Adrian Carter Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Hi all, I have a 57 TR3 that refuses to run properly. I have done probably 20 miles in it and after 10 minutes it just dies and then doesn’t start again. I have spent £3000 getting a classic car garage to fit new carbs and go through fuel and electrics. They have given up on it with no results. They did say that the coil keeps burning out. Fuel line was rerouted to back of engine, it has a kenlowe fan and new rad fitted. They also checked earth straps and blew through fuel pipes from tank to carbs. Looking on forums it seems there is an issue with second rate coils failing but is that my problem? Any help gratefully received, if it isn’t resolved I will be forced to have a very stern word with it! Thanks Adrian. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Sounds like you went to the wrong "classic car" garage then. I think that to take £3000 off you and then give you the car back un fixed is downright disgusting and I sympathise with you. What is the history of the car?, have you just bought it?, has it been standing for a long while?. Much more info is needed in order to give any kind of diagnosis, but if it keeps burning out coils then there is something wrong with the ignition system. Has it had an electronic ignition conversion to do away with the points and condenser?, if so different systems require coils of different resistances and need to be matched. It would seem that they suspected the fuel system, why? and if the fuel line is being blocked then surely the tank needs cleaning out. Is the breather pipe clear, is there a vent hole in the filler cap blocked, does running with the cap slightly open cure the problem. It needs someone to start at the beginning and work through everything logically, preferably someone with experience of working on TRs. Where are you based? Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Wow Adrian thats some tale of woe. Firstly let me welcome you to our forum sure we’ll get answers for you here can’t believe with the money you’ve spent this hasn’t considered but I would change the condenser Other question you say it runs for ten minutes and then stops how long before it will start again john Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) Assuming what they are telling you is correct and that the coil really is burnt out, do you know what type and model number they have been fitting Adrian? Having a new one "just burn out' after ten minutes running is highly unusual - and apart from it being the wrong type there really isn't anything that could go wrong electrically to cause this. Do you have an electrical test-meter? If so you could try measuring the coil winding resistances to prove this is the fault. The primary winding between the two base terminals should be about 3 Ohms. The secondary between the HT connection and either of the terminals should be 7000 to 12000 Ohms. Where are you? There should be a local group of the register who could most likely help you with this. Edited April 28, 2023 by RobH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Perhaps the coil which has been fitted is of the type which requires a ballast resistor in normal running. If this type of coil is fitted to a TR which supplies full battery voltage to the coil all the time (as on TR2/3/4), then the coil will get cooked. A TR4 requires a non-ballasted coil. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Hi Adrian, where do you live? There are decent (Triumph) garages all over the country It may be worth contacting Martin Jay DizzyDoc to get a decent distributor and perhaps discuss your issues. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRier Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Hi Adrian, you've had some good responses there. Be sure that the coil is faulty, you'll get a model numer off it, google that and see what the primary and secondary resistance is supposed to be. The primary it'll be likely 3 ohms or 1.5. The garage looking at this sounds appalling, when it gets like that you cant trust anything so check as suggested above the secondary and primary resistance and then check that the coil is specified for the correct voltage. Many of the older cars used a 9V coil supplied through a ballast wire or resistor, I'm not sure about all the TR3s but certainly mine does not use a ballast system so the coil is 12V, if the garage bought the first coil they came across and its a 9V designed for a ballast system it will burn out. Make sure you have a 12V coil then assuming your 3 is set up for 12 V (check the voltage at the coil when the starter is not engaged). See attached photo for how to check the resitance. I've recently had ignition problems with a faulty rotor, thats a possibility, not for burning out the coil but for the ignition problems, there are some really crappy rotor arms out there, this one tested fine on a simple resistance check but caused misfiring and then total spark failure. As per others above Martin Jay is the answer there. Put a new high quality condenser in, so much **** out there now they are always suspect, put a new distibutor cap and leads on it as well and start with the basics good. These ignition systems are very very simple there should be no reason you should be having issues like that at that cost. I have my doubts about the coils being burned out, they do run very hot in those cars, uncomfortable to touch, I havent measured the temperature but its likely in the order of 70 C when running, might feel like thats on fire but its fine at that. What make is the current coil? I'm just converting my 3 to an electronic ignition using the 123ignition system, I should be starting the car on the new system tonight so I'll let you know how that goes in case you want to just consider that for a distributor replacement. Not cheap but basically all BOSCH parts and looks consistent with the original. Initial impressions are very positive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adrian Carter Posted April 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Hi guys, lots to think about there thank you. Will try and get it out in the light over weekend. I bought it last year from a local guy. He bought it from a longtime owner who rebuilt it. I think it has only done a few hundred miles in the last couple of years in total. The coil just has a ‘Beckerman’ sticker on the clamp with no other info anywhere. It did have an AccuSpark system on but the garage took it off to try and get back to basics when fault finding. To be fair to them they spent an awful lot of time on it and that’s the cost; we did come to a price reduction as the cost was more than that originally. It did include the cost of the rebuilt carbs. The only other thing they mentioned was that the battery is a beast, an Optima 845A 66Ah (C20) AGM battery and they didn’t know why it was so large. I am based in Worthing if anyone’s in the area or can recommend someone local. Cheers Adrian. