That was a year that was..

[Bfg]

Cheers Nigel ..i'd not seen that before.. strong stuff for those Black Country lads  ..maybe it's why they talk all funny like 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

That motor looks quite good inside.   The brushes and commutator look quite good.   Smell the field coils and armature wiring, if it smells burnt suspect their integrity.  The wiper gear is stamped as a  130 degree wipe and I think 120 was specified for TR4/4A/250/5.   That will mean the wipers may bash the screen rubber.  Do not drench the bushes that support the armature with oil.  If over oiled it may drip onto the commutator.

Check the free running of the motor while tightening the two brush gear cover securing screws with power supplied via an old battery charger and suitable fuse.   If the motor slows as you tighten or gets noisy or the current draw rises you will need to slacken/tighten alternately and tap the motor case with a rubber mallet to get everything aligned and running freely.
 

Pete, Will you be using the red rubberised insulation wire for the park wire as original or just replacing with regular cable?   If you are hell bent on original type wire I may be able to help as I think I have a yard or two of the red stuff from when my dad rebuilt wiper motors for a living.   

PM me if required and I will go searching.

Peter W

[Bfg]

Thank you Peter - That was a very kind offer (the red rubber insulated wire) but I'd done it with plastic insulation - which on Katie  is barely seen anyway, once the motor was reinstalled.  Thankfully, no smell from the field coils or the armature. 

Also thanks for your advice on checking the alignment of the field winding. I headed this and did check it and it worked fine ..albeit seemingly slow. Since replacing the crimped connector on the power wire and the earth - it is now working fine.   

On 12/21/2022 at 6:29 PM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Do not drench the bushes that support the armature with oil.  If over oiled it may drip onto the commutator.

I smeared the bush arms with Vaseline, as they are an electrical contact. The commutator end of the brushes were of course left dry.  The armature bearings and worm drive were coated with moly-lithum grease.  

Before I reassembled the wiper motor - I wanted to clean out the back corner of the bulkhead shelf, which is usually inaccessible because of the wiper motor being in the way. It all went well, but then I noted some over-spray bloom ..further forward, and so added a little more paint over that area to smooth it out .. unfortunately (or whatever word(s) you might imagine I exclaimed !) that last patch ended up looking like this . . .

 

^ Not much I could do about this crinkling, in the cold and damp, so I've left it for another day.  I want to flatten and redo the rest of these shelves anyway which show hand-painting brush marks. 

^ moving onwards and hopefully forwards this time .. the component parts were cleaned and tarted up ready for reassembly.

The armature - worm drive end, was reassembled into the gearbox and the field-winding carefully positioned over the armature (sans brushes). 

 

  

The brush arms were then reassembled, and the fibreboard fitted (behind the new red wire) which helps prevent the arms coming apart while the tensioning spring is fitted (blue arrow) ..or should that spring break at any time.  It's fiddly holding the two insulation T-eyes in place and then hooking the spring into each hole, but it went easily enough thanks to a decent pair of needle nose pliers inherited from my father.  Of course one needs to be careful that the spring's wire end goes right through each hole rather than just hooking on.

  

^ alternative views. The first hopefully clarifies my point about the E-shaped fibreboard holding the end of the brush arms onto their contacts (which I'd smeared with Vaseline), and the second showing the brushes sitting against the cleaned commutator.   Note ; the red wire turns quite tightly to clear the end cap ..yet to be fitted but which projects further down than the terminal connectors. The wire's tail-end leads through a hole in the motor's other end, which is cast as part of the gearbox casing.   Don't forget to refit the earth spade-connector, which sits under one of the end-cap's long screws (just seen in the piccies below)

^ the end of the drive-cable was refitted, under the crankshaft's little-end pin, before the (now pretty) gearbox top cover could be refitted. The red wire was cut to length and its tail-end soldered to the (park mechanism's) connector on the cap.  As recommended by Peter W, I checked the wiper motor operated and the gearbox functioned correctly before refitting it. 

