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Andrew Smith

Michelin XAS - Tubes?

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Conflicting info from tyre suppliers about the need to fit inner tubes with Michelin XAS - what's the experiences of those that have XAS fitted (Edit - or have used): theorists need not reply.

 

Cheers

Andrew

Edited by Andrew Smith

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Check direct with the manufacturer, not the supplier. I did this when choosing tyres for Lynda's TR4A with wire wheels and got responses from those I emailed.

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Very easy answer, if "tubeless" is printed on the tyre

than it is not made for fitting tubes.

 

The problem is the inner surface that needs special preparation or control

not to rub on the tubes. That would be an additional process in building the tyre,

costs money and from that is no longer done by the manufacturers.

 

So it may not work or may be okay, especially when mounted with a lot of powder.

They may differ in the set of four, some may be okay, some not.

Similar to not tested brake pads from China, they may work ot may not....

 

The manufacturers do not allow that due to warranty questions:

http://www.morganpark.de/fileadmin/_temp_/Bestaetigung_PIRELLI_-_Schlauchmontage_in_PKW-Reifen_mit_Tubeless-Kennzeichnung_NICHT_zulaessig.pdf

 

The way to go is to check the inner area of tyre if its smooth and use the tyres with tubes if okay.

but if something fails there will be no insurance because a product is used in a not allowed manner.

Similar problem like with the steels wheels being H1 and need tubes, too.

 

So from that alloy wheels and tubeless wire wheels become attractive to avoid all those questions.

 

Tyres are something special like steering or the rear stub axle because the results from failure are very bad.

Edited by TriumphV8

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Hi Andrew,I have XAS,s fitted to my car without tubes,no suggestion of them even being used. Perhaps your supplier is thinking of wire wheels.

 

By the way they transformed the handling from the cinturatos that were on it before and are original 165s

Edited by Cew

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Hello Andrew

 

I have xas fitted on mine. The tyres state tubed tyre on the side meaning that they need them. Also follow this link...

 

http://www.michelinclassic.com/en/Classic-Tyre-range

 

... to go direct to michelins web site. You can also download their classic tyre catalogue from there. It clearly states that xas should have inner tubes.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

edit...

 

Having re-read and given some thought, I think Michelin are saying that the tyre could be used tubed rather than should be used. I think it depends on the wheel that it is used on (H1 or H2). There was a thread here recently that stated that the steel wheels are H1 :ph34r: . However to really cause confusion, the Brown Bible refers to tyres being tubed and tubeless.

 

In summary then, I'm none the wiser - sorry Andrew :wacko::unsure:

Edited by aardvark

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Apologies, need to put brain in for a service, I have XZXs fitted,but they are very good.

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Most of the above is correct, but currently,

Michelin only supply Tubed type 165 x 15 XAS.

So they need tubes irrespective of what wheels are fitted.

 

On top of that if we are talking your 3A, with ORIGINAL wheels, then they need tubes irrespective of what tyres are fitted.

 

I know that many folk will be running, tubeless on these original well based wheels but it is wrong.

 

Personally, not theory, I've Run 165 X 15 Xas TUBED TYPE, plus Michelin Airstop tubes, for 20 odd years, on my TR4, ask any tyre man that knows, its the best you can do!

 

 

John.

Edited by john

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Hi Andrew,

 

historically Michelin have produced XAS in both tubed and tubeless versions - hence the confusion that often arises.

 

For current production see the Michelin catalogue as noted previously.

 

All TT Michelins require tubes, end of. Some TL Michelins (not all) may utilise the specified tube for the particular tyre.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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The lads at TRE have just organised the fitting of XAS tyres to my 4 and these are tubed!

 

The wheels are original magnesium ARE silverstones.

 

Cheers

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Thanks folks,

 

The tyres are for Saffy - the current Dunlop SP4s have been on there since 1992 (only done 13,500 miles) and passed successive MOTs without any problems - they have not hardened, no cracks or other visible signs of deterioration and still have about 6mm tread left. BUT, I can feel the tyres moving about under the car, particularly at the rear. Checked suspension (replaced rear lever arms and vertical links), bearings, all bushes and all is good, so can only be the tyres.

 

Have emailed Michelin and in the meantime will speak to my local fitters to see if they will receive and fit customer supplied tyres. Hopefully order placed tomorrow.

 

Blackcircles offer the best deal on XAS - Longstone do the best tubes (Michelin).

 

Cheers

Andrew

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Thought I could help, but mine are XZX tubeless on wires.

Behaviour changed markedly after I got the rear toe in to zero.

Using Stuart's pressure recommendations.

Edited by littlejim

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Andrew - you say your 1992 tyres have not hardened, but then go on to say that you "can feel the tyres moving about under the car, particularly at the rear".

Surely, that is caused by hardening of the 'rubber' in the tyres, and is the reason that I changed part-worn tyres after some 7 years. My car was being deflected by white lines on the road and just didn't feel right. With a new set of Hankooks, it was transformed.

