ELECTRONIC IGNITION

[Paul Hig]

Hi

Currently running original set up with points, but having issues on starting, rough running in heavy traffic and intermittent max rev strangling  (when been in traffic, wont rev over 3k until been driven at 50+ mph for at least 10 minutes), so thinking of changing to electronic system.

What are your thoughts on the following alternatives

• Lumination optronic (easy to fit and seams cost effective)
• 123 electronic  (programmable)
• Accuspark (cheap and cheerful?)
• Any others?

Thanks

1972 TR6 (CP)

 

[TR NIALL]

I think from your description you have other issues so don’t go spending your Cash just yet on upgrades you might not need.

[RobH]

It possibly won't help Paul.

 Either something is wrong in your existing system or  something else is faulty.  The original ignition system works well if it is in good shape.  Strapping on an electronic ignition 'just in case' is not the way forward - you need to find out what is wrong first. 

[Macleesh]

Agree with the comments already made about tracing your issue on your existing setup. However I would still commend an electronic ignition upgrade to bring your ignition system upto more modern standards.

I have Lumenition on mine, not because I chose that particular brand but it was already fitted. Very happy with it, it just works, no experience of the others.

Sean

[Paul Hig]

Thanks chaps

 

I know the fuel system is working ok, but haven't fully investigated the electronics yet, so just doing research before decisions made. I know for's and against's of points vs electronic, its just the electronic options vary from simple to latest tune by phone systems

[Steves_TR6]

With those symptoms on a points setup I would replace the condenser.

these little ba$tards cause no end of weird symptoms and are cheap to replace.

steve

[John McCormack]

I have Lumenition in my TR6 because it was already in it when I bought it 7 years ago. It turns out the Lumenition was already over 20 years old before I got the car. The 3 pin connector broke so I bought a new Lumenition for the TR6 and fixed the connector to fit the old Lumenition into one of my TR2s, my daily driver car. They are both still going strong.

A TR3 I acquired last year has a Pertronix in it from the previous owner. It works great and many TRs in Australia have Pertronix. We usually do a lot of miles here, even the garage queens.

I had a Accuspark in the daily driver TR2. It lasted about a year and then broke down above 3500rpm. They sent me a new one free of charge. It failed as soon as it was fitted, similar symptoms.

But I agree with the others that your issue is not the points. Points work fine and when they do have a problem (usually the condenser) it is a 5 minute job to fix it beside the road. If the electronic ignition fails you either need a spare one with you or the points and condensor to go back in. Where points do let you down is if the distributor is worn the shaft wobbles, especially at low revs, meaning your points gap, dwell and timing are all over the place.

Replace the condensor and rotor button and see if that fixes it. Cheap and easy. If that doesn't work dizzy cap and leads. If there is still a problem the coil. You can do the coil before the cap and leads, whichever is the cheapest first.

Once the problem is resolved fit electronic ignition if you still want to.

[Mike C]

I fitted a Pertronix in 2006- I got sick of having to clean and regap the points  every 1000 miles or so.

I've had no problems with the Pertronix system since I installed it but I do disconnect the LT feed to the coil if I'm working on the car for long periods with the ignition on , engine not running for any reason.

[astontr6]

4 hours ago, Macleesh said:

Agree with the comments already made about tracing your issue on your existing setup. However I would still commend an electronic ignition upgrade to bring your ignition system upto more modern standards.

I have Lumenition on mine, not because I chose that particular brand but it was already fitted. Very happy with it, it just works, no experience of the others.

Sean

+1 My Luminention is over 40 years old??  When my engine and gearbox were being rebuilt I sent the unit back to Luminention for Testing which cost me £20. they even heat soaked it and it passed with flying colours. So I would by their equipment again.

Bruce.

[KiwiTR6]

From my recent experience, definitely check that the resistance of the HT leads is within spec.  Mine were reasonably new and appeared to be in excellent condition, but when measured half of them were miles out.

[TRTOM2498PI]

As above, don't spend money on something you do not need.

 

If your original distributor is in good order, there is nothing wrong with a good set of quality contact breaker points, rotor arm and distributor cap. From freezing temperatures to 40  + degree heat, and anything from idle to 7000 RPM. This applies from a standard car to fast road, although if you're exploring all power from a tuned motor, a 123 tune distributor, or better still, coil-pack & ECU set-up would be my advice after 20+ years running a TR6 regularly.

Edited May 10, 2023 by TRTOM2498PI

[Paul Hig]

Thanks all

[Andy Moltu]

I’ve had a Pirahna (Newtronic) in the 6 for 30 years.

The 4A has an Accuspark and been fine for 5 years so far. They are cheap enough to Keep a spare in the boot.

The Stag ran Lumenition for 15 years but got damaged (didn’t fail) so now has a Pertronix fitted when the dizzy was rebuilt.

[mrehke]

Paul -

My early CP TR6 had Lumenition fitted when I purchased her 2 years ago, and has not missed a beat - do not know how long ago this has been fitted, but suspect around 20 years ago, looking at the receipts file.  