Refitting the drive-cable back into its outer sleeve (undisturbed still on the car) was sticky-finger messy from the copious amounts of moly-lithium grease I wiped into the drive-cable's spiral winding.

 

^ all back together again.  Shame about the paint on this bulkhead, but all in all it is looking prettier and now works.

As I said above ; it seemed slow when checked I'd reassembled it straight, but subsequent to a new connector and a new earth (at the switch) it's now OK and seemingly good to go.  Checking and re-lubricating the wiper motor was on my job list, so another item ticked off 

I bid you a warm and comfortable evening,

Pete

 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Bfg

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Splendid.

[MilesA]

Pete

Yet another masterclass! Thank you for sharing again so fully. 
 

I bid you a warm and comfortable Christmas and a New Year of many miles under your wheels. 
 

Miles

[Bfg]

Cheers Miles, a simple enough task ..if one is wary of the brush arms, its spring and insulators don't go ping !  Well worth doing though, as the wiper motor mechanism needs to be as powerful as can be, and reliable - in the very worst of conditions.

 

On 12/21/2022 at 6:29 PM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

from when my dad rebuilt wiper motors for a living

Peter, from your insider perspective, I wonder if you might advise on the orientation / adjustment of the gearbox top cap, which of course sets / adjusts the drive-cable's crankshaft position when parked. 

The workshop manual says "The domed cover is adjustable to give the correct park position of the wiper blades"  ..but surely that is done by the positioning the wiper arm's spline on the wheel box.  When installed on the RHD TR44/4A and presumably the TR5, the wiper's gearbox is mostly tucked tightly under the front wing - so access to undo its cover's screws, to adjust / rotate the cap, is not a reality. For practical purposes the cap needs to be positioned and the cover tightened before the wiper motor is fitted to the car. 

I've preset set Katie's  as illustrated below, which I feel ought to be correct, but I'd value your opinion . . .

^ to clarify what I have - I've Photoshop edited the above piccie (..from when I first lifted the cover off, and before I straightened the kinked cable) so that the two rivets, seen inside the cap (which correspond to the lay of the red wire soldered onto the outside) are in alignment with the drive-cable.  So positioned ; the insulated / no-power patch (dark segment of the brass colour) within the cap sits to one side, and the crankshaft parks at the (bottom) end of its throw. 

Then, when the motor is first activated - the torque required (movement of the cable turning the wiper arm wheels) is least. This makes sense but perhaps it not important and I'm over-thinking it, or am missing out on the fine adjustment of setting the parked wipers tight against the rubber.? 

On Katie  I have the driver's wiper parked against low down the rubber, but the cranked arm of the LHS wiper could do with being a few degrees lower.  

Thanks for your consideration,  Pete

 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Bfg

[RogerH]

Hi Peter,

deep memory here - if you look on the dome there should be a small indentation/raised mark that points down the length of the body.

This is your starting point for parking.

Or not as the case may be.

 

Roger

[Bfg]

2 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi Peter,

deep memory here - if you look on the dome there should be a small indentation/raised mark that points down the length of the body.

This is your starting point for parking.

Or not as the case may be.

Roger

Thanks Roger  ..your memory serves you well   . . .

 

^ I didn't see it in the cover's previous state - but once cleaned up I recall noting the slightly raised spot you talk of.  That corresponds to the two rivets being aligned to the cable-drive, and although I've reassembled mine with this dot at the far rather than cable end,  ie. 180 degrees out from what you suggest - either way around ought to offer least resistance to the motor starting to turn.   

I appreciate your point that out.

Cheers, Pete

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Bfg

[rcreweread]

1 hour ago, Bfg said:

Thanks Roger  ..your memory serves you well   . . .

 

^ I didn't see it in the cover's previous state - but once cleaned up I recall noting the slightly raised spot you talk of.  That corresponds to the two rivets being aligned to the cable-drive, and although I've reassembled mine with this dot at the far rather than cable end,  ie. 180 degrees out from what you suggest - either way around ought to offer least resistance to the motor starting to turn.   