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Hi Adrian, the picture shows the pipe connecting front to rear carbs rising above the front air filter. If this is the case then that could cause problems with airlocks etc. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Size of the battery wont make any odds and cant find any info on that coil, though the company seems to supply mostly coil packs for moderns, generic motor factor stuff. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Roger is correct - that fuel pipe link should run below the carbs. That 66Ah is not a big beast - a TR4 needs a large battery, and I have a Halford's 640CCA, which fills the space and is rated at 70Ah. Note: the CCA specifies the position of the terminals - I have converted to negative earth and have the battery the terminals at the rear (near the bulkhead), with positive near the master cylinders. Ian Conish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Search on eBay for a Bosch Blue Coil and any problems with the coil will be solved. S/H ones can usually be picked up for a reasonable price. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) This isn't pertinent to the fault and is just a comment, but If the battery is an AGM (absorbent glass mat) it is really the wrong type for your car. Neither an original dynamo nor a period ACR alternator can charge it properly - those are really intended for modern cars with complex charging arrangements. The battery will work OK but you will never have the full rated capacity available. [Sorry Ian but you are a bit off with the definition of CCA - it stands for cold cranking amperage which is defined as how much current a new, fully charged battery can deliver for 30 seconds at -18°C (0°F) while maintaining a terminal voltage of at least 7.2V ] Edited April 28, 2023 by RobH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 At this stage I’d be more concerned that they’ve rinsed you for 3k. For 3 grand you could most likely fit a new engine AND ancillaries. Are they really that dim that they can’t wire it directly from the battery ( ruling out ign circuit) and run it with another coil? Changing the distributor might be an option, though I’d borrow one first to try it rather than the expense of a reconditioned one. I had two coils go in close succession on my 4a, and ended up fitting a Lucas sports coil. So far 10 CR mileage and many more no problems. I did however stop and help a stranded TR4 owner in Italy on the 10CR and loaned him an original Lucas coil from a Morris Minor to get him going and all was well for the rest of the run. When they are bolted to the block they seem more troublesome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Hi Adrian, the Halfords HB072 or HBC072 work very well. BATTERY - made by Bosch. The Blue coil works well. Look for Beru Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 This is the 12 v Bosch Blue coil mentioned earlier https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/bosch-blue-sports-ignition-coil-a-a0-221-119-027/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 3 hours ago, RogerH said: Hi Adrian, the picture shows the pipe connecting front to rear carbs rising above the front air filter. If this is the case then that could cause problems with airlocks etc. Roger The petrol pumps power is good for 2 m level lift, it will blow any air out to the float chamber, my advice is - don’t worry this. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just not good practice. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 A long time ago I had a problem with my TR3A which would start from cold but never from warm/hot. I had to park on hills and ask other club members to give me a push start at local meetings. After many months I tried a new condenser as recommended on here. I was anxious to solve the problem , so I bought a special condenser made for racing mini. The regular ones available are made in China and do not use enough material inside.The racing one is made in England and has extra long fabric inside. It was too big to fit inside the distributor and is bolted to the engine using one of the coil fixings The cost at the time was nearly 10 x standard cost. It has now been starting very well at all temperatures. Good luck Richard and B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 hour ago, RogerH said: Just not good practice. Roger Caused by the circumstances (the 90 deg banjo), not nice and made a bit not inspired - but will work Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 I doubt this has anything to do with the condenser, since we are told the garage removed electronic ignition in an attempt to clear the fault - so it must have existed even before the standard points system with the condenser was installed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted April 29, 2023 Report Share Posted April 29, 2023 14 hours ago, Adrian Carter said: It makes me wonder how the distributor is twisted. The crankshaft pulley could be installed in the wrong position after all this work, possibly you have several faults on the car (now)? Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted April 29, 2023 Report Share Posted April 29, 2023 I'm guessing the coil is not secured to the engine, but temporarily resting on the tacho cable. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ijonsson Posted April 29, 2023 Report Share Posted April 29, 2023 After burning a couple of coils, I changed the modern plug leads back to metal core leads and haven't had any problems for some years now. Does this make any sense to you with better electrical knowledge? Or, was the reason to improvement just that I moved the coil away from the engine to the inner wing? /Inge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 29, 2023 Report Share Posted April 29, 2023 Hi Inge, neither of your changes should kill the coil. Looking at all the odd rebuild faults could it be that the inept garage has the coil connected to 12V irrespective of whether the Ignition is ON or not. Adrian - is the coil hot before you start the engine. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.