RogerH Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 Hi Peter, you say denying patients access to D3 to enable a good quality RCT is immoral. However the Govt's around the world are denying access to ALL their populations by simply ignoring the practical stats. Scientific studies are long drawn out exercises and as you say may deny access here and there for a very long time. Thus as D3 is quite 'harmless' and may be a cheap moderator to the virus then surely any Govt would be mad not to try it on a national scale. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, RogerH said: Hi Peter, you say denying patients access to D3 to enable a good quality RCT is immoral. However the Govt's around the world are denying access to ALL their populations by simply ignoring the practical stats. Scientific studies are long drawn out exercises and as you say may deny access here and there for a very long time. Thus as D3 is quite 'harmless' and may be a cheap moderator to the virus then surely any Govt would be mad not to try it on a national scale. Roger Roger, D3 has been ignored long before coronavirus by all but a minority of clinicians. In UK, USA etc decision making was handed to expert cttees who knew about D3 for bone. So dose was (and is) based upon bone. Science has revealed D3 afffects a host of other conditions (see vitamindwiki) that small studies show pts responding to higher D3 doses. But these RCTs were deemed too small to be convincing. And big RCTs cost millions and there's no profit in D3 to pay for them. And so the tragedy plays out. Yes I think the gov is mad not to advise more than bone-health doses. They do advise 400 ( or 800 for BAME and those lacking summer sun) but its not enough, but does cover them from claims.Has anyone on here seen that advcie advertised like hand-washing, distancing etc ? I haven't. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 This afternoon's work: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3410/rr-4 Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) Another D plus https://www.mcknights.com/news/clinical-news/higher-vitamin-d-levels-may-lower-dementia-risk-experts-say/ Alan Edited September 17, 2020 by barkerwilliams Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Forey Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 Last evening BBC East Midlands Today showed a short report on the potential benefits of D3 supplements for the BAME community to reduce the severity of COVID-19. The story came from the Royal Derby Hospital where 4 members of staff died as a result of C-19. There were all from the BAME community. As a result of that, RDH are now encouraging all their BAME staff to take vitamin D3 supplements and making them available for free. They did not state the dose but showed an image of a 25mcg bottle. Another small step for mankind. Mick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spit_2.5PI Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, Mick Forey said: Last evening BBC East Midlands Today showed a short report on the potential benefits of D3 Hi Mick. Was that early evening or late evening? I just skimmed through and couldn't find it. Cheers, Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony_C Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Mick Forey said: Last evening BBC East Midlands Today showed a short report on the potential benefits of D3 supplements for the BAME community to reduce the severity of COVID-19. The story came from the Royal Derby Hospital where 4 members of staff died as a result of C-19. There were all from the BAME community. As a result of that, RDH are now encouraging all their BAME staff to take vitamin D3 supplements and making them available for free. They did not state the dose but showed an image of a 25mcg bottle. Another small step for mankind. Mick Thanks Mick, useful to know, I'pass it on to David Grimes. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 14 hours ago, barkerwilliams said: Another D plus https://www.mcknights.com/news/clinical-news/higher-vitamin-d-levels-may-lower-dementia-risk-experts-say/ Alan Thanks Alan, That finding might not apply to UK as milk is fortified in USA and maybe other foods. UK diet IIRC supplies around 150IU pd, miserably low. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 Just now, Peter Cobbold said: Thanks Alan, That finding might not apply to UK as milk is fortified in USA and maybe other foods. UK diet IIRC supplies around 150IU pd, miserably low. Since starting on D3 I found my memory for names is much sharper nowadays. Fingers crossed it will help. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 https://www.technologynetworks.com/cell-science/news/sars-cov-2-uses-heparan-sulfate-to-get-inside-cells-340482 Heparan Sulphate pathway into cells Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 24 minutes ago, barkerwilliams said: https://www.technologynetworks.com/cell-science/news/sars-cov-2-uses-heparan-sulfate-to-get-inside-cells-340482 Heparan Sulphate pathway into cells Alan Alan, Thanks, a new angle. Heparan sulphate acts as a trigger for inflammetion, by activating Toll-like receptors.https://www.ingentaconnect.com/contentone/ben/mrmc/2017/00000017/00000006/art00005?crawler=true&mimetype=application/pdf HS is destroyed by heparanase an enzyme whose expression is inhibited by D3: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/path.4639 So in D3 deficiency heparanase will be higher and hence HS lower with a consequent reduction in TLR activation and less inflammation. At first sight this would suggest that boosting D3 makes inflammation worse ! However D3 will act to raise HS levels and as the authors comment: I surmise that raising D3 will supress heparanase, raise HS and compete-off the virus form membrane-bound ACE2. But I could be wrong. However D3 definitely reduces expression of ACE2 so , and that is mandatory for virus entry, I reckon 500m years of D3 evolution is still likely to be right. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Forey Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Spit_2.5PI said: Hi Mick. Was that early evening or late evening? I just skimmed through and couldn't find it. It was the late evening 10.00 news. Mick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 Fauci takes 6000, supposedly: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 Cordoba "noted".............then relegated to the round file of SACN. https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2020-09-14/89623 Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, Peter Cobbold said: Cordoba "noted".............then relegated to the round file of SACN. https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2020-09-14/89623 Peter Hi Peter, I have a bucket of sand going spare for these people to stick their heads in. However I would suggest that there is no overwhelming evidence that a bucket of sand would be of any use. