Guest ntc Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Owing to not being able to use the cars for 6 months both the cars ran faultless before ,I decided to to fire them up today the Pi did not like it the webered car ran faultless your thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GT6M Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) Water has separated frae the Ethanol in Petrol so, yer pump was running water thru it for first few mins the water may ev caused some internal sticking of PRV,or injectors, meb,e even some corrosion too. Ive took steel fuel lines off befoer, , that had rust in them, noo where would that come frae,i wonder,!!1 Me MX was no used for 8 months last yer, started it up, was running really bad, got better as it ran a bit, butt, new fuel in, and it kem too Most fuel of High octane has got the darn stuff, BP,Esso, aint, BUTT, all depends on where yer at, as some parts of the coutry , every thing es it in, M Edited March 2, 2017 by GT6M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Not an expiation next all Pi parts new front to back Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Back in the day when Pi cars were new and we had proper 101/102 octane petrol to use, it was nevertheless recommended that an inhibitor was added to the petrol before a long lay-up was contemplated. Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) Rob Yes back in the day,this setup is as stated all unleaded so why the Weber ok ? a change of fuel will sort the Pi no problem I am sure. Edited March 2, 2017 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 I don't know about PI cars but today I started my TR3a for the first time in about 4 months. When I first tried it wouldn't start so I took the top off one of the carbs and replaced the fuel with new stuff out of a sealed can. It started immediately. This is repeat of when I started it last year at about this time. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 actually neil was the Webered car really running OK?, ...... reason I ask is 'cause my 4A is running 45's and had been sitting in the garage for around 4 months with nearly 3/4 of a tank of Vpower on board, in the recent run to the Alps it just didn't sound right until 2 full tanks of French Shell had been used. This modern pretend petrol starts going "off" as soon as it gets into your tank!! Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) actually neil was the Webered car really running OK?, ...... reason I ask is 'cause my 4A is running 45's and had been sitting in the garage for around 4 months with nearly 3/4 of a tank of Vpower on board, in the recent run to the Alps it just didn't sound right until 2 full tanks of French Shell had been used. This modern pretend petrol starts going "off" as soon as it gets into your tank!! Cheers Rob Yep first turn of the key sounds runs as it should . Edited March 2, 2017 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Take the car down to Chamonix and back and report back!! (you know you want to!!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 I wish I could. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KiwiTR6 Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Not totally unrelated, but interesting. My business sells and services Jet Skis among other things. A 1200cc 4-stroke we sold new 10 years ago was laid up for 5 years with a full tank of gas. For this reason the owners decided to sell it, so took it out for a run, then had it serviced and sold it privately. The new owner brought it into our shop complaining that it was using oil. After a thorough check (the thing had only done 65hrs of running) we found it was down on compression in all cylinders, some worse than others. An inspection with a borescope showed extensive damage to the tops of 3 (out of 4) pistons so the top end came off and new pistons were fitted at not inconsiderable cost (which amazingly the original owners paid for!). The top lands of the 3 pistons had broken away with considerable signs of detonation. The ignition trigger-wheel was undamaged so there was virtually no likely-hood of excessive ignition advance, all we could put the damage down to was 60L of rotten (low octane) fuel in a relatively high compression engine - and a deaf operator! Gavin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) Plenty of things to blame other than/as well as the fuel. Over here on the boating boards it comes up a bit. (If you get a fuel problem it becomes a bit more important out at sea compared to by the roadside.) Usually they put the suss stuff into their car or lawnmower. (??? where it works OK.) Out of interest I contacted Shell about the topic during one burst on the web, and they were happy to vouch for the petrol for over six months (from memory) in a normally sealed tank. (no ethanol in petrol at that time). Both in my boat, and in my mower can, the fuel sits there for well over six months and works when required. Boat has a water seperator/filter, mower doesn't. Use alcohol free fuel which is still possible here. Think fuel takes the blame in a few situations where it is innocent, but most bods will go with their beliefs, and why not. Unbeknownst to us the fuel companies vary the composition a bit from winter to summer (the volatility bit I think), guess the ambient temps in the UK make your mix different to ours, (few over 40C days this summer). Edited March 4, 2017 by littlejim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Perhaps because people dont use them over a winter, 'lay-up' additives are widely available for lawn mowers. Briggs & Stratton brand have "Fuel Fit" that I used last October. Car not restarted yet - waiting for parts! - I'll let you-all know how it goes. