Rear hub disaster - no driving to Goodwood next weekend :-(

[nickw71]

Two years ago I was between garages so was forced to use a local large classic car specialist to do a couple of jobs. While it was in they called to say they’d found play in the OSR hub and recommended that the bearing was changed. When I went to collect the car they told me they’d done both sides for good measure! I was unamused but paid the money.

During pre-season checks a couple of weeks ago I was horrified to find the OSR wheel had half an inch of play. Like the wheel was about to fall off. That’s after two trips to Goodwood and down to Le Mans last year.

In 13 years of ownership I'd never gone near the rear hubs so didn’t realise what they entailed – I’m now well clued up thanks to this wonderful forum and the BB.

Now with the driveshafts removed I’ve discovered that the hubs are clean, reconditioned units. The car has only done less than 20k since restoration, all in my ownership. On the loose side (top driveshaft in the picture) the preload nuts have spun back probably because the locking tab looks butchered and wasn’t bent over properly. Evidently they tried to disassemble to hub and unsurprisingly quickly gave up. The other hub is absolutely untouched with the locking tabs and nuts unmarked.

So I was ripped off and I’m now left with the one U/S hub and a dilemma of what to do.

I have read all the threads about driveshaft / hub options and to be honest my head is spinning.

QUESTION - there is a very slight but discernible movement in the splines but how much play is regarded as acceptable?

The UJs feel nice and smooth but the car did have the horrid wind up clunk but I never worked out whether it was the splines or the diff. The diff does seem to have quite a bit of backlash.

If the driveshafts are good then I could just replace the hub like for like but finding one you trust is another matter. Only Rimmers offer a new build std spec hub and that is made in India. Recon hubs make me nervous for all the reasons previously explained on the forum.

If I think the splines are worn and causing the clunk then that pushes me down replacing the whole lot (expensive) with all the choices between UJs and CVs.

It’s taken the car off the road just as everything kick off for the season so I'm not a happy bunny. 

Your advice please gents.

Nick 

 

[stuart]

I’m not a fan of CV jointed shafts though I know lots are, I prefer the Cosworth hubs and uprated shafts from Racetorations, expensive but fit and forget https://www.racetorations.co.uk/product/fast-road-race-rear-hub-driveshaft-assembly-tr4a-6/

Stuart

[Waldi]

I have installed the CDD complete CV units, it also solved the clunk. I did not have much clearance in the splines and the unions were good, so an additional advantage in my case.

I would not order new original but remanufactured hubs, to much issues reported on here and does not eliminate the splines and unions.

Just my thoughts.

Waldi

[rcreweread]

Nick - first and foremost, it's sensible to avoid reconditioned hubs - there is plenty of evidence of what can go wrong with them and by the sound of it, you have been lucky not to lose a wheel and have a potential accident.

I did a cost comparison for myself a few years ago between replacing the standard set up with new components as original, and the cost of new CV jointed set ups and the cost was almost the same, hence a no brainer as far as I was concerned - if you compared uprated original style parts, then the cost was a lot more than the CV jointed option.

I have no experience of the Racetorations set up as advocated by Stuart but have no doubt they are very good  but at a price - many on here use the Classic Driving Developments ( CDD) CV set up which is relatively good value, and appears to be a well engineered kit. In fairness, some people have experienced issues ( not safety related) with the kits but as far as I am aware, they have been swiftly sorted out. 

They are not that far from you, so probably well worth a visit and look at the parts before you buy - you may be able to get a better deal direct from them.

Cheers Rich

Edited April 8, 2023 by rcreweread

[roy53]

3 hours ago, stuart said:

I’m not a fan of CV jointed shafts though I know lots are, I prefer the Cosworth hubs and uprated shafts from Racetorations, expensive but fit and forget https://www.racetorations.co.uk/product/fast-road-race-rear-hub-driveshaft-assembly-tr4a-6/

Stuart

I went for the Cosworth hubs but from Enterprisses. 

Roy

[DRD]

I thought that Moss did brand new hubs that were OK.

[Andy Moltu]

Fo not touch reconditioned hubs unless from a reputable supplier who can confirm a new stub axle is fitted.

[cp25616]

I wholeheartedly concur with Stuart above as I too am not a fan of CV shafts. I bought 2 new rear hubs from CDD as they are the best and I have NOS driveshafts to match. Nick its your choice but I would go new (Cosworth) hubs and uprated driveshafts but be prepared neither option will come cheap but then again nothing is expensive when compared to your life.

