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14 hours ago, stillp said:

I was reading something online a few days ago written by someone who claimed to be a specialist in osteomalacia, who had a colleague who was showing symptoms similar to ME. The author blamed this on increased calcium uptake due to the patient taking a 5 000 iu D3 supplement daily. Can't find the link now dammit.

Pete

Here is an example of a patient with MS ( not ME) taking 5000 IUpd and calcium supplements:https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/1107961

Our patient demonstrated hypercalcemia from the cumulative effect of 5500 IU of cholecalciferol and 2020 mg of elemental calcium daily. These are not unusually high doses of either supplement, and it is unclear why our patient experienced toxic effects from a dose of daily cholecalciferol that has been tolerated by many other patients.

Peter

 

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D3 maximum dosing. - A personal choice.

In May this year my right hip started to complain so I went off to get an Xray and to me it looked bad so I found a surgeon and asked for a hip replacement.

A couple of quick consultations later and at the beginning of August I was booked in for THR 21st August. For many years I have taken Vit d3 supplementation recent years usually 4,000 per day along with Zinc & Magnesium.

Once I heard about a date for surgery I upped my D3 to 10,000 per day for the two weeks prior to the op, then as the weather was good I almost became a professional sunbather and went to theatre a rather nice shade of chestnut. When I entered hospital I cannot have had much blood left just D3 floating about!

Since returning from the op I am continuing with 10,000 (+ extra Zn & Mg) for the next two weeks before resuming the 4,000.

Could I please report that have no effects attributable to the presumably elevated D3 levels at all (unless the contraindications are an aching hip), but then nor did I catch anything save from a slight post-op fever for a couple of hours which I understand is common and not related to infection.

Then today I read of UK’s 1 in 8 Coronavirus cases caught in hospital and I am so pleased I made an effort before entering theatre to give my immune system the best fighting chance possible. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53895891

Ok, I know statistically I was safe anyway but when you have a couple of weeks grace to take some personal action for me it was a no brainer.

Alan

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51 minutes ago, barkerwilliams said:

D3 maximum dosing. - A personal choice.

In May this year my right hip started to complain so I went off to get an Xray and to me it looked bad so I found a surgeon and asked for a hip replacement.

A couple of quick consultations later and at the beginning of August I was booked in for THR 21st August. For many years I have taken Vit d3 supplementation recent years usually 4,000 per day along with Zinc & Magnesium.

Once I heard about a date for surgery I upped my D3 to 10,000 per day for the two weeks prior to the op, then as the weather was good I almost became a professional sunbather and went to theatre a rather nice shade of chestnut. When I entered hospital I cannot have had much blood left just D3 floating about!

Since returning from the op I am continuing with 10,000 (+ extra Zn & Mg) for the next two weeks before resuming the 4,000.

Could I please report that have no effects attributable to the presumably elevated D3 levels at all (unless the contraindications are an aching hip), but then nor did I catch anything save from a slight post-op fever for a couple of hours which I understand is common and not related to infection.

Then today I read of UK’s 1 in 8 Coronavirus cases caught in hospital and I am so pleased I made an effort before entering theatre to give my immune system the best fighting chance possible. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53895891

Ok, I know statistically I was safe anyway but when you have a couple of weeks grace to take some personal action for me it was a no brainer.

Alan

Alan, That's the dose of D3 I take, plus a multivit for vitK etc , and extra K2MK4MK7 to drive the extra calcium uptake from gut into bone and teeth and away from soft tissues. The dose is aimed at my PD rather than viruses. 10,000 is within  the amount whole body sunlight can make per day so in that sense is physiological. However its worth knowing the symptoms of hypercalcaemia:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypercalcemia/symptoms-causes/syc-20355523

Peter

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2 hours ago, little jim said:

Pete will feel a bit like saying "I told you so" when this article gets a bit of publicity.

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

However for a cure/not getting it, I'm sweating on the vaccine.

Thanks LJ, hadn't seen that. More grist to the D3 mill. There is a body of thought that D3 insufficiency underlies hypertension, due to insufficient suppression of RAS, so their supercomputer may have picked up on that, and joined up the dots.

Which vaccine? Different vaccines targeted to different epitopes will drive the evolution of different types of SARS-CoV-2. So we end up with several different viruses, which may no longer be sensitive to our nation's particular vaccine. 

