30 >>> 20 mph across Wales

[Peter Cobbold]

From Sept 17th almost all current 30 mph speed limit zones will become 20 mph throughout Wales:

https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/7139/new-20-mph-speed-limit-wales

Most A and B roads in Wales are, for the low traffic usage, appallingly dangerous. And not only bikers. I'd not be surprised if the 20mph scheme is deemed to be justified, that a blanket 50 mph is then introduced on non-dual carriageways.

Peter

 

[stuart]

Same about to happen throughout Cornwall too.

Stuart.

[Peter V W]

I live in one of the TRial areas. Not so easy driving at 20 mph, only two gears required.

Some 40mph limits have been reduced to 30mph, also some 70mph limits

reduced to 50mph.

Lots of tailgating and passing by bicycles.

 

[harlequin]

Most of the villages around  here now have 20mph speed limit, I think its a good idea in residential areas but since the 30mph limit is not enforced its a bit pointless.

On a lighter note my neighbour was complaining that his new electric  Lexus won't keep down to 20 without keep touching the brakes.

George 

[PodOne]

Nanny society at its best.

I get it where schools are concerned but a blanket change I don't. Brakes and car design have come a long way since the horse and cart. 

Are the kamikaze cyclists going to abide, or the electric scooter brigade I doubt it. At the present rate of loony Woke political change you won't need a car at all.

Why don't they put the effort into enforcing the current speed limits and sorting the people who flout them and cause the problems or would that be too much to ask.

Besides I thought they were national speed limits and not the remit of quasi political governments paid for by the English tax payer. Personally I'd sweep them away along with Khan and all his ilk as they seem to be doing more harm than good to the fabric of the Uk just layer upon layer of more useless politicians who long ceased living in the real world.

Idiots!

Ah well it should bring some interesting debate.

Andy.  

[RobH]

Ii would go as far as to say this is bad for road safety. It can actually be difficult to drive at that speed unless you keep your eyes glued to the speedo rather than to the road where they ought to be, particularly in town. My slush-box automatic car has no engine braking at slow speed, so like George's neighbour I would be riding the brakes too. 

[Peter Cobbold]

Single track roads in Wales have a blanket 40mph limit, but unsigned. Mind you, even 10 mph is too fast on most, amongst the twisty bits. But traffic is low so we usually stop and have a chat when passing a neighbour. A slower pace of life has its attractions, at least as I get older it does.

[Paul Hogan]

I regularly drive into Wales and my journey takes me along the A40 and from Brecon to the coast over some very nice flowing roads but which are now littered with 20 mph signs . No one actually voted for any of this.  The politicians wont be satisfied until they have reintroduced a man with a red flag walking in front of our cars.  In my own village here in England a circular came round from the local council asking for support for a 20 mph in my village as it would improve road safety and cut deaths and accidents. When I asked him for the data to back up his claim, guess what? no data was available!  It's a CON ! 

 

Hoges. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Paul Hogan

[Misfit]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:30 PM, RobH said:

Ii would go as far as to say this is bad for road safety. It can actually be difficult to drive at that speed unless you keep your eyes glued to the speedo rather than to the road where they ought to be, particularly in town. My slush-box automatic car has no engine braking at slow speed, so like George's neighbour I would be riding the brakes too. 

Absolutely, watching the speedo as much as the road can’t be ideal, even the cruise control at 20 struggles to maintain it.  It’s may be ok if you have the speed projected on the screen but, in my TR6 no chance. Love renting a property and driving the TR in Wales too. it’s time to look elsewhere I guess. 

Newton Abbot had similar plans the residents had their say and it was squashed. Here in our village they they have implemented the 20 on safety ground to save lives,  we had a similar response to Paul when ask how many death or serious injuries in the village over the last 10 years none. I accept it around the village school. Mind you the local buses including the school bus clearly don’t respect it.

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Misfit

[Motorsport Mickey]

You’ll find a speed limiter far more use than cruise control. Drive at the required speed…and activate speed control.
Normally you can rest your foot on the throttle which goes down to the mechanical stop, if an obstruction or slower traffic is met, foot off throttle and the car loses speed as normal or you brake to a stop.
The advantage is unlike cruise control, speed limiter is still activated, so foot back on throttle down to floor and the car resumes up to the limit.