Alan G

[qkingston]

Or... I have just replaced my drive shafts with new uprated units from Proptech, and new replacement hubs from Bastuck, a little less expensive and decent quality. I would agree about reconditioned hubs, worrying evidence on their safety

David 

[nickw71]

9 hours ago, stuart said:

I’m not a fan of CV jointed shafts though I know lots are, I prefer the Cosworth hubs and uprated shafts from Racetorations, expensive but fit and forget https://www.racetorations.co.uk/product/fast-road-race-rear-hub-driveshaft-assembly-tr4a-6/

Stuart

Thank you Stuart. I've see the Cosworth/Quaife hubs and d/shafts recommended before. They certainly look very well engineered but top dollar.

I've sent you a PM. /Nick  

[Malbaby]

There is a guy here in Australia that markets CV shafts and hubs. Another big attraction for me was that he also sells replacement diff axle/flanges to match the driveshafts. So no need for adaptors between any aftermarket shafts and factory diff flanges.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Malbaby

[Tim D.]

I have CV shafts from CDD. They handle the extra grunt from my supercharged 6 well and the added benefit is a more supple rear end (ooo eerr!).  It is very noticable and really improved ride.  Guessing it is due to not have the splines. 
tim

[nickw71]

9 hours ago, Waldi said:

I have installed the CDD complete CV units, it also solved the clunk. I did not have much clearance in the splines and the unions were good, so an additional advantage in my case.

I would not order new original but remanufactured hubs, to much issues reported on here and does not eliminate the splines and unions.

Just my thoughts.

Waldi

Thanks Waldi, I appreciate your comments. 

So you had the clunk even though the splines were in good shape? 

You have been totally happy with the CDD CV units? 

From everything I have read I'm decided that uprated hubs are the only safe and reliable option. Just the UJ / CV joint choice to decide on. Just seems a waste to discard the current original driveshafts. 

Nick 

[Waldi]

Hi Nick,
I only installed the CV driveshafts last year, so I can’t tell how they behave after longer use.
As said, the old splines did not have much play (by feel), but apparently enough to give the clonk. That clonk has disappeared, which also reduces peak-loads (from shock) on the  differential, which is known to be vulnerable, even more after 50 years of hard work.

I kept my old units as “spare”, but will never install them.

A couple of points during installation if you decide to install the CV-assemblies:
0. Carefully read the installation instructions before start of work. Installation is very well possible for an experienced hobby-mechanic who feels comfortable working on classic cars but you have to follow the instructions. 
1. It is important to measure the maximum drop (lowest position of TA) and distance from diff. flange to TA flange, because the CV shafts are somewhat limited in travel.
2. If you have a modified rear suspension/damping (teleshocks), the travel can be longer, so double check these 2 dimensions.
3. Torque for the central nut is meant to be un-lubricated (dry). The fitting instructions did not mention this.
4. If the rebound rubbers are worn, this is the time to replace them.

Not all suppliers sell the same design/quality of CV shaft, and the difference cannot be easily spotted. A supplier in Germany is mentioned in a German forum (TR Freunde) for using lower quality components.

Waldi

 

[Casar66]

I tried NOS hubs, reconditioned ones and the hubs from Bastuck. One of the Bastucks last less than 1000 mls. The other one was better, like the NOS. But the customer service of Bastuck is a desaster. The reconditioned was good for 3000 mls. Now there is a cosworth/quaife type mounted. I should have done it right from the beginning. They are quite expensive comparing with the other. But the feeling to drive without a "sword of damocles" above you is worth the extra money. And you save also a lot of work because you never change hubs again.

Btw: even with driveshafts is possible to drive without the clonk. In my eyes you don't need cvv. I know plenty of cvv users with problems. 

[Steves_TR6]

I fitted the CDD cv shafts, hubs , and also the larger studs, to my 6 almost 10 years ago now.

i had a gaiter split but other than that they have been faultless.

as mentioned above the ride improvement is very noticeable, the rear suspension works under load unhindered by spline lock

it’s your car/choice but like everyone else i woild avoid reconditioned hubs.

steve

[Macleesh]

Another vote for CDD solution here. Sliding joints an UJs are always going to be a source of wear and anxiety. I decided I wanted to be driving the car, not spending hours faffing. Fit and forget for me.

[Casar66]

50.000 guick mls with uprated shafts. Never a clonk, never spine lock, never play. New joints only while changing the hubs but were never worn out.  But lot of grease. two times a year.

[nickw71]

19 hours ago, rcreweread said:

Nick - first and foremost, it's sensible to avoid reconditioned hubs - there is plenty of evidence of what can go wrong with them and by the sound of it, you have been lucky not to lose a wheel and have a potential accident.

I did a cost comparison for myself a few years ago between replacing the standard set up with new components as original, and the cost of new CV jointed set ups and the cost was almost the same, hence a no brainer as far as I was concerned - if you compared uprated original style parts, then the cost was a lot more than the CV jointed option.