I haven't had a winter bug since taking D3 at 2000IU pd or more. Neither has Prof Hewison, an expert on D3 actions on immunity:https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-science/2020/07/22/coronavirus-research-study-link-between-vitamin-d-deficiency-covid-19/5445070002/  That makes me suspect that the need for an annual flu vaccine reflects widespread D3 deficiency as only a minority of population take  2000IU pd. 

Possibly we will find we need both.

Peter

 

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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FYI, more on the Cordoba trial:

http://www.drdavidgrimes.com/2020/09/covid-19-and-vitamin-d-randomised.html

Even the Daily Fail has picked it up:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8718601/Vitamin-D-supplements-Covid-19-patients-intensive-care.html

We cannot buy the form of D3 used in the trial ( 25(OH)D3). However a Canadian general physician-academic treats  his pts at the first signs of 'flu with a "D3 hammer" that is likely to raise serum 25(OH) similarly fast:  https://www.cfp.ca/content/61/6/507.long

I plan to cut open 25 2000IU capsules and let the oil soak into a slice of toast, more palatable than swallowing 25 gel capsules.

Peter

 

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The Daily Mail writes:

“”In a comparable group not given the medication, 50% went into intensive care“”

This seems a very high rate compared to what we have in our hospitals. 

Waldi

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2 minutes ago, Waldi said:

The Daily Mail writes:

“”In a comparable group not given the medication, 50% went into intensive care“”

This seems a very high rate compared to what we have in our hospitals. 

Waldi

Waldi, Are any foodstuffs fortified with D3 in Netherlands? Finland does, and has highest mean serum 25(OH)D3 in europe. Spain does not and has low serum levels like UK. Also the study started April 28 ,before summer sunlight raises population mean serum 25(OH)D and that boost plausible enhances our resistance to COVID. So a comparison needs to be made on April ICU admissions.

The result was clear in Cordoba, only a 1 in 1000 chance of being by chance. I doubt it will be ethical to repeat the trial by withholding D3 from the controls.

Peter

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Very good to see such clear results from the first RCT.

41 minutes ago, Peter Cobbold said:

I plan to cut open 25 2000IU capsules and let the oil soak into a slice of toast, more palatable than swallowing 25 gel capsules.

When do you plan to do that Peter? I thought your 25(OH)D was satisfactory already. But if you want to do this then you only need say 3x 20,000IU capsules which isn't too arduous.

For example from this lot ... and probably others.

HA__0020_801228_VitaminD3-20000iu-30-tab

Cheers, Richard

 

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5 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said:

Waldi, Are any foodstuffs fortified with D3 in Netherlands? Finland does, and has highest mean serum 25(OH)D3 in europe. Spain does not and has low serum levels like UK. Also the study started April 28 ,before summer sunlight raises population mean serum 25(OH)D and that boost plausible enhances our resistance to COVID. So a comparison needs to be made on April ICU admissions.

The result was clear in Cordoba, only a 1 in 1000 chance of being by chance. I doubt it will be ethical to repeat the trial by withholding D3 from the controls.

Peter

Hi Peter,
I do not know if food is enriched with D3, some margarine maybe?

FWIW, 
on April 28 the number of people that went to the IC was 13.3
The number of hospitalised people on the same day was 76.
So a ratio little under 20%, but it is difficult to compare these numbers I think. Our numbers were not steady at that time (we were vastly reducing numbers then, luckily).

Just to be clear: I take my highdaily doses of D3, and so do many others around me, and this was triggered by your effort, so thank you!

But I do not understand why it is not prescribed widely, or why not more effort is made to find the benefits (or not).

Best regards,

Waldi

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5 hours ago, Spit_2.5PI said:

Very good to see such clear results from the first RCT.

When do you plan to do that Peter? I thought your 25(OH)D was satisfactory already. But if you want to do this then you only need say 3x 20,000IU capsules which isn't too arduous.

For example from this lot ... and probably others.

HA__0020_801228_VitaminD3-20000iu-30-tab

Cheers, Richard

 

Richard,

I should be OK but if it fails and I get a dry peristnet covid cough I intend to use the hammer. Caiucasians fall into 3 groups of response of blood cellls to 25(OH)D: low medium and high. I might well be in the low group. Peter

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36 minutes ago, Waldi said:

Hi Peter,
I do not know if food is enriched with D3, some margarine maybe?