I appreciate your point that out.

Cheers, Pete

 

 

 

Pete- as far as I'm aware, the correct cog for a single speed TR4 motor or a 2 speed 4A/5 motor is 120 degrees, whereas yours is 130 degrees. I recall Roger, I think it was, experimenting with a 115 degree cog to alter the sweep angle but I can't remember which way it went but I think it was to reduce the sweep angle as the blades were running off the screen - if that was the case, then I would expect a 130 degree cog to mean your blades would be flapping off the screen or if it was the other way round, then you would have a poor sweep which would leave parts of your screen unswept - whichever way, I would expect you to struggle to make the 130 degree cog work effectively  - 120 degree cogs do come up from time but they are not plentiful - I haven't got any spare ones and indeed I am actually looking out for one at the moment which isn't a king's ransom - however, I do have a complete 2  speed motor with a correct 120 degree cog, but it's unfortunately not cheap - call me if of interest

Cheers Rich 

[Bfg]

Thanks Rich,

No problem with the 130 degree gearbox which gives 10-degrees more angle in sweep than standard. Very probably after fifty years of toing n' froing there's 10-degree worth of wear in the wheel boxes anyway - so we're back to standard.  

Pete

  

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Bfg

[RogerH]

Hi Rich/Pete,

When I installed the TR6 14W motor in the 4A I used a 90' gear wheel. - so not relevant to the above.

As stated the correct wheel for the 4A/DR3 is 120'

 

Roger

[Bfg]

Question for anybody ~ re. Electrical fault ? ~ indicator warning light continued to flash when the switch is off ..and the indicators themselves are off.  

I disconnected the feed (G/N) wire to the indicators (at the bullet connector from the switch) while I was playing around with the wiper motor, and now that I've reconnected it - the indicator warning light fault is no longer there.  Can anybody suggest where the fault might have been ?    Aside from the standard indicator wiring  Katie  is fitted with Bob's Hazard warning lights (..as illustrated below) and the lamps are each fitted with LED bulbs.  The wiring under the dash is pretty secure, and presently the indicators and the hazard warning lights each work fine.

Thanks in anticipation, Pete

 

 

[RobH]

Well Pete, for the pilot to flash it obviously means the indicator relay was running. The only way it can do that is for there to be a  current drain to earth on the L terminal. Usually it is the current drawn by the lamps that does this.  If the indicator switch is off  there should be no link to the lamps so there must have been something else taking current and the suspicion must lie with the wiring to the hazards switch. Perhaps there is a whisker of wire somewhere that was earthing out but has now been disturbed ?

[Lebro]

Pete.

If you are using the LED compatible flasher unit from Classiccarleds, then it is quite normal to get 1 extra flash on the dash bulb after the indicators are off.

It used to do more than 1, but I checked out the circuit, & advised a modifcation, which is now present in all the current ones.

If the extra flashing was prolonged, then that suggests a wiring fault somewhere.

Bob

[Bfg]

Thanks Rob, the bullet connection to the switch goes to the indicator relay, so I'll follow the line of investigation you suggest. 

Having just started the car the fault is back there.  

[Bfg]

26 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Pete.

If you are using the LED compatible flasher unit from Classiccarleds, then it is quite normal to get 1 extra flash on the dash bulb after the indicators are off.

It used to do more than 1, but I checked out the circuit, & advised a modifcation, which is now present in all the current ones.

If the extra flashing was prolonged, then that suggests a wiring fault somewhere.

Bob

Thank Bob, I am using the flasher and switch you recommended, and was just getting one extra flash after the indicators were turn off ..before I started the engine, and now the warning light continues to flash, not a solid flash but a sort of buzzy flash at tick-over. It becomes a solid flash as revs are increase. 