Ian Cornish

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I fail to understand anybody using tyres that are more than (say) 8 years old, worn or not. It is a fact of life that that tyre ´rubber' hardens with age and thus loses its grip.

Surely there are some professionals on this forum who could give us chapter and verse on the subject!

 

james

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Andrew - you say your 1992 tyres have not hardened, but then go on to say that you "can feel the tyres moving about under the car, particularly at the rear".

Surely, that is caused by hardening of the 'rubber' in the tyres, and is the reason that I changed part-worn tyres after some 7 years. My car was being deflected by white lines on the road and just didn't feel right. With a new set of Hankooks, it was transformed.

Ian Cornish

 

Ian,

 

Correct, the rubber hasn't hardened, but I believe the sidewalls have weakened.

 

 

I fail to understand anybody using tyres that are more than (say) 8 years old, worn or not. It is a fact of life that that tyre ´rubber' hardens with age and thus loses its grip.

Surely there are some professionals on this forum who could give us chapter and verse on the subject!

 

james

 

 

James.

 

There is no loss of grip.

 

As I said, these tyres were fitted in 1992 and that's why I'm changing them.

 

Cheers

Andrew

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Good articles Alec, thanks for posting them.

 

Graeme

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I've had the experience of an old tyre delaminating at speed, bit of a handful to control when it happens - and that's probably a masterpiece of understatement. Not one I wish to repeat.

 

To suggest that the tread hasn't hardened on a 20 year old tyre is looking through rose-tinted spectacles - and then some. Bollocks in other words. The grip factor has diminished hugely in the dry, and even more so in the wet. Back in the days when I used to get involved in tyre testing at Goodwood with Setyres, who sponsored me in the 70s, we tried a couple of times comparing old and new tyres of the same variety on TR6 and MGB. Lap times on new tyres being 115-120 secs for the 6, 125-130 for the B. Tyres of probably 7 or 8 years old, I can't recall precisely how old, were 7-10 seconds a lap slower and the car was all over the track at the limit. You don't realise the reduced limit until you reach it, then it's time to change the underwear . . . . if you're not boxed up, that is.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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IYou don't realise the reduced limit until you reach it, then it's time to change the underwear . . . . if you're not boxed up, that is.

 

We had a clubmate, driving older 185HR15 on a TR6 while many others in a bunch

driving back from an annual meeting are on modern tyres.

In the wet they all past a change of motorways by a wide corner,

only he drove straight and as all are driving slowly nobody missed him

because there was no reason to get lost.

 

He was lucky to land in a field and more lucky to leave that green without help and later reported

he did not expect anything like that because all drove pretty slow.....

The car just drove straight when turning the steering like on ice.......

 

As these tyres, especially the Michelin, are so extremly expensive there might be a tendency

to drive them too long, also because profile looks in addition like new with our mileage.

I was pretty happy to fit my 195/65 15 on our daily driver before they got dangerous and get fresh ones on the TR6......

Just got 2 new 205/65 VR 15 for about 110 GBP, no more reason to keep them longer as recommended.

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Alec,

 

You know me, if I say something then I genuinely believe it to be true, so why the need to be offensive? And I'm not easily offended.

Edited by Andrew Smith

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Hi Andrew,

 

offensive ? Give over ! :rolleyes:

 

However reasonable the tread surface might feel, and however one might subjectively feel the car is driving normally, objectively the rubber has deteriorated significantly and hardened through the tread depth, and with potentially lethal consequence.

 

You're on the button re the carcass moving around, too long sitting on one part of the tyre for one, and for two because the rubber is hardening the plys are no longer able to react in the intended fashion - rather than reacting in a steady supple fashion the carcass is moving around more in fits and jerks . . . . . .

 

No necrophiliac jokes called for . . . . . :P;)

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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Hi Andrew,

 

Good choice on the XAS.

 

I have 185s on my concours car circa 2001 or so, and no longer push them. I pushed them like hell prior to the restoration and they didn't disappoint, smoking all comers in that size and a few modern 195/65s like the Michelin Pilots I have on my driver.

 

No tubes in mine; can't say if they indicate their preference on the sidewalls...

 

CD8315L9-6-8015.jpg

 

Cheers,

Tom

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Hi Andrew

I bought Michelin XAS tyres and Michelin tubes from Longstone and they said that I had to have tubes. Free delivery and very quick, just a happy customer.

 

(null)

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Hi Folks,

 

Been 'off air' a short while, but tyres are getting ordered tomorrow, with tube - Michelin tell me the requirement for tubes is size dependant; 165/15 need them.

 

Tyres from Blackcircles at £142 fitted and tubes (Michelin: 15 E 13) from Longstone £14 each.

 

Thanks for all the input, even Alec's............. ;)

 

Cheers

Andrew

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Hi Folks,

 

The Michelin XAS c/w tubes were fitted this afternoon - running 22/26 and they have transformed the handling no end!

 

Cheers

Andrew

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