Fact or Fiction?

[iain]

I was just browsing TRaction News Letter 36. On the front cover is VRW221 on the Alpine Rally 1958.

On the Inside front cover the text Reads

 

"One of the 3 apple green TR3As being driven by Desmond Titterington on the Alpine Rally.

 

These Tr3A's were slightly wider than standard and had 2138cc engines which may have helped them to defeat the much bigger Austin Healeys"

 

Clearly owning an Ex works car this intrigues me somewhat!.

 

VHP529 was used to develop this new engine configuration and this engine is still present in the car. Complete with unique identifiers.

 

With respect to the extra width is this statement True?

 

If it is do we know how this was achieved?

 

Iain

[RogerH]

Hi Iain,

I don't know if your articler is true but somebody in the US split a TR3 down the middle and inserted a 4" strip all the way down.

This was done to fit it onto a TR4A chassis (I think)

 

Roger

[Hamish]

Here you are Roger.

http://www.britishv8.org/articles/triumph-tr3-plus-4.htm

 

Great thread for on going TRaction articles

"Where are they now" cars from very early TRaction articles or history/old pictures.

 

H

[stuart]

Someones making it up Ian and getting confused with the Beta cars.

Stuart.

[Fireman049]

Your'e quite correct Stuart ~

 

The 'Beta' TR's were the ones with a wider body.

(or was it that they had wider wings?)

 

Tom.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Fireman049

[iain]

The statement does strike me as odd, but stranger things have been known, I thought it worth challenging.......after all it was written in November 1978.

 

Iain

[Don H.]

Width? Hard to imagine, unless it meant track -- via a half inch wider wheel or different rear axle. I'd discount this.

 

Capacity? I've heard that before (not for that rally in particular, but as something that might have been done on occasion). Seems like changing 83 mm pistons and liners for 86 mm wouldn't have been too difficult. Does your car have its original pistons and liners, Iain? What diameter?

[TR NIALL]

I was just browsing TRaction News Letter 36. On the front cover is VRW221 on the Alpine Rally 1958.

On the Inside front cover the text Reads

 

"One of the 3 apple green TR3As being driven by Desmond Titterington on the Alpine Rally.

 

These Tr3A's were slightly wider than standard and had 2138cc engines which may have helped them to defeat the much bigger Austin Healeys"

 

Clearly owning an Ex works car this intrigues me somewhat!.

 

VHP529 was used to develop this new engine configuration and this engine is still present in the car. Complete with unique identifiers.

 

With respect to the extra width is this statement True?

 

If it is do we know how this was achieved?

 

Iain

What Width Wheels were they using,maybe achieved by those wider Wheels.

[iain]

All of the Apple Green cars entered in the the Alpine Rally of 1958 had the 86mm liners and Nimonic 80 Exhaust valves. This is well documented in the interview with Ken Richardson conducted by BillP in his TR Compendium.This was the first use of the larger engine in competition.

 

From then on the cars were variously equipped with 83mm or 86mm engines depending on the regulations for that rally and which would best suit the TR's.

 

Don, yes my car still has its original liners, but not pistons.......they are now +40". I do still have the nemonic 80 valves which are also heavily modified as per the period.

 

Iain

Edited October 9, 2017 by iain

[Don H.]

Thanks, Iain. Nimonic 80A is a pretty exotic superalloy. http://www.specialmetalswiggin.co.uk/pdfs/products/NIMONIC%20alloy%2080A.pdf

[RogerH]

Brewed in Hereford

 

Roger

[Graham Robson]

Just to kill this thread stone dead - none of the five 'works' TR3As which competed in the 1958 French Alpine rally were widened - not even by a fraction of an inch.

 

How do I know ? :

 

1) FIA regulations were quite clear on the fact that modifying bodies in any way was banned at this time.

 

2) There is actually a head-on picture of VRW 221 in the French Alpine rally of 1958, on page 79 of my book THE WORKS TRIUMPHS, where the body shell is demonstrably in standard-shape/condition.

 

Hon. Pres.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Graham Robson

[Alec Pringle]

There was a reason for the statement in 1978, one of the usual reasons for comments about any TR claiming any connection with the factory, and as Graham points out the statement is quite simply not true . . . . . unless of course the writer refers to the application of a hammer to the inner wing enlarging the dimension of the engine bay.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Dave Larnder]

Your'e quite correct Stuart ~

 

The 'Beta' TR's were the ones with a wider body.

(or was it that they had wider wings?)

 

Tom.

Hi Tom

The Betas were only wider in the wings, where they put the parking/indicator lights, and a different grill altogether, something I fancy for my car but with park lights still in original position.

I still have the pictures of Black Beta for reference of the body, but I now nothing of the Engine and Mechanicals.

 

Dave

[Dave Larnder]

Here you are Roger.

http://www.britishv8.org/articles/triumph-tr3-plus-4.htm

 

Great thread for on going TRaction articles

"Where are they now" cars from very early TRaction articles or history/old pictures.

 

H

Hi Hamish

 

Good idea! so come on Ian Cornish tell us about 4VC.

 

Dave

[EdwinTiben]

Hi Tom

The Betas were only wider in the wings, where they put the parking/indicator lights, and a different grill altogether, something I fancy for my car but with park lights still in original position.

I still have the pictures of Black Beta for reference of the body, but I now nothing of the Engine and Mechanicals.

 

Dave

 

 

to have some images about the beta subject:

 

 

 

And someone who did an interesting recreation:

 

 

from mossmotering site.

 

Compare these pictures to the alpine rally pictures:

 

 

 

Interesting drive with the rear wheel...

 

if you have time:

Edited October 11, 2017 by EdwinTiben

[Ben Freer]

Coincidentally there is a great video here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQZ50WWPW4k

 

which may well have been posted before (but I've only just found it!) Hairy or what!!

[EdwinTiben]

Coincidentally there is a great video here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQZ50WWPW4k

 

which may well have been posted before (but I've only just found it!) Hairy or what!!

haha Ben, great minds think alike

[Ian Vincent]

Elf and Safety would have fun with that nowadays!

 

Rgds Ian

[stuart]

 

 

to have some images about the beta subject:

 

 

 

And someone who did an interesting recreation:

 

 

from mossmotering site.

 

Compare these pictures to the alpine rally pictures:

 

 

 

Interesting drive with the rear wheel...

 

if you have time:

LNJ Belongs to one of my customers and although not quite the same as a real Beta is a very well done body nonetheless.

Stuart.

[YOW500]

Hi All.

 

I am the owner of LNJ. My thanks to Stuart for sorting out the initial poor tuning of the car, and to Matt Edley, ( The Dorset Copperfish ) for his work on the all steel body. The chassis is TR4 with the rails deeper, and other parts strengthened to provide a much stiffer platform. The rear axle is also TR4. The Beta, the best side screen car Triumph never built !!!!!!!!!

 

Should anyone have any original information, or photographs of the car I would be grateful.

 

Thank you. Russell

[Don H.]

Thanks for coming in, Russell. Very interesting to hear about your car -- one I didn't know any details about prior to this thread.

[YOW500]

Thanks for coming in, Russell. Very interesting to hear about your car -- one I didn't know any details about prior to this thread.

 

Dave, PM sent. Russell