Cheers.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Bfg

[Bfg]

There's not a lot of wiring to go wrong under there. The bullet are all soldered and this connector is just a few inches from the relay (screwed onto the side of the TR4's face vent), and the wire from the indicator switch goes straight into that connector. The hazard switch is not much further away (it is fitted into the bracket which was originally used for bonnet release cable).  

With the engine running a faster than tickover,  ie. full 12v power, the indicator warning light now does flash an extra one to one-and a half after the switch and indicators are off.

I was just about to pull steering column indicator switch out and see if I can see a fault inside that, but the fault has gone away again even when the engine is rev'd.  That's a nuisance.. as I now cannot hope to find it.    

Pete

 

[Lebro]

If it's only 1 to 1½ extras, then that is pretty normal for that unit. if more e.g. 2-3 flashes then it is an early one without the mod, & get Duncan to replace it.

If it flashes continuosley then there is definatly something wrong. Try indicating, then pull the connector off of the "L" contact on the flasher, & observe if flashing continues.

[Bfg]

Faults back again, so now working by torchlight I pulled the indicator switch and played around twisting the connectors on it etc, to no avail.   

39 minutes ago, Lebro said:

If it's only 1 to 1½ extras, then that is pretty normal for that unit. if more e.g. 2-3 flashes then it is an early one without the mod, & get Duncan to replace it.

If it flashes continuously then there is definitely something wrong. Try indicating, then pull the connector off of the "L" contact on the flasher, & observe if flashing continues.

I'll take it as being normal then, as there are not 2-3 extra flashes.   As before when the indicators or hazards are switched on - the warning light behaves correctly.

Pulling the 'L' connnector off the flasher stops it and the indicators working.

Just in case, I added an external earth wire to the relay's bracket, and it made no difference. The fault remains. 

Could it be a fault within the flasher unit that responds to engine vibration ?

It's now 5-o'clock so I guess I'd better pack up for this evening. Starting the car every ten minutes won't earn me any neighbourly friends. 

I was very careful when I soldered the connections onto the tiny hazard warning switch, but I'll pull it out and see if I can find a fault in those connections. It'll be a job for tomorrow.

Thanks Bob and Rob - I appreciate your thoughts.

Happy Christmas Eve,

Pete

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Bfg

[Bfg]

Yesterday I'd pulled out the steering column switches and decided the wires were all too tightly squeezing back into the aluminium shroud. The wires' insulation is hardened and in places cracked so after straightening out the suspected-to-be-the-guilty-party (.. the indicator wires into the back of the switch) and a good brushing clean with carb cleaner & wiping dry with clean tissue - I coated them in liquid electrical tape.

^ drying that insulating / plastic coating with the warmth of a candle on Christmas day.

Regarding the too tight shroud (for the number and routing of wires)... Today I pulled the steering wheel and eased the steering column outer sleeve so that I could turn it for access to easing out the wire's through-routing. . .

  

^ When going through the wiring earlier in the year, I'd already eased a bit of the cowling away (first photo, red arrow) but I decided today that it was still far too tight, and unnecessarily so, as the switches are hidden under a plastic cowling anyway.  2nd photo shows how much further I've now taken it.  This then gives ample room for the overdrive switch' wires (..which happens to be the switch I'm now using for the headlamps main / dip beam) as well as the wires for the indicators.   I similarly opened up the orifice underneath this cowl where the wire come out of the cowl before heading under the dashboard.

Pulling all the wires out was a faff..  but all-in-all I think useful - as I don't like vehicle wiring to be unnecessarily pinched together, especially through places where there's no room for anti-chafe grommets. 

Job done and all put together again, wires reconnected and checked to work correctly etc..

 

^ Test drive on a pleasantly dry & mild Boxing Day afternoon suggests that the issue I had, with the indicator-warning-light continuing to flash when turned off - has, for the time being at least, gone away.

