TR Register Technical Seminars TR5/6 engines

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Neil,

 

as an old friend, I have no qualms about suggesting, nay insisting, that you're shovelling bullcrap.

 

There's nothing new about TR seminars, they were first conceived back in my time as Tech Ed, and instituted a year or two later. Excellent they were too, as one TR specialist after another put on a full day event covering one aspect of the car after another . . . . I do recall the competition prize (of the latter 90s) TR7 being largely rebuilt courtesy of the seminars.

 

Sadly the technical seminars were just another of those jolly useful initiatives that faded away with the new century, like so many others.

 

This is yet another good principle of years gone by being revived - getting back to where we once belonged.

 

I wasn't involved in organising the original seminars, but I attended a few, and had spent quite a bit of time in discussion with specialists when the project was first suggested and discussed. These were serious exercises, and treated as such, and all of the various TR outfits who hosted seminar days put in a huge amount of effort. It's not just all the planning and detailing for the day, it's reorganising the premises to suit the purpose, which is half Friday knocked out, and then half of Monday is gone putting it all back in place. It's a workplace, Health & Safety obtains, like it or not, and that in itself takes some considerable amount of time and effort to assess and prepare.

 

I'd suggest that for every hour of the seminar, probably 3 to 4 man hours at least have gone into the exercise before and after the day. From my experience of seminars of yesteryear, they involved 3,4 or 5 members of the specialist's staff on the day, not just one or two. On overtime or time off in lieu. So if the seminar lasts say 7 hours, that's probably 28 man hours on the day, and a similar amount before and after, 50-60 man hours minimum. And what is the rate per hour at the average TR specialist ? £60/hour as an average ? So we're talking upwards of a £3K commitment.

 

So, £50/head for say 30 TR folks equates to what . . . . . £1500 ? Half the notional cost to the supplier, at the very most ?

 

Bear in mind I went through all these equations more than 20 years ago, the principles haven't changed, it's just that the costs have increased.

 

Gift horses and equine dentists . . . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Guest ntc]

That's me told off then Alec I must have had to many free lunch's then and I have played my part in the IWE for many years in the background.It would be interesting to hear Stuarts opinion .

[MikeF]

For every suggestion there always seems to be an opposite reaction

 

I am a director of a Trade association and we hold numerous workshops /seminars in Suppliers places.

Members like this because they can see real machines, current best practice, access real experts, meet their peers for networking, picking up tips, making friends and so on.

Suppliers like it because they have access to the delegates, get 1:1 user feedback, publicity, good will and a better informed user base, possibly some business in the short term and in the longer term. A better informed user base makes for a stronger base that will be around in the longer term.

The situation for the Club is almost entirely analogous, members benefit in the same way, the suppliers benefit as above, the club/marque benefits as it is seen to be well supported by prospective buyers and so on.

 

And the downsides are: .....................................................?

 

Mike

[Dave Ashworth]

Isn't it wonderful that people will put themselves out to help enthusiasts?

Isn't it generous that people will put aside their daily work to help enthusiasts?

And if they do a bit of business into the bargain, well isn't that wonderful too, as it helps them to stay in business, which in turn means we can call on their help if we need to.

You can go and have an engine building day at Classic Car Engines in Gloucester at £500.00 per day, and I am sure that you will learn more than enough to justify your investment in your self and your knowledge.

What a fantastic opportunity to be able to work with people of the Calibre of Steve Hall and his team for not much more than the price of a decent meal and a bottle of wine.

I feel so blessed that people would put themselves out for me, an enthusiast, and make their priceless knowledge available for next to nothing.

In life, there are cynics and there are people full of gratitude. Guess which ones benefit out of life the most?

We are so lucky to have this opportunity.

Dave

Edited February 23, 2015 by Dave Ashworth

[John Morrison]

Waiting for the four pot seminar

 

John.

[Bald Rick]

I'm with you on this Dave.

 

Although I am no longer a member of the Register, I do feel qualified to express on opinion on this subject:

 

I spent the last 20 years of my working life in training and development and as a mechanical engineering technician before that. I have also attended one of Steve Hall's excellent seminars. I would have attended more but there weren't any!