I’ve supplied dozens of trucks with speed limiter on, as against, or including cruise control additionally. To a man the drivers all object to a speed limiter ( bizarrely not the cruise control) but after a city centre demonstration they start to see the advantage.  After a few months using it they would fight you if you went to remove it !
It allows drivers to watch road conditions and hazards without speedo watching, just responding to slowing or increasing speed of traffic without risk of exceeding speed limits.

You can retro fit to cars I believe, even those without ECUs.

Mick Richards

Edited August 23, 2023 by Motorsport Mickey

[SuzanneH]

57 minutes ago, Misfit said:

Absolutely, watching the speedo as much as the road can’t be ideal, even the cruise control at 20 struggles to maintain it.  It’s may be ok if you have the speed projected on the screen but, in my TR6 no chance. Love renting a property and driving the TR in Wales too. it’s time to look elsewhere I guess. 

Newton Abbot had similar plans the residents had their say and it was squashed. Here in our village they they have implemented the 20 on safety ground to save lives,  we had a similar response to Paul when ask how many death or serious injuries in the village over the last 10 years none. I accept it around the village school. Mind you the local buses including the school bus clearly don’t respect it.

 

We have a school round the corner to us and in that road the speed is limited to 20mph and there are a couple of speed humps. Our road meets this 20mph limited road at 45 degrees and is unrestricted even though the children walk down and the parents also park in our road to get to the school. Our bit of our road is very straight for a good distance and cars come screaming down to the corner.

One day there is going to be a very bad accident here…!

[ntc]

It’s only a matter of time before the car will not let you exceed the speed limit.

[stuart]

18 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

You’ll find a speed limiter far more use than cruise control. Drive at the required speed…and activate speed control.
Normally you can rest your foot on the throttle which goes down to the mechanical stop, if an obstruction or slower traffic is met, foot off throttle and the car loses speed as normal or you brake to a stop.
The advantage is unlike cruise control, speed limiter is still activated, so foot back on throttle down to floor and the car resumes up to the limit.

I’ve supplied dozens of trucks with speed limiter on, as against, or including cruise control additionally. To a man the drivers all object to a speed limiter ( bizarrely not the cruise control) but after a city centre demonstration they start to see the advantage.  After a few months using it they would fight you if you went to remove it !
It allows drivers to watch road conditions and hazards without speedo watching, just responding to slowing or increasing speed of traffic without risk of exceeding speed limits.

You can retro fit to cars I believe, even those without ECUs.

Mick Richards

Had that on a Scania 3 series, very useful as you say especially back in the day when truck limit was 40mph on A roads

Stuart.

[stuart]

16 hours ago, ntc said:

It’s only a matter of time before the car will not let you exceed the speed limit.

Lots of work vans are already limited.

Stuart.

[RobH]

[Charlie D]

19 hours ago, Misfit said:

...watching the speedo as much as the road can’t be ideal...

On 8/21/2023 at 9:30 PM, RobH said:

...It can actually be difficult to drive at that speed unless you keep your eyes glued to the speedo rather than to the road...

Hmmmmm….

Something seems a bit odd about that statement.

Yes, it is true that you have to keep looking down at your speedo if you are in a 20MPH zone, but you also have to keep looking down at your speedo if you are in a 60MPH zone. (Or any other speed restricted zone.)

It is the only way to tell if you are speeding

PLUS…

At 60MPH you will travel a much longer distance when you glance down at the speedo than you would if you were doing it at 20MPH.

Which makes the 20MPH zone even safer.

(Or have I got it wrong...)

Charlie.

[RobH]

The point is that is is VERY easy at ultra-low speeds for the speed to creep up inadvertently. The car is probably in a low gear so there is lots of torque available and the slightest touch on the loud pedal will raise the speed quickly.  Also on a downhill section it will again be very easy to creep above the limit due to gravity assistance, particularly in an automatic car with no engine braking.  None of that really applies at 60mph. 

 

[Deggers]

"If they want the motorist to slow down, they should provide something worth slowing down for!"   

Deggers

Edited August 24, 2023 by Deggers

[stuart]

40 minutes ago, Deggers said:

"If they want the motorist to slow down, they should provide something worth slowing down for!"   