The likely fault was as Rob suggested, was that the indicator relay was inadvertently being earthed ..other than when switched.  And that would have been the wire from the relay to the switch - perhaps only-just (hence it's flickering) shorting out against the pressure die-cast switch body or perhaps even the aluminium steering column shroud. It certainly wasn't obvious to see but then possibly the electrical fault was via tracking across dirt particles.? 

Either way, it now works as it should (one flash extra after the indicator switch is turned off), as do the windscreen wipers, all the lights and horn, etc.  Success.  

Bidding you a good evening and a pleasant holiday.

Pete

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Bfg

[stuart]

Your not using the cable tray then Pete? Item 12 here https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/steering/steering-tr4-4a-1961-67.html

Stuart.

[RogerH]

4 minutes ago, stuart said:

Your not using the cable tray then Pete? Item 12 here https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/steering/steering-tr4-4a-1961-67.html

Stuart.

A good while ago I attacked my wires that are between the column  and tray. 

I replaced them with the smallest thin walled cable that would safely do the job.

I also removed the black sleeve that covered some of the cables.

The lighting cables that powered the headlight relays were replaced with something significantly  thinner.

The tray fits more comfortably now.

 

Roger

[Chilliman]

6 hours ago, RogerH said:

A good while ago I attacked my wires that are between the column  and tray. 

I replaced them with the smallest thin walled cable that would safely do the job.

I also removed the black sleeve that covered some of the cables.

The lighting cables that powered the headlight relays were replaced with something significantly  thinner.

The tray fits more comfortably now.

 

Roger

Indeed, if you have reason to change any of the loom and are comfortable with using the modern thin wall instead of retaining originality it is definitely the way to go. My entire loom is modern thin wall - smaller cross section (total - not core) & greater current capacity when compared like for like.

[Bfg]

On 12/28/2022 at 11:26 AM, stuart said:

Your not using the cable tray then Pete? Item 12 here https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/steering/steering-tr4-4a-1961-67.html

Stuart.

Correct, I am not using it.   a valuable weight saving

The wires are tied up under the dash to the steering-column-to-bulkhead-tie-rod with 1" wide Velcro cloth strap.

Pete 

[Bfg]

Tuesday  my old college buddy, Chris, came up from Winchester to visit me for a couple of days.  Of course he was late getting up here ..blaming heavy traffic around the M25 and up the A12 - which we all know is a preposterous excuse.  Anyway we didn't do much, save going out for supper, to the Sorrel Horse, and then back home to watch Appoloosa  ..along with enjoying a decent bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon. 

But he wasn't going to get away without doing some jobs, so on Wednesday morning, correct to forecast of rain all day, I enlisted his help with one of my old bikes, from the storage container so that I might ride it home. . .

^ let me introduce to you my dear old Sunbeam S8'Nudge ' (1953) and formerly my daily rider.  But due to circumstances, she was last used at the beginning of December 2021.  The tyres were mostly deflated, the petrol stale and the battery flat ..but after a few priming kicks she started for me.  Chris, seen above, is a motorcyclist too - but without 'the knack', which comes with familiarity of the type, he struggled.   

I rode the bike back the five or so miles back home with Chris following up in my Chrysler.  Man .. did I enjoy that ride ..despite the light drizzle, it was fun.  The plan is to use her again as my 'daily ride' ..mostly for just popping out around town.  

Mature cheddar with onions and black pepper on wholegrain toast thereafter followed, and then off to the marina - because Chris likes to see what progress I have, or haven't made, in recommissioning the boat.  

^ looking distinctly boat-project-neglected in the dull wet weather, Chris was kind enough to appreciate the fresh anti-fouling.  On board we conversed over what I might best do with her dull teak bulkheads.  He's suggesting a sheet covering of shower-thickness Formica as an easy-to-wipe-clean surface,  but I suspect that would be whole lot of work (templating and careful cutting and then edge trimming) as well as expensive.  So I'm still in favour of just slapping a coat of paint on them.  We'll see..