 

In my experience £50 is small beer for a days seminar (including lunch) which was both enjoyable and informative.

 

OK, I'm off back to the sidelines

 

Tony

[Alec Pringle]

" That's me told off then Alec " . . . . aye lad, gradely !

 

You must have been on the white wine instead of the red - too much acidity . . . .

 

We all have those occasional days when opening mouth seems solely for the purpose of swapping feet and deep throating yet another toe . . . .

 

With luck we'll have forming an orderly queue of TR specialists volunteering to host further seminar days, which is how it worked in the past and hopefully will again in the future.

 

But some blighter has to put his head over the parapet, money where his mouth is, one of those . . . . and take the first plunge.

 

It's a cracking good principle, and when you think just how many potential topics there are to cover between TR2 and TR8, there'll be enough there to ensure that every specialist concern that wishes can have a fair crack of the whip over the next few years. We each and every one of us have our favoured suppliers, and it will do no harm for us all to encourage them to consider offering their services for a seminar day in the future. Oak trees and acorns.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[TR5tar]

When I joined the TRR last year, I was hoping that the club would organise technical seminars such as this one, as I'm keen to learn. I see it as exactly the sort of thing a classic car club should provide. And £50 seems reasonable to me for what is on offer. Unfortunately, given the location, it would take me almost three hours to get there and after that I doubt I'd be able to take much in, so I hope that there will be other such seminars throughout the year which are a bit closer for me.

 

Darren

[bob-menhennett]

Back in the 90's I attended as many of the TR Register specialist Seminars as I could.At the time of starting my full nut and bolt restoration the knowledge gained from professionals was invaluable.It gave me confidence to tackle lots of things I hadn't done before and whipped up my enthusiasm to get started.

 

I still remember during the Bodywork seminar, spread over two weekends, in Coventry being told to "chop the body tub in half, with the angle grinder ".

To a man, every attendee who had read general restoration books, thought that the body had to be kept in one piece "at all costs ".

 

We were asked... who's TR had perfect rust free floor pans and sills..nobody put their hands up.

Take measurements, make a template of the door appertures, cut the body tub in half.You and mate can move one half around / turn upside , do all the repairs, do the back half and then put the two halves together with new floor pans and sills.That was the advice.

The guy worked on his own , calling upon mates when required,he done about 40 TRs.His system worked for him and it certainly worked for me.A tried and tested method you don't easily find in text books.

 

If the Register is to thrive... new ( and existing ) members must be encouraged to attend practical sessions, if they wish.It's not compulsory.

Our specialists are to be thanked profusely for setting up/ offering these seminars.They lose money to do so but "we" the consumers soon learn who has the depth of experience and talks a lot of sense.

Bob

Edited February 24, 2015 by bob-menhennett

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Darren,

 

it doesn't take that much more than 3 hours, maybe another 15 or 20 minutes, to get to Blidworth from here - here being the Wiltshire-Somerset border. Oxford (A34) is en route and it can't be more than 2 hours from there to Blidworth . . . . .

 

There are some decent B&Bs in the immediate area, and not costly, which makes an excuse for an overnight and let your better half go off sightseeing or shopping in the area whilst you're playing cars . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[simonjrwinter]

Personally, I think it's a bloody brilliant idea and a veritable bargain.

Compare the cost of getting an expert to rebuild an engine to the cost of rebuilding your own......the satisfaction and knowledge its been done properly outweighs the cost of the seminar.

Even if you never attempt a rebuild, it's very useful info.

 

Simon

[JohnG]

"I'm with you on this Dave.

 

Although I am no longer a member of the Register, I do feel qualified to express on opinion on this subject:

 

I spent the last 20 years of my working life in training and development and as a mechanical engineering technician before that. I have also attended one of Steve Hall's excellent seminars. I would have attended more but there weren't any!

 

In my experience £50 is small beer for a days seminar (including lunch) which was both enjoyable and informative."

 

+1for the above

I spent all my working life in Engineering, the last 15 as a qualified trainer

Many, many businesses love to show their expertise to an interested audience - it benefits all

And £50 is small beer

Edited February 24, 2015 by wjgco

[snowric]

I AM DELIGHTED WITH THIS SEMINAR AND HAVE BOOKED MY PLACE.