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Not totally unrelated, but interesting. My business sells and services Jet Skis among other things. A 1200cc 4-stroke we sold new 10 years ago was laid up for 5 years with a full tank of gas. For this reason the owners decided to sell it, so took it out for a run, then had it serviced and sold it privately. The new owner brought it into our shop complaining that it was using oil. After a thorough check (the thing had only done 65hrs of running) we found it was down on compression in all cylinders, some worse than others. An inspection with a borescope showed extensive damage to the tops of 3 (out of 4) pistons so the top end came off and new pistons were fitted at not inconsiderable cost (which amazingly the original owners paid for!). The top lands of the 3 pistons had broken away with considerable signs of detonation. The ignition trigger-wheel was undamaged so there was virtually no likely-hood of excessive ignition advance, all we could put the damage down to was 60L of rotten (low octane) fuel in a relatively high compression engine - and a deaf operator! 14886028249390.jpg Gavin Gavin, If the fuel was E10 97RON ( ie 10% ethanol) and all of the ethanol separated out with water then its octane would fall to around 94RON http://newenergyandfuel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Ethanols-Impact-on-RON-Octane-Ratings-in-Gasoline.jpg Would that be low enough octane to kill pistons? In UK it is permissible to add butane as a gas to raise the octane. The limit to this is given in a British Standard that is behind a paywall. But degassing would also lower RON and would be 'quite rapid'. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 You all seem to be missing the point? both cars same fuel and level yet the weberd car ran well on it,added 5 liters of fresh to the other and now back to normal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 I would be inclined to think its to do with the very fine tolerances of the metering unit and the way the old fuel tends to gum them up a bit. Webers after all have small holes for metering but nothing with as tight areas as the metering unit. Ask Neil about it he may be able to explain better. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 I would be inclined to think its to do with the very fine tolerances of the metering unit and the way the old fuel tends to gum them up a bit. Webers after all have small holes for metering but nothing with as tight areas as the metering unit. Ask Neil about it he may be able to explain better. Stuart. Logical Spock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GT6M Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 You all seem to be missing the point? both cars same fuel and level yet the weberd car ran well on it,added 5 liters of fresh to the other and now back to normal. Not all, I did say, ..............the water may ev caused some internal sticking of PRV,or injectors, which has noo free,d off,due t,use an new fuel. M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KiwiTR6 Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Gavin, If the fuel was E10 97RON ( ie 10% ethanol) and all of the ethanol separated out with water then its octane would fall to around 94RON http://newenergyandfuel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Ethanols-Impact-on-RON-Octane-Ratings-in-Gasoline.jpg Would that be low enough octane to kill pistons? In UK it is permissible to add butane as a gas to raise the octane. The limit to this is given in a British Standard that is behind a paywall. But degassing would also lower RON and would be 'quite rapid'. Peter Hi Peter, We don't have E10 in small town Kiwi Land. These engines are designed to run on 91 unleaded, but have a relatively high compression approaching 12.5 to 1 so the 5 year old stale fuel was the only likely candidate in an otherwise pristine engine. This was the manufacturer's view also. Regards Gavin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clarkey Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) It may well be that the webber actually atomises the fuel better than the PI so this will cause a better mixture that may well not need the as higher Octane rating as the PI. modern fuels really do not have a very long shelf life, within a few weeks the light ends will evaporate so the octane level will drop and the PI will suffer ,I make a point of starting the car once a week and adding fresh fuel very 2 months and it runs fine.I can see the appeal of webber as they will run well on just about any type of petrol. I have said this before but stay away if you can from E5 Petrol our old timers really don't like the stuff, Esso super does not have it in if it has come from an Esso fuel terminal. As far as i am aware it is the only super grade that is ethanol free. When i have done the trip to Le Mans in the past you have no choice in France but i always make sure i run the tank down and replenish with fresh un ethanol fuel. Edited March 7, 2017 by Clarkey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timhum Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Do both the cars have the same compression ratio? My E type with 9.0 to 1 never seems to have any problems whilst the TR3a with a little over 10.5 to 1 is very susceptible to 'stale' fuel. tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I' m used to put some 2 stroke marine oil into the tank of both TRs. It's designed for 2 stroke boat engines and contains a water inhibitor. One runs on Webers, the other one on EFI. Even after a lay-up both cars start with ease. But the Webers have to be seriously primed as the float chambers are open to the free air as far as I have seen and tend to run low. I think that after a longer lay-up it's recommended to remove the plugs, spray some oil into the cylinders and crank without ignition... Better than doing nothing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 What is the recommended option with regard to fuel over the winter? Leave the tank full, half full or empty with the chance of some corrosion in the tank? My car with Webers has been fine starting during the winter but the other one with SU's has been difficult. Both tanks have been left @ around half full. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Use the car when sensible through the winter Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clarkey Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Use the car when sensible through the winter Bob. +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.