John Morrison Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 Group member bought 20 shiny new wheels nuts recently, from one of our major suppliers. This is how they compared to an original, (The dirty one) and he asked me my thoughts. I thought they would be a dangerous fitment and advised he didn't fit them, but returned for a refund. This he duly did and we obtained 20 good originals from a regular contributor here. What would others have done? John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) Measuring from the photo, the original nut has a 60 degree taper and the new one 90 degree. 60 is quite common, 90 less so and will not engage properly with the taper in the wheel so that the clamping will be affected. The nut will engage only with a shallow area at the outer part of the taper instead of the full depth and so will tend to deform the wheel taper as the nut is tightened, since the load at the contact area will be rather higher than intended. Any flexing under load while driving could cause the nut to loosen or possibly the wheel to fracture by fatigue with time. In my opinion you are right to reject them and the supplier should be notified of this error and the safety connotation pointed out (and their liability). As a matter of urgency they should notify any customer to whom they have supplied these incorrect nuts. Edited June 21, 2023 by RobH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 Guesses who supplied? Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, stuart said: Guesses who supplied? Stuart Oh dear. You have to wonder what wheel nut the remakers copied as the taper angle is so wrong. They did not get the relieved threads either to assist starting the nut on the stud when fitting. Edited June 21, 2023 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 Unfortunately only a few of those who frequent the forum will see this. Being as it potentially affects safety, maybe it should be highlighted in TRAction to reach a wider audience, in case others have bought these too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 Bought some SS ones from TR Shop which are a good fit just needed a bit of a polish. Just ensure that any paint is removed from the wheels where the contact surfaces are to ensure a good connection to the hub. That narrows it down a bit! Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, RobH said: Unfortunately only a few of those who frequent the forum will see this. Being as it potentially affects safety, maybe it should be highlighted in TRAction to reach a wider audience, in case others have bought these too? Which is why I asked for supplier. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dblenk Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 i better go and check mine have not put them against the old ones !!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trchris Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 I agree with Stuart which supplier ? If someone has purchased these recently from the same place they can check and possibly advert a serious event happening by removing and replacing with the correct nuts, and anyone else from purchasing from them, the same wrong wheel nuts. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 It may not be just one retailer who has these. The same maker may supply more than one retailer. Now that this case has come to light I think it would be prudent to suggest that everyone who has bought new wheel-nuts for OEM steel wheels, should check that the angle of the taper is 60 degrees - regardless of where they were bought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 It might be worth checking first of all that the guy hasn’t bought the wrong wheel nuts, or been accidentally sold the wrong ones, so might not be **** at all? Looks like a 45* angle as opposed to 60*. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OldBob Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 7 hours ago, PodOne said: Bought some SS ones from TR Shop which are a good fit just needed a bit of a polish. Just ensure that any paint is removed from the wheels where the contact surfaces are to ensure a good connection to the hub. That narrows it down a bit! Andy Andy, SS? - Stainless Steel ? An informative article covering the pluses & negative characteristics of Stn. Steel was published a little while ago by the TR Register Technical editor, Mike Jennings. Worth a read to see the kind of fixings on a TR which should not be changed from original spec. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 Hi Bob Yes Stainless not heard of any issues with them. The cheaper after market chrome offerings soon seem to peel. I've used SS fastenings for in a lot of applications where they are exposed to moisture including the inlet/exhaust manifolds. Can you remember roughly when the article appeared as I'd like to have a read. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PodOne said: Hi Bob Yes Stainless not heard of any issues with them. The cheaper after market chrome offerings soon seem to peel. I've used SS fastenings for in a lot of applications where they are exposed to moisture including the inlet/exhaust manifolds. Can you remember roughly when the article appeared as I'd like to have a read. Andy Point being that apart from special formulations of SS that are stronger the general consensus is you shouldn’t use it to fasten any stressed components I.e. suspension etc as it’s brittle but fine for trim or panel fittings. Stuart Edited June 21, 2023 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 Also stainless fasteners tend to seize together. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, stuart said: Point being that apart from special formulations of SS that are stronger the general consensus is you shouldn’t use it to fasten any stressed components I.e. suspension etc as it’s brittle but fine for trim or panel fittings. Stuart That's good to hear Stuart as I've not used SS on the suspension but mainly body fixings such as the doors, wings etc Cant say I've had any past issues with SS seizing together Pete (Cold Welding?) but lots of mild steel rusted ones! Andy Edited June 21, 2023 by PodOne Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 Not read the SS suitability article. But I think what is being said here - May be too subtlety- Andy is that SS wheel nuts are a stressed fixing and not the ideal material for a wheel nut. it’s not an aesthetic issue of not being shiny enough requiring polishing nor about surface chrome peeling. They may be sold to do that job!, but how many times have we seen suboptimal offerings across the board !! I'm happy enough to race on alloys with slightly tatty chromed sleeve nuts knowing they’ll hold the wheels on. and I probably swap my wheels 20 times a year hence the tattyness. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 James Shackford has had some lovely wheel nuts made from Tungsten, they're £270/set though.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, iani said: James Shackford has had some lovely wheel nuts made from Tungsten Well that will increase the unsprung weight for sure - or did you actually mean Titanium? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 Having worked in the nuclear industry I can confirm that SS should not be used for stressed fastenings unless you are using some of the more exotic grades. And it is particularly susceptible to stress corrosion in salty environments. Oh, and it is also susceptible to ‘picking up’ and seizing. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 Hi Folks, had a quick look at my chart and possibly 410 has the strength but is not overly stainless in dodgy environments. Is it possible to pop a SS sleeve over the steel wheel nut for appearance. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 hour ago, RogerH said: Hi Folks, had a quick look at my chart and possibly 410 has the strength but is not overly stainless in dodgy environments. Is it possible to pop a SS sleeve over the steel wheel nut for appearance. Roger For an exposed tube nut end then possibly but for standard steel nuts which are normally behind a hub cap (As in the OP) theres not much point. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trchris Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 Is the recommendation then not to use stainless wheel nuts? Only someone l know has just replaced all his on his 6 he got his set from some brothers in Lincolnshire Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 Hi Chris, obviously a wheel nut is important - you do not want to lose too many off one wheel. However how much stress/load are they under. I don't think anybody has done a study. The torque tightening is about 60lb. ft. but that is of little interest. Going in a straight line there is very little load on the nuts. Cornering/kerbing is of great interest. Take for instance an offside front tyre turning left. The 12-o-clock position wheel nuts will try to push the nut off the stud. The bottom of the tyre and the 6-o-clock nut will have little load trying to push the nut off. The tyre itself being rubber if very forgiving Somebody with a few more grey cells than me should be able to calculate the loads I would suggest that stainless nuts would work quite well. Certainly worth a try and keep an eye on them. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 hour ago, trchris said: Is the recommendation then not to use stainless wheel nuts? Only someone l know has just replaced all his on his 6 he got his set from some brothers in Lincolnshire Chris Best get him to check the angles on them then. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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