 

WELL DONE TR REGISTER. MY LAST BILL AT ENGINUITY WOULD HAVE COVERED THE ENTIRE SEMINAR.

 

AND I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THE LONG DRIVE ALREADY.

 

SNOWY

[iain]

Terrific initiative, looking forward to a 4 pot version.

[4Mal]

I cannot believe that we have a go at something like this. Good on them for arranging something and good on TRE for doing it - I happen to use TRE, but I would still say " good on .." for whoever was doing it.

At the rates quoted it is most certainly not a direct profit opportunity.

 

Can we please stop slapping our club and suppliers

[TR5tar]

Hi Darren,

 

it doesn't take that much more than 3 hours, maybe another 15 or 20 minutes, to get to Blidworth from here - here being the Wiltshire-Somerset border. Oxford (A34) is en route and it can't be more than 2 hours from there to Blidworth . . . . .

 

There are some decent B&Bs in the immediate area, and not costly, which makes an excuse for an overnight and let your better half go off sightseeing or shopping in the area whilst you're playing cars . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

 

Looking more closely Alec, you're correct that it's probably closer to 2 hours than 3, and a B&B is a possibility.

 

Anyway, I've got to stop being older than my years and get out more, so I'm booked.

 

Darren

[monty]

Sounds a great idea. I have looked for tech. stuff like this since joining around 7 or 8 years ago. Very little of interest in the magazine technically, so I will welcome the 4 pot one when it arrives. A pity it is not nearer to Gloucestershire but will make the effort for a TR4 seminar if the time is right. More of this kind of thing would be welcome & I bet if Steve did one @ IWE it would be packed!

Cheers.

[simonjrwinter]

We are HUGELY. lucky we have a great club, great forum, and great knowledge that other members are always willing to share. Added to that the amazing spares availability for pretty much all our cars. This all conspires to make owning and running a TR a relatively painless affair. TR's, MGB's and classic mini's are all very well catered for.

 

Simon

[dblenk]

running a bit late on this one

oil and gas courses run from 500 to 2000 for some day courses plus digs travel etc

 

£50 seems good

 

i always thought Phil Tucker was going to bring more business acumen to the club

 

it can only improve ???

 

tin hat on

[MRG1965]

Hi, I for one, and it would see I'm not alone think this is a very good idea. I do share the concern that the may be a perceived of being associated with a specific supplier, but I can see there are enough people in the forum to provide oversight, but I don't think that will be an issue. I think we all have to understand that the technology in our cars in very much obsolete by modern standards and the number of garages we can/would take our cars to is dwindling and if we are to keep our cars on the road the Register needs to be seen to be promoting this very activity. I support this initiative and would suggest maybe more for specific areas and cars, with different experienced providers.

 

Mark

[Willie Felger]

Great idea and having visited TR Enterprises and seen some of their work I'm sure you'll get excellent value for the fee.

 

As to the cost, it is not just the cost of laying it on, it is the loss of a days' work from the engineers involved.

 

Well done the Register, more power to your elbow.

 

Keep TRucking,

 

Willie

[simonjrwinter]

To make it "fairer", let's see if the other suppliers would like to run seminars as well, 1 does gearboxes/ axles, one does bodywork, one does electrics......then revolve it around so they all get a turn at the different disciplines?

 

Simon

[RogerH]

Why are people jumping to conclusions.

 

I understand that this is not the one and only seminar, there will be others in various parts of the country with different themes.

 

Previous seminars were advertised in TRAction and this one will appear in TRA 281 if it is not sold out before going to the printers.

 

There will be other events on other subjects at other suppliers to come as far as I understand.

 

Roger

[McMuttley]

Ever wanted to park your TR underground ?

 

I can offer an enthralling (huge exaggeration) talk on 'the evolving attitude towards basement development in central London' - any takers !!!

[Guest ntc]

If Wayne had stated from the off there would be other seminars from different suppliers I would not have raised the topic,please feel free to delete it. ( brain in gear as Alec would say).