FWIW, 
on April 28 the number of people that went to the IC was 13.3
The number of hospitalised people on the same day was 76.
So a ratio little under 20%, but it is difficult to compare these numbers I think. Our numbers were not steady at that time (we were vastly reducing numbers then, luckily).

Just to be clear: I take my highdaily doses of D3, and so do many others around me, and this was triggered by your effort, so thank you!

But I do not understand why it is not prescribed widely, or why not more effort is made to find the benefits (or not).

Best regards,

Waldi

Waldi, I have devoted most of this year to D3 along with a dozen or so in a UK campaign group, with no impact that we can see. I keep both my MP and welsh Senedd member informed, to no obvious effect. The official advisory group in UK admits only big RCTs and ignore a enormous body of science and small RCTs such as Cordoba, despite that result having only a 1 in 1000 chance of being by chance. No-one likes to be shown to be wrong,and they cling on to their narrow un-refereed position tenaciously. Another possibility is  the big pharma  are manipulating utility of D3 rather  as tobacco giants manipulated evidence of smoking risk. I am beginning to give some credence to this theory as D3 is implicated in a reducing a wide range of diseases that are currently drugged.  http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v14n22.shtml   So l very much doubt UK authorities will change to advising more D3. The Wellcome Trust/ Gates "COVID accelarator" fund expressly prohibits applicationd for hormoen studies including D3.  Another country less behoven to big pharma or vaccines will be first to act. It might be Spain, they surely cannot fial to ignore Cordoba.............or will they?  USA highly unlikely to go for D3, Fauci is a vaccinist and D3 threatens his power and influence. Eventually D3 for COVID will come good globally, and for a host of other conditions too, its a pity the death-toll has to be so high. Recognition of the importance of D3 for health and longevity may well be the only positive outcome of the pandemic, which is why I plug away at the keyboard daily.

Peter

 

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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Thanks Peter,
And do know you are supported by many of us for your continued effort!
I tried to find statistics from Cordoba area, but could only find country-wide statistics for Spain.
Then compared these with NL statistics: similar development in recovery rate (from confirmed (tested) cases, but at lower relative numbers in NL; Spain has, after Belgium, the highest number of fatalities/million of population, but the numbers of reported fatalities in the 2nd wave is just a fraction now of the 1st wave in both countries.

An important factor is the increased testing capacity so more confirmed cases are reported, also of non- vulnerable people that were not tested before. In NL for example more than 50% of confirmed cases currently are 20-40Y old! While at onset only hospitalised people with Covid symptoms were tested.

But does this fully explain the much lower fatality numbers (persons/day in both countries)? I think not. It would be interesting to see what else changed.
-Improved therapy? (yes)
-Vulnerable people more careful? 
-More people taking D3?
-......?

Waldi

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7 hours ago, Waldi said:

More people taking D3?
-......?

The case/fatality ratio , by age groups, based upon hospital admissions, has dropped over summer. Most probable reason is incidental solar generation of D3, although improved ICU skills might also contribute. Solar-generated D3 has a half -life of about two to three months ( double that of supplemental) so , now that UVB is too low to generate D3, serum levels will be in gradual decline. Its why 'flu and colds are mostly in winter. I expect a resurgence in COVID CFR later in the year. At present its the calm before the storm.

Peter

 

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Hi Peter,

We can only hope you are wrong on the 2nd surge.

Vulnerable people not shaking hands, giving hugs, kisses and avoiding busy places is another obvious factor.

I did read that 2 people on the Oxford extended trial suffered a rare condition, MS and another in the “bone nerve”. Let’s hope this is just coincidence.

Waldi

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....it is very poorly designed as a RCT. 
 

The researchers own conclusion

“Our pilot study demonstrated that administration of a high dose of Calcifediol or 25-hydroxyvitamin D, a main metabolite of vitamin D endocrine system, significantly reduced the need for ICU treatment of patients requiring hospitalization due to proven COVID-19. Calcifediol seems to be able to reduce severity of the disease, but larger trials with groups properly matched will be required to show a definitive answer.”

I added the bold

Iain

 

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5 minutes ago, iain said:

....it is very poorly designed as a RCT. 
 

