your bank, have you tried our app, following there is likely be a delay of 40 minutes. 

Still if we didn’t hate that we’d have to find something else, it’s an age thing I’m told. We’re the grumps.

 

[Kiwifrog]

41 minutes ago, Misfit said:

Me too, especially when attempting to make an appointment at the GP having phoned at 8.32 to find you are in a queue number 21 and finally having stayed on the phone, told there are no appointments available use our app and then read after 10 of pointless questions and numerous tick boxes none relating to you, we hope to reply without 4 days Or when you phone your bank, have you tried our app, following there is likely be a delay of 40 minutes. 

Still if we didn’t hate that we’d have to find something else, it’s an age thing I’m told. We’re the grumps.

 

Not an age thing, when I worked in IT the users told the computer what to do, these days it’s the computer giving the orders. I remember in the 90’s going to a presentation by oracle on the future of the web.
 

One of the things they got really excited about was the fact that the end user would end up doing all the administration by completing web based forms which meant that companies could reduce administrative staffing levels and increase their bottom line

looks like they were right but service levels have plummeted and anything out of the ordinary is impossible to process!

[Misfit]

Thank you Kiwifrog for this insight to your world, I am not surprised, I’m no longer angry I’m bloody depressed too.

Regards Derek 

[JohnG]

9 hours ago, Misfit said:

Me too, especially when attempting to make an appointment at the GP having phoned at 8.32 to find you are in a queue number 21 and finally having stayed on the phone, told there are no appointments available use our app and then read after 10 of pointless questions and numerous tick boxes none relating to you, we hope to reply without 4 days Or when you phone your bank, have you tried our app, following there is likely be a delay of 40 minutes. 

Still if we didn’t hate that we’d have to find something else, it’s an age thing I’m told. We’re the grumps.

 

Grandchildren know me as Grumps!

It fits 

[Ian Vincent]

On 3/31/2024 at 2:06 PM, TR Rob said:

My nephew had his brand new Range Rover stolen from outside his house by someone cloning the key, reported to police but never recovered. Insurance paid out and he replaced it with another new Range Rover, when he came to re-insure his insurance refused him cover, and the ‘cheapest’ quote he could obtain was circa £8k per annum. He approached Range Rover as the manufacturer, and they would not insure him as they said, they were one of the most stolen vehicles and therefore uninsurable.

Result he sold it back to Range Rover and got a deal with insurance on a new Defender with tracker.
 

A bit late in the day, but why is he buying/ has he bought a Defender? I recently bought a new  (to me) SUV and I avoided Range Rover completely because of this issue of cloning. The only way to impact the manufacturer is through sales. If the public stops buying cars with keyless go, the manufacturers would be forced to come up with something more secure. 

Rgds Ian

 

Edited April 8 by Ian Vincent

[TR Rob]

Apparently the new Defenders have a much better security system than new Range Rovers which are based on ‘old’ technology. Why did he buy another Land Rover product… the only reason was they were the only ones who would economically part exchange his new Range Rover for a new Defender. The Defender was also fitted with a factory fitted tracking unit 

Edited April 8 by TR Rob
Addition

[c.hydes]

I got involved with the technology of modern car key fob technology whilst working with a company for keyless access in another application. The technology using a 40 bit "code hoping" pseudo random number generator providing approx. 1 trillion possible codes. Very secure but as previously discussed can be copied.

For those interested see  https://auto.howstuffworks.com/remote-entry2.htm?srch_tag=usysgqa4xbvavqgrfd36edp3ebmanipg

C/  

[Lebro]

Trouble is pseudo random isn't random enough !

[duncan]

I believe the way to get a police reaction is to advise them that you have traced the culprits & intend to retrieve your car, with a number of mates' (squaddies) help.  They don't like you doing their job for them & possibly giving them more work clearing up the "mess" the squaddies have unintentionally (!!!) left.