I've next to prepare Barbara-B  for a survey ..for sake of in-the-water insurance.  But as I've made so many modifications from standard - I fear that may not be so easy, unless I can find an inspector with a sound understanding of engineering materials.  Hey ho, I'm sure we'll muddle through.

In the meantime . . .

^ I thought it prudent to totally remove the small solid-fuel (smokeless-coal) burner I'd designed and made ..simply to avoid a lengthy conversation about it &/or its installation's safety standards - which I've exceeded but are primarily for inland-waterway boats (as I cannot find any specific regulations regarding such a stove on a sailing catamaran).

Another concern was the boat's old cooker, which doesn't have thermal couples to turn off the gas ..should the flame blow out.  The cooker is perfectly serviceable, but donkey's years old, and after a visit for advice from Simon in Fox's Chandlery about retrofitting gas-cut-off valves.  I suspect I'll have to bite the bullet and replace it.

Moving on, to a coffee shop, and then home for a curry supper and film watching. The latter Chris chose was the classic Stanley Kubrick's - 2001 A Space Odyssey  ..which in turn was followed by a late-night discussion over brandy, regarding whether Hal (the computer) was sentient or else a programmed "intelligence" ?, whether the mistake was actually a mistake or deliberate ?, what were its motives for murder ?, and the difference between instinctive nature and learned programming or sociology.?   Why do we go there at that time of night ! ?

 

Yesterday, on Thursday afternoon, after an English breakfast and Chris heading off, back down south, I took Katie  out in the, again correctly forecast, fabulous mild and sunny weather.  We again drove across to Framlingham castle, not least because they were open and had a coffee shop.  Katie didn't mind about either, but I did !

 

^ It was a good drive, and the first countryside-outing in the car since fitting her new cv-jointed half-shafts.  After being diverted.. TomTom found us some nice little lanes to wind   wade our way through !

^ there's always a king's welcome at Framlingham.  I'd bet he's a stone faced poker player  

 

^ There was a darned cool breeze up on those battlements. Thankfully I don't wear a kilt.  Still the countryside view is nice.

 

^ And as always I came away cleverer than when I arrived. 

^ One of the un-mentioned realities of castles is that their very high walls, without windows, make for very long shadows within. This photo taken at 3:05pm ..on a bright and sunny day, and as you can see - it barely illustrates what it must have been like to live within those thick cold walls - throughout the long winter months. 

^ driving home before 5pm and it was really too dark for my camera to record much more than an abstract image.

Thankfully Katie's indicator warning light is now behaving itself, and Katie 's H4 headlamps are good and bright, as indeed now are all the LED side lights and indicators.

The last Thursday of each month is (one of) the TR Register's East Saxon's group meetings, which was usually held at The Alma, Copford, near Colchester, but last night we tried another nearby pub/restaurant - The Cricketers, Spring Lane, Fordham Heath, Colchester CO3 9TG.   Although we had just three TR's ..all TR4/4A's including Katie - the turn out of members was a good number.  Things are new and so perhaps many of us were guilty of not circulating as much as we might, I think we all had a pleasant evening.  I treated myself to a spiral of Cumberland sausage on a bed of mash potato, with which I specifically ordered fried onion with the gravy.. and it was deliciously wholesome, and pretty good pub value at under £13. 

Rich C-R very kindly found and passed onto me from fellow club member Leda - a TR4/ 4A/5 boot luggage rack ..which I'd been wanting for Katie,  specifically to stow my removable half-section of Surrey roof on.  I designed and made it to fit inside the car, on the shelf behind the seats, or else within the boot - but as & when I go away for the weekend or longer - then I'll want those more convenient places for luggage.  Aside from being the only Christmas present i got, it was by far the best !  Thanks Rixh, and a very BIG THANK YOU to Leda. It's just what I wanted.

My next club meeting is with the TSSC Suffolk group, which meet on the first Tuesday of each month at the Sorrel horse, Barham, IP6 0PG, on the 3rd January. 

Hopefully we will have nice weather for that too..  Be glad to see you there.

Pete

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Bfg