RogerH Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Hi Paul, where does one stop comparing old and new. If the results are similar it could be that they are both iffy. Today I was determined to get the cam in place for buttoning up tomorrow. Sadly the plans have changed. Firstly I had to make a dummy push rod in order to sort the cam timing, This is a 1" Ali rod turned out at one end and jammed in an follower. This will give a stable base for the DTI to read against. I then had to rig up the timing disc so that it did not turn out of sync with the crank when being turned. This is now sorted. Next thing - pop the sprocket onto the end of the cam just to make sure it fits - no it doesn't. aaaarrrrgggghhhhhhh The spigot for the sprocket is 0.818" dia, whereas the sprocket hole is 0.810" dia. Took it back to the shop and after a chat with the lad he checked all his stock and found that they are all oversize. Not a major problem for me as I can open the sprocket hole on my lathe - I now have a non-standard sprocket.!! Thankfully all the stock at the shop will be going back to Kent Cams. Such a basic piece of machining and its wrong. Opening the hole on the lathe became an exercise on itself. The three jaw chuck wouldn't hold it. The four jaw chuck would but need a jig to help centralise it. This took longer than planned but finished it. So tomorrow I can start putting things together. Regarding the musical engine - It started immediately after the rebuild two years ago. The engine hadn't had time to get hot. So I'm working on the theory that there was a fault with the cam. As I now have a good quality cam and followers (that are free in their bores) I am confident that everything will work as it should Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Well done Roger. Good job you have a lathe and the skills. What would mere mortals like me do ?? Things just dont ever seem to be straightforward when dealing with new parts and our old cars. It must add considerable cost to customers who have this work done professionally. Fingers crossed for you roger ???????? Edited January 9, 2018 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Hi Hamish, I was surprised to find a bad dimension of an expensive item that is machined. Hand fabricated items can have a large tolerance and cheap junk can have anything. I have found that machined parts for engines are always good - perhaps I've been lucky. Anyway can't wait for tomorrow. The sun will be shining, it will be warm and the garage gods will be with me. I think that was the script. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Hi Roger, if you're stuck, I should have a couple of decent used Stanpart cams tucked away . . . . . . shout if you need one, yours for the asking ! Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Hi Alec, I have a couple of old standard cams that are in visually good nick. I think this Kent cam has given its last problem. Thanks for the offer - I SHALL NOT BE BEATEN. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Don't forget the Cam lube and to follow the Cam running instructions.....:-) you know it makes sense! Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Hi Iain, I actually have a bottle of KentCam lube. I have taken a dated photo just in case there is any quibbling. 2500rpm for 20 minutes sounds quite frightening. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Are you sure the camshaft bearings are OK? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Hi Mal, a long time ago I read somewhere that the camshaft bearings do not wear out. Due to the spread of the load and the lubrication. However every time I do an engine build I replace them. Visually they look good. The new cam feels nice when in place. So I am happy with the bearings. Everything points at a dicky cam shaft. I have yet to assess the hardness but am sure the cam is the issue. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel C Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 were you getting much s**te collecting on the sump plug (assuming its magnetic) over the two years of runnung? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Hi Nigel, haven't got a mag plug. Have not noticed any excess metallic particles. It may well break off in very small particles. If suspended in the oil the filter should catch. This morning I fitted the cam and timed it. The instructions came over as very simple. Set to TDC, Rotate crank to installation angle (108 degree's = 90 + 18) Set #1 valve to max height and attach the chain. I shall read the instructions again when I finish my coffee Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Isnt that #1 inlet valve? #1 valve is exhaust. I was caught out by that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 aaarrrrrgggghhhhhh - I'm now rushing out to the garage to see what cock-up I've done. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Isnt that #1 inlet valve? #1 valve is exhaust. I was caught out by that. Hi Pete, many thanks, you saved me a lot of work. I had set up on #1 valve NOT '1 inlet valve. The instruction do state #1 inlet but it did not register. Anyway all I had to do was remove the timing chain cover, set up the protractor and DTI and it was sorted very quickly. Two years ago I spent ages sorting the valve timing. This time the instructions were very simple using an installation angle etc. It needed a dummy push rod (on #1 Inlet apparently). I made this from a 1" diameter Ali rod turned down to fit into an old follower. When in position it gave a very stable platform for the DTI to measure against. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) Hi Folks, the engine is now all buttoned up. Tomorrow I'll change the oil, add some more antifreeze, spin the engine to get oil pressure and then press the GO button. Everything is nicely oiled/lubed so once started I need to go into warp drive -- 2000rpm for 20minutes. I have everything crossed that a) it starts, b ) the knocking sounds (the music) has gone c) it all goes as it should. Roger Edited January 11, 2018 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Hi Folks, the engine is now all buttoned up. Tomorrow I'll change the oil, add some more antifreeze, spin the engine to get oil pressure and then press the GO button. Everything is nicely oiled/lubed so once started I need to go into warp drive -- 2000rpm for 20minutes. I have everything crossed that a) it starts, b ) the knocking sounds (the music) has gone c) it all goes as it should. Roger Fingers crossed here Roger. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Hi Folks, the engine is now all buttoned up. Tomorrow I'll change the oil, add some more antifreeze, spin the engine to get oil pressure and then press the GO button. Everything is nicely oiled/lubed so once started I need to go into warp drive -- 2000rpm for 20minutes. I have everything crossed that a) it starts, b ) the knocking sounds (the music) has gone c) it all goes as it should. Roger Be sure the radiator louvres are open.... Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Thanks Kev. Hi Pete, they are automatic. I'm sure I will not need the manual override - will I. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Roger, ......If you go spinning the engine you'll take off some of the cam lube, .. just go for it, with fingers crossed, .... have a google on flat faced cam followers, oils without much ZDDP and the problems you've already had with failed cams etc, don't forget that the cam turns at half engine speed, so the 2.5thou RPM is only 1250 at the cam, and don't fix at just one engine speed. Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Hi Rob, thanks for that. It will take some cranking as the carbs will be empty. If the spinning will remove the oil/cam lube then surely the first few seconds of normal firing will do just the same. I think I would feel happier spinning it up to get the oil pressure. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Hi Rob, thanks for that. It will take some cranking as the carbs will be empty. If the spinning will remove the oil/cam lube then surely the first few seconds of normal firing will do just the same. I think I would feel happier spinning it up to get the oil pressure. Roger +1 on the oil pressure with plugs out. - good way to check for leaks before pumping 1 gallon of oil on the garage floor.... Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Hello All, Excuse me if I’m being a bit thick, but I don’t understand what this “Cam lube” is all about. If it is something that you put on the cam when you assemble it, surely, as Roger says, it will disappear very quickly as soon as the engine oil flows past it. I guess it is more to do with the lobes than the cam bearings, but even then the flow from the head and the splash from the sump will soon wash it away. Can someone please explain? Charlie D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 This explains it pretty well Charlie: http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/cam-assembly-lube Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Hi Charlie, the Kent CamLube is like treacle and although the first few revs will remove a good deal of it there will remain a decent layer. It takes some time for the splash oil to get to all the parts. In the Moss instructions it states that you must use it or the warranty is invalidated - so I took a dated pic of it with the cam Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Hi Rob, thanks for that. It will take some cranking as the carbs will be empty. If the spinning will remove the oil/cam lube then surely the first few seconds of normal firing will do just the same. I think I would feel happier spinning it up to get the oil pressure. Roger Prime the carbs with the petrol pump external priming lever, thats what its for.I do it as a matter of course (and habit) on all 4 cylinder cars. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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