Deggers

Notice the central throttle pedal, that would fool most these days.

Stuart.

[keith1948]

A delivery driver doing 60 miles in a 30 zone takes 2 hours. In a 20 zone they will take 3 hours. I trust the Welsh government have factored in the 50% increase in time for deliveries when in the controlled zones. At a stroke they have disadvantaged haulage and delivery companies across the country. Drivers taking 50% longer to deliver so increasing business costs.

An electric car weighs a lot more than a petrol or diesel car. Accident figures are from surveys on cars currently on the road and these are predominantly petrol or diesel. They say accident and injury rates at 20mph will be less than at 30mph unless of course you are in an electric car in which case they will be similar to the current figure at 30mph. So in order to improve public safety, electric cars should have a lower speed limit of say 10mph especially since they are silent.

Discuss...........

Keith

[Peter Cobbold]

3 hours ago, RobH said:

The point is that is is VERY easy at ultra-low speeds for the speed to creep up inadvertently. The car is probably in a low gear so there is lots of torque available and the slightest touch on the loud pedal will raise the speed quickly.  Also on a downhill section it will again be very easy to creep above the limit due to gravity assistance, particularly in an automatic car with no engine braking.  None of that really applies at 60mph. 

 

Yes, and there's only 4 mph leeway between legal and speeding. I do wonder if my moderns' speedos read that precisely ?

[PodOne]

At 20mph rush hours and congestion are likely to be longer and hence so called air pollution higher cars run more efficiently at more normal speeds.

I wonder how much of this logic is to make up for the lack of enforcement of current limits by reducing the limit it makes the need to enforce go away. That said there will be more people driving over 20mph as they quite rightly think its a joke and being cynical maybe its another income generation scheme.

If they truly want to improve safety in built up areas consider removing most of the road signs (other than schools and one way) then folk will have to drive to the conditions they face rather than being reliant on prompts. Believe this is in place in Holland where road space is shared. 

Andy    

[stuart]

20 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said:

Yes, and there's only 4 mph leeway between legal and speeding. I do wonder if my moderns' speedos read that precisely ?

As my Volvo is ex-Police it has a fully calibrated speedo so yes it is accurate!

Stuart.

[Peter Cobbold]

1 hour ago, stuart said:

As my Volvo is ex-Police it has a fully calibrated speedo so yes it is accurate!

Stuart.

I had a stand-alone GPS-based speed-alert device and that showed our Dacia was reading about 3 or 4 mph fast at a true 30mph. Havent yet tested at 20 mph.

Unless we were on a steep hill -up or  down - when the GPS showed a slower speed than the speedo. As would be expected from the different geometries.

Peter

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:44 PM, Motorsport Mickey said:

You’ll find a speed limiter far more use than cruise control. Drive at the required speed…and activate speed control.
Normally you can rest your foot on the throttle which goes down to the mechanical stop, if an obstruction or slower traffic is met, foot off throttle and the car loses speed as normal or you brake to a stop.
The advantage is unlike cruise control, speed limiter is still activated, so foot back on throttle down to floor and the car resumes up to the limit.

I’ve supplied dozens of trucks with speed limiter on, as against, or including cruise control additionally. To a man the drivers all object to a speed limiter ( bizarrely not the cruise control) but after a city centre demonstration they start to see the advantage.  After a few months using it they would fight you if you went to remove it !
It allows drivers to watch road conditions and hazards without speedo watching, just responding to slowing or increasing speed of traffic without risk of exceeding speed limits.

You can retro fit to cars I believe, even those without ECUs.

Mick Richards

Am Simply delighted by the original fitment speed limiter on my non ulez compliant £30.00 a year road tax due to low co2 emissions, 12 year old diesel Citroen.

I can count on the fingers of one foot the times I have used the cruise control.    The speed limiter is a god send in average speed camera spied sections of road where no one is actually working, but they have stored their cones.

The blanket 20 mph limit has already been criticised by the emergency services as it will affect response times due to slower moving traffic and kamikaze cyclists.   TfL grizzled it would totally scupper their time tables for bus routes passing through or crossing boroughs that introduced them.