McMuttley Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Well the birthday didn't last long ! The lower manifold stud closest the bulkhead had been reluctant to come out. Been squirting it with penetrating oil for some time (trying to keep it away from the head gasket !) Also tried gentle tapping (a little) heat and ice to encourage it to move without luck. So went out and bought a stud extractor, only for it to tear off only half the stud! Tried to get the remainder to come out with mole grip, but as you can see, it is just chewing up the metal. Any suggestions ? I didn't really want to take the head off as for every part that arrives, 5 end up coming off ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Weld a nut to the end. Get it good and hot! The nut can be any size or thread that you can get onto the stub, even a bit loose. Then allow to cool, slowly, and work on the nut with a spanner/socket. Turn it - try to turn it - both ways, until you can get a small movement, and the work it outwards, reversing as for a tap every few half turns. If the threads start to squeal, STOP, it's about to break again. Apply more heat, penetrating oil etc, ad come back later to work on it again. You're lucky to have a stub of stud to work on! JOhn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) It's partly the thermal shock produced by welding that loosens these. A MIG will work just as well Edited February 21, 2016 by AlanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hi McMuttley ~ Here are two of the stud extractors that I have. The one on the left is very good as it tightens on the stud as you unscrew it. I think I got it from Frost's. Hope this helps? Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Well, at least you've found the single best purpose for mole grip / Vise grip locking pliers. Best tool ever made for rounding off heads and buggering threads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Come on now Don, Austin is a Yorkshireman - and one who's just taken a giant leap up the evolutionary scale . . . . Be charitable. Adding a mole grip to the hammer is a 100% improvement when you have a one tool kit . . . . . Sorry Austin, couldn't resist it . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 No, I'm not the guy in the video (that beard ornament!) but that's my method, Sir! Jhn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hi Austin, don;t let the bu99ers put you off your task. The weldy nut is best approach - if you have welding kit. If you can;t weld a nut on then you are limited to the usual stud extractors. TRY more heat. Don't bother with cold (you can't get it cold enough). Roger PS - I could send you a stud with a nut already welded on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted February 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 the stud extractor had already removed the threaded part of the bolt before i tried the 'mole strippers' the angle isnt great for drilling a straight hole for an easy out :-( i might see if the garage in the next road have mobile gas (they can weld a captive nut on my exhaust bracket whilst they are at it) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 It's partly the thermal shock produced by welding that loosens these. A MIG will work just as well ...Or the electrical induction heating method from Draper https://youtu.be/gFh8Pci5gpc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldtuckunder Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 In my experience welding a nut on is the best way and then follow John's instructions carefully the last thing you want is to snap the stud off again level with the head or just inside, cause then you are into drilling a hole and using an easyout and when that snaps (because they do) you are into head off and off to a real engineer who will cuss you for being so stupid. If it was me and getting a nut welded on was difficult, i would follow John's approach for a day i.e applying heat with a blow lamp, the dribble some plusgas on the hot stud (don't do it with the blow torch lit!) and repeat a dozen or so times. Then file a small flat on top and bottom of stud and then get your mole grips (sometimes this is just the job for them) and clamp them them on, and then release them and nip them up a bit, and then clamp them on and release them, if you can release them with their own little lever "then you don't have them tight enough!" then when you think you can't possibly get them any tighter have a go at moving the stud, I would suggest in first before trying out, and then follow John's advice about wiggling backwards and forwards. NB. When you come to refit the studs remember to put a bit of coppereaze on the threads to save either yourself or the next owner having the same problem. Goodluck Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Some years ago when I fitted a replacement lead free cylinder head to my 3A one of the rocker cover bolts sheared off flush with the head. I didn't attempt to try and remove the broken stud but removed the head and took it to my local engineering company who had the proper tools to easily remove the stud without damage. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldtuckunder Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 ...Or the electrical induction heating method from Draper Hey neat! I want me one of those! The Draper one seems to be around £500 whilst there are others like the one at www.boltbusterinc.com for around £300 (in the US) But don't think the budget quite covers something like that for the just in cases! Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 It's partly the thermal shock produced by welding that loosens these. A MIG will work just as well I had to do something similar with the body mounting bolts on my 4A. I used a large old bolt, ground the end flat, and stick welded it onto the body bolt. I wound them out while still hot. TIG welding does seem popular in the USA. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 That one at the back also broke off on a fellow member's low port head last year, we were lucky that on trying a different stud extractor we managed to unscrew it, but it was a close thing. Agree with the welding of a nut idea. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) Austin, If the welding a nut on with a MIG doesn't work and snaps the stud off you will have to remove the head to get the remains out. I have just dealt with two by very carefully drilling out in stages to a dia about 1mm less than the root of the thread at which point the remains of the thread started to turn and I could remove them with an easy out. You need to be sure that you are drilling down the exact centre of the stud and keep it straight so it's not a job for your hand held Black & Decker. Rgds Ian Ps after welding on the nut allow it to cool slightly and spray it with plus gas or similar. (The quenching will draw the lubricant down into the thread). Edited February 21, 2016 by Ian Vincent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 A few good clouts on the end of the stud might help things along. Plus Gas is great at freeing stuck threads but it often needs a long time to achieve full penetration; I'm talking about a few days here not a couple of hours. A plasticene or blue tac reservoir around the stud will help. A hole down the centre of the stud will allow Plus Gas to penetrate from both ends. I like to make up a drill guide on the lathe from a piece of round bar which fits snugly over the stud and has a smaller through hole to keep the drill central. You can feel when the drill breaks through. Certainly welding a nut on will give you a firm grip on the stud and provide a thermal shock but anything done to help free it up first will reduce the risk of shearing the stud which will usually occur at or just below the face of the head. Keep worrying it and it will come out. It once took me a week to get a stuck seat post out of a bike frame Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR5tar Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I'm not sure if this is a sensible suggestion or not Austin (or even if you have enough access to do it), but I'm sure those in the know will soon tell us if it's not a good idea. In a similar situation (although not with a manifold stud), I've used a Dremel with a diamond cutting wheel to cut a groove, then used a flat head screwdriver socket on a long handled socket wrench to get enough leverage to gently budge the seized bolt. I used some Weasel's Pee to help things along. No doubt welding a nut on the stud or using one of those induction heating tools is a far better option, but then many of us do not have access to such tools. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Using a Dremel (or the Lidl equivalent) is a good way to grind the top of a stud that has broken off level so that you can start to drill in the exact centre. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stevecross Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 + 1 for welded nut approach. Just remember if you are using a new nut to lightly grind the surface & run a drill down the nut thread to remove the zinc coating for a better weld. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 if you drop the plated nut in Jenolite, or similar phosphoric product, the zinc will fizz off a a few minutes. Welding zinc is a fume hazard. But you won't die from just one nut. You are quite likely to break the stud off at the surface. Don't give up at this point. Weld the nut again. This time the heat will be nearer the thread. Confident guys will cut the stud close to the surface before welding the first time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted February 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 A bath + = Cheers guys, No more questions, just answers. (Ps - will the plus gas have dissolved my head gasket/sealant) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Dayum -- that's great, Austin! Well done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Good job. They always surrender if you don't lose heart and give up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Mission accomplished!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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