I have no experience of the Racetorations set up as advocated by Stuart but have no doubt they are very good  but at a price - many on here use the Classic Driving Developments ( CDD) CV set up which is relatively good value, and appears to be a well engineered kit. In fairness, some people have experienced issues ( not safety related) with the kits but as far as I am aware, they have been swiftly sorted out. 

They are not that far from you, so probably well worth a visit and look at the parts before you buy - you may be able to get a better deal direct from them.

Cheers Rich

Hi Rich, I've just done the same thing and the CDD CV joints actually come out better value that than uprated hubs and UJ joints. There's not much in it if you pair the Racestorations/Quaife hubs with Proptech driveshafts which only makes the decision more difficult.

Everyone says leave the recon ones on the shelf and I reckon the Bastuk std spec hubs are the same as the Rimmer ones.

Regards 

Nick   

[nickw71]

6 hours ago, Waldi said:

Hi Nick,
I only installed the CV driveshafts last year, so I can’t tell how they behave after longer use.
As said, the old splines did not have much play (by feel), but apparently enough to give the clonk. That clonk has disappeared, which also reduces peak-loads (from shock) on the  differential, which is known to be vulnerable, even more after 50 years of hard work.

I kept my old units as “spare”, but will never install them.

A couple of points during installation if you decide to install the CV-assemblies:
0. Carefully read the installation instructions before start of work. Installation is very well possible for an experienced hobby-mechanic who feels comfortable working on classic cars but you have to follow the instructions. 
1. It is important to measure the maximum drop (lowest position of TA) and distance from diff. flange to TA flange, because the CV shafts are somewhat limited in travel.
2. If you have a modified rear suspension/damping (teleshocks), the travel can be longer, so double check these 2 dimensions.
3. Torque for the central nut is meant to be un-lubricated (dry). The fitting instructions did not mention this.
4. If the rebound rubbers are worn, this is the time to replace them.

Not all suppliers sell the same design/quality of CV shaft, and the difference cannot be easily spotted. A supplier in Germany is mentioned in a German forum (TR Freunde) for using lower quality components.

Waldi

 

Thanks again Waldi for sharing your experience with the CDD shafts. I'll will keep my original drive shafts as "spares" whichever route I take. Just can't face scrapping them. Just seems wrong. 

Nick 

 

[nickw71]

13 hours ago, qkingston said:

Or... I have just replaced my drive shafts with new uprated units from Proptech, and new replacement hubs from Bastuck, a little less expensive and decent quality. I would agree about reconditioned hubs, worrying evidence on their safety

David 

The Proptech shafts always get a good feedback on the forum and they are well priced. I'm sure the Bastuk hubs are the same as the ones that Rimmers are offering. 

[nickw71]

4 hours ago, Casar66 said:

I tried NOS hubs, reconditioned ones and the hubs from Bastuck. One of the Bastucks last less than 1000 mls. The other one was better, like the NOS. But the customer service of Bastuck is a desaster. The reconditioned was good for 3000 mls. Now there is a cosworth/quaife type mounted. I should have done it right from the beginning. They are quite expensive comparing with the other. But the feeling to drive without a "sword of damocles" above you is worth the extra money. And you save also a lot of work because you never change hubs again.

Btw: even with driveshafts is possible to drive without the clonk. In my eyes you don't need cvv. I know plenty of cvv users with problems. 

Thanks for the feedback Casar66. I think the choice is coming down to CDD CVs or Quaife with uprated UJ driveshafts. I might have to toss a coin! Either way it's an investment in the car. 

Nick 

[Waldi]

I wish someone in the EU would sell the Nissan differential conversion, Goodparts in the US have set the standard, but shipping and taxes makes it very expensive for us in the EU.

That would make the rear end of the drive train virtually bullet proof.

Waldi

[harrytr5]

Quite a few of us are now running CDD  CV driveshafts and hubs in North London Group. So different drivers and different TR,s all good reports.

Regards Harry

[TRTOM2498PI]

I have Richard Good Parts (USA) CV drive shafts & the associated rear hubs, which have been fitted since 2009.  This kit has covered around 90k miles now, and have had a very hard life.  The hubs are still beautifully quiet, with zero movement in them.  These hubs are designed to absorb 400bhp, accordingly to RG.  You will not break them. 

 

I have also used the Cosworth derived rear hubs, and uprated driveshafts.  These are used in Motorsport for over 20 years, in powerful 240 + BHP 6 cylinder cars, without any issues.

 

I currently have a TR6 fitted with Richard Good rear hubs, and RCT uprated drive shafts (with UJs), which is on a 350BHP Cosworth powered TR6.

 

Cheers.