A few more comments - I had an Accuspark which I fitted to my 1955 Land-Rover...the small print stated that you can not leave the ignition switch on without the engine running for any length of time - so I did precisely this to carry out static timing (the L-R has no timing light pointer and is set up for static rather than dynamic timing) - the Accuspark module fried itself and spectacularly and I went back to traditional Points and Condensor!

If renewing your internals for the Distributor, especially the Condensor, avoid cheap modern "Lucas" parts and purchase from Martin Jay aka "The Distributor Doctor" see https://www.distributordoctor.com/  ...he is a TR man too, and sells good reliable parts especially Red Rotor Arms!

Finally do not discount crud in the fuel which may intermittently block the supply flow - it has been known to happen - perhaps clean the fuel filters that you have if they have not been recently...

Good luck and let us know how you progress with sorting this issue and what the gremlin was...!

Mark

[Mike C]

Might be worth doing a plug cut when the engine is running rough. You could have a rich idle mixture which is fouling your plugs in traffic. Maybe your plugs are too cold. A better ignition system will help any fouling  but may not necessarily cure it.

[astontr6]

On 5/9/2023 at 5:50 PM, Paul Hig said:

Hi

Currently running original set up with points, but having issues on starting, rough running in heavy traffic and intermittent max rev strangling  (when been in traffic, wont rev over 3k until been driven at 50+ mph for at least 10 minutes), so thinking of changing to electronic system.

What are your thoughts on the following alternatives

• Lumination optronic (easy to fit and seams cost effective)
• 123 electronic  (programmable)
• Accuspark (cheap and cheerful?)
• Any others?

Thanks

1972 TR6 (CP)

 

When it starts to run rough I would look at your spark plugs especially 5 & 6 to see if they have started to oil up as your M/U might be giving a too rich a mixture. Make sure that the choke lever is fully off on the M/U. I have always used heat grade 5 in my car.

Bruce.

[TRier]

No comment on the underlying problems you are seeing but direct answer to the question, I've just installed 123 on a TR3 and it transformed the car, to be fair the original mechanical unit was in poor order. What I really like about it is that it allows you to do a bespoke tune for your car without a rolling road, on the actual road if you get the bluetooth programmabe one. Ignition123 also sell some very good HT lead material to go with the unit which I also found very good stuff. One thing to be aware of is that you will have to convert to an electronic tacho on a 6 if you want to change to Ignition 123, as far as I know anyway. As a product its superb imo.

 

Niall

[Paul Hig]

Hi All

Turns out one of the issues was a leaking servo, that eventually blew its diaphragm, so messing up the air/fuel mixture (bit weird having revs rise when you brake!). New servo now fitted.  Also some minor play in dizzy shaft. Main electrical issue appears to be that points keep closing up however well you adjust them and tighten the fixings. When first set, old girl runs great, then gradually gets worse and won't rev properly, reset and start again (last time points went out in about 15 miles!!)

Edited June 10, 2023 by Paul Hig

[RobH]

46 minutes ago, Paul Hig said:

Main electrical issue appears to be that points keep closing up however well you adjust them and tighten the fixings. When first set, old girl runs great, then gradually gets worse and won't rev properly, reset and start again (last time points went out in about 15 miles!!)

Something rather wrong there then. On a decent dizzy that does not happen. Is the points baseplate actually moving or is it the plastic cam wearing away, maybe related to the 'minor play'  in the shaft ?  The only force on the baseplate comes from the sprung arm, which is hardly strong enough to overcome the clamping force. 

(I once had a set of points where the contact wasn't riveted properly to the spring. The joint heated up due to the electrical resistance and actually softened the plastic cam, causing the gap to close up after a short time of running.) 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by RobH

[Paul Hig]

RobH. 

Thanks. I'll check. Just done another reset and test drive  and getting same symptoms.  I'll check gaps etc when the old girls cooled down 

[Paul Hig]

Turned out it was an issue with the PRV (now sorted) Electronic ignition fitted as well. Now starts and runs far better

 

[kcsun]

Which one did you choose in the end, I have Luminition and very happy with it. Although if I was replacing it all again I would go for the 123

kc

Edited August 17, 2023 by kcsun

[elclem1]

I would keep the points, but as mentioned change the condenser. 

123 is very expensive for what it is.

the cheaper ones are fine if they work but I had one on my track car and it was rubbish, changed back to points and back to normal running.

But each to their own.

I won't mention peanuts etc as John might have a word  

[Paul Hig]

10 hours ago, kcsun said:

Which one did you choose in the end, I have Luminition and very happy with it. Although if I was replacing it all again I would go for the 123

kc

Went for lamination optronic , which was easy fit and set up. Very happy  so far 

 

[Tim D.]

Used hall effect ( like aldon ignitor) on all my cars for years.  only had one fail and that was my fault. 
tim