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 You should be careful making suggestions like that Roger, you may be Ostrichsized Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 ooH Matron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 Roger, Yes, they are dunes with a 'c'. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 One US politician is on the money https://grothman.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=1777 With Fauci taking D3 ( supposedly 6000 IU pd) it cannot be long before the story breaks across the US meedja and in then globally. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said: One US politician is on the money https://grothman.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=1777 With Fauci taking D3 ( supposedly 6000 IU pd) it cannot be long before the story breaks across the US meedja and in then globally. Peter Haven't heard a peep about D3 in the public press here, Peter. It's a long way from breaking into public consciousness in the USA, I'd say. With all the BS running wild in the run up to our election, there's probably no chance for Facui's supplement program to make it through the din. Plus with all the misinformation about other magical treatments (read hydroxychloroquine and certain science-denying people in government and press), it's going to be hard to get Americans to believe in anything right now. That said, I'm at 6000 IU/day D3, too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, Don H. said: Haven't heard a peep about D3 in the public press here, Peter. It's a long way from breaking into public consciousness in the USA, I'd say. With all the BS running wild in the run up to our election, there's probably no chance for Facui's supplement program to make it through the din. Plus with all the misinformation about other magical treatments (read hydroxychloroquine and certain science-denying people in government and press), it's going to be hard to get Americans to believe in anything right now. That said, I'm at 6000 IU/day D3, too. Hi Don, I'm now on 4000. Tried 10,000 for most of year but got hints of calciurea ( I was taking whey supplements too and that added 1 gram extra Ca to diet). Looks like virus is mutating its spike protein fast, and before any vaccines targeting the spike are in use: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.22.20199125v1 Am increasingly confident D3 will come to the rescue, problem is when ? and will stocks last? Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, Don H. said: Haven't heard a peep about D3 in the public press here, Peter. It's a long way from breaking into public consciousness in the USA, I'd say. With all the BS running wild in the run up to our election, there's probably no chance for Facui's supplement program to make it through the din. Plus with all the misinformation about other magical treatments (read hydroxychloroquine and certain science-denying people in government and press), it's going to be hard to get Americans to believe in anything right now. That said, I'm at 6000 IU/day D3, too. As a family we have taken vitamin D3 and Omega fish oil capsules daily for a number of years. It’s difficult to quantify it’s effectiveness for the average Joe, unless you conduct scientific tests. Its a bit like asking someone how many times he hasn’t had an accident due to wearing a hi-viz jacket. I do however believe the vitamin is effective, as long as we treat the rest of our health seriously, as it is the robustness of our immune system as a whole, and not just a vitamin which might protect us from any viral attacks. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 22 minutes ago, boxofbits said: As a family we have taken vitamin D3 and Omega fish oil capsules daily for a number of years. It’s difficult to quantify it’s effectiveness for the average Joe, unless you conduct scientific tests. Its a bit like asking someone how many times he hasn’t had an accident due to wearing a hi-viz jacket. I do however believe the vitamin is effective, as long as we treat the rest of our health seriously, as it is the robustness of our immune system as a whole, and not just a vitamin which might protect us from any viral attacks. Kevin My regular Dr (an internal medicine specialist) recommended D3 supplements to me years ago due to a family history of osteoporosis and my test results. The stuff around coronavirus is very nice to know, but isn't why I started on D3. I think the link between D3 and calcium uptake is well proven. One of my former colleagues, a research fellow in what might be the leading company making soy protein isolates, was quite convinced after his extensive study of the literature that Omega fish oils had a beneficial effect on inflammation. He was unambiguous in his conclusions that they were worth taking. 'Course, that was 10-15 years ago now and we probably know a lot more and I'm not up to date on the latest work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, boxofbits said: As a family we have taken vitamin D3 and Omega fish oil capsules daily for a number of years. It’s difficult to quantify it’s effectiveness for the average Joe, unless you conduct scientific tests. Its a bit like asking someone how many times he hasn’t had an accident due to wearing a hi-viz jacket. I do however believe the vitamin is effective, as long as we treat the rest of our health seriously, as it is the robustness of our immune system as a whole, and not just a vitamin which might protect us from any viral attacks. Kevin Kevin, D3 is a hormone that regulates several hundred genes, roughly 10% of all, its not "just a vitamin". Over 500 million years of evolution it has been involved in fine tuning our immune systems: innate, adaptive and surveillance. And most nations have populations that are seriously deficient. This thread has been about covid, but D3 is important, as you point out, for so many other aspects of our health long-term- see vitamindwiki. However its oldest role was in immunity, actions on bone, blood pressure, diabetes, cancers etc evolved later. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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