The researchers own conclusion

“Our pilot study demonstrated that administration of a high dose of Calcifediol or 25-hydroxyvitamin D, a main metabolite of vitamin D endocrine system, significantly reduced the need for ICU treatment of patients requiring hospitalization due to proven COVID-19. Calcifediol seems to be able to reduce severity of the disease, but larger trials with groups properly matched will be required to show a definitive answer.”

I added the bold

Iain

 

I think you are pushing at an open door here Iain, as you demonstrate and the researchers own conclusion above highlights  

but larger trials with groups properly matched will be required to show a definitive answer.”

So why is NICE or the Nhs or any of the other British health authorities NOT beating down the door to finally and definitively test D3 application of medication and nail this lie....if lie it be ?

It's not as if they have a quiver full of ready to use other Coronavirus beating "arrows" to fire !  the world is testing inoculations fit to burst, all of which will cost a pretty penny (the publics "pennies") whenever they can be hastened into testing and production,  as against a very cost effective D3 course of medication costing pennies in comparison. All it needs are RCT trials on D3 being arranged and instigated immediately and if they can be concentrated so as to shorten the testing periods so much the better...what's hard to understand ? or instigate ? 

Sometimes it's wise to ask "why do they protest so much " ?

Mick Richards   

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1 hour ago, iain said:

....it is very poorly designed as a RCT. 
 

The researchers own conclusion

“Our pilot study demonstrated that administration of a high dose of Calcifediol or 25-hydroxyvitamin D, a main metabolite of vitamin D endocrine system, significantly reduced the need for ICU treatment of patients requiring hospitalization due to proven COVID-19. Calcifediol seems to be able to reduce severity of the disease, but larger trials with groups properly matched will be required to show a definitive answer.”

I added the bold

Iain

 

Iain,  I would not bet against a result with a 1 in 1000 chance of being by chance. Especially not when we take into acccount the large body of evidence pointing to D3 involevment in COVID. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3669379

As for the bold:  with such a clear result form Cordiba I suspect it will be deemed unethical to withold 25(OH) from the control group, and watch them die.

Science is bigger and better than the narrow persective of the RCT as I have pointed out before: https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2618/rapid-responses

And while authorities dither peopla are dying, economies are being trashed and prospects for youth are becoming ever grimmer. All because of an inability to follow the science. What is there to lose? - apart from the reputation of D3-advisory committees who fail to read beyond their RCTs. The one benefit of COVID is these unrefereed committees will be hoist by thir own petard. Not before time too,

Peter

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I hope this works and sorry in advance for the adverts.

Much more about D3 but not necessarily linked to Cov19, it shows that it is in their minds though.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/vitamin-d-levels-may-predict-future-health-risks-death-in-older-men

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1 hour ago, iain said:

Hi Peter

I am only quoting the paper. I am not offering any comment other than the RCT is a poorly designed as evidenced by those who conducted it.. 

Iain

Iain,  I  read that as " give us the money to do more of the same" I doubt very much they'd expect a different result. Peter

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I read that as critical self comment of a study that has serious scientific limitations which they know they had to acknowledge to get a preliminary publication. Very common.
Sample size, age sex distribution, cormordities etc etc

Iain

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40 minutes ago, iain said:

I read that as critical self comment of a study that has serious scientific limitations which they know they had to acknowledge to get a preliminary publication. Very common.
Sample size, age sex distribution, cormordities etc etc

Iain.

Highly unlikely to be explicable by any of the above. The two groups were  age-matched, as were other baseline parameters They achieved a 25-fold reduction in  severity. That's dramatic. But predicted by science, and Schwalfenberg with his hammer, five years ago. Where do you think the Cordoba clinicians got the idea in the first place !

The big problem with such a clear-cut outcome is it is now unethical to run control groups denied the therapy. In many ways thay are ina situation resembling smoking studies where it was unethical to promote smoking so the tobacco companies hid behind the lack of RCTs for decades,despite the science being glaringly obvious. That will not happen with D3 as its utility in COVID will soon become apparent to all with Spain leading the way out of the pandemic.

What I would like to see from Cordoba2 are measurements of serum 25(OH)D twice daily before and during treatment. But denying pts the therapy would be wrong.

Peter

 

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