harlequin Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Hi All Yesterday I helped a friend fit a set of solid steering rack mounts to his TR6, all seemed nice and tight so he went for a short test run and as expected the steering was improved. He returned to my drive and did a three point turn before setting off for home, as he turned left at the end of my road things went seriously wrong! He turned the wheel and the car headed straight on, fortunately he was not going to fast and managed to stop. On investigation the mounts were still fixed solid, but the rack was sliding through them!! So off with the mounts and we found that the hole formed by the two half ally blocks was a perfect circle, making the clamping effect marginal at best, probably only gripping on the paint so when Dave did his three point turn the paint gave way allowing the rack to move. The fix is easy just a bit of work with a file to reduce the depth of the upper block by a couple of millimetres so that the clamps do clamp. We have told the supplier of the problem and he checked his stock. He has also informed his suppliers (and offered to pay Dave's laundry bill). As this is a part that most of the TR specialists source from the same vendor please ladies and gents be aware of this issue and double check. George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Thanks for the heads up. I've always been a wary of the "friction only" location and put a jubilee clip between clamp and plate to fill the gap This pic on a Vitesse but I've used it on others too. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) George, Welcome to the forum. That is a shocking - terrible - occurrence. I have used solid rack mount for 20 odd years**, so how a supplier can f88k up their manufacture beggars belief. Steering is the number one critical area safety-wise and I suggest that the supplier and part number be named here. There may be other TR6s on the roads with steering rack held solely by a marginally thicker layer of paint than your friend's rack. Their owners absolutely must be alerted. I think the TRR bears a moral responsibility in this. Do you know if the rack itself was aftermarket ot standard? Peter **Racestrations - they fitted with gap of mm or so each side Edited February 4, 2016 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Peter thank you for the welcome Like you I have used what appears to be the self same rack mounts for 20 years and was stunned when Dave had his incident. In fairness to the supplier he has sourced the parts from one of the big boys probably Moss or Rimmer, and has taken this very seriously, I suspect after untold production runs the tooling is showing signs of wear. Daves rack is a Stanpart item, the supplier has also checked Daves mount against a new Moss rack that he had in stock with the same result, he also checked the solid mounts he had in stock and those on a customers car that had just been fitted with varying results. Nick I was thinking of turning up an alumunium spacer or maybe adapting a standard rubber mount to work as the spacer, but your jubilee clip is spot on and simple, guess what I will be doing Saturday? George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Start with the clamp £1.50 exhaust item end of seen it before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 When you make a clamp like this you put a packing piece between the two parts and machine a round hole. I'll leave it to you to guess what's gone on with this one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Hi George, did your supplier say he was reporting it back to his supplier/wholesaler. If this was a modern car it would be reported back to whatever DVLA department and panic would ensue. Well spotted Roger When buying these things it would be easy to see if it is dodgy. A simple measurement across two diameters - they should be different. Edited February 4, 2016 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 When you make a clamp like this you put a packing piece between the two parts and machine a round hole. I'll leave it to you to guess what's gone on with this one! I wonder if there's a whole production run missed out the packing piece.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Roger Yes the chap who runs the parts counter was going to notify the supplier and I hope recent customers. As an aside I tried to contact the registers 'spares quality team' on this subject but could find no link on the site, I did send a message to the register office yesterday but as yet no response, hence my 1st post George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Bracher Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Very alarming! Do we know the name of the supplier? Buying over the counter would give a chance to inspect the parts, but what about mail order?? Same story again, allow/apply very poor manufacturing QC and hope no-one twigs!! + 1 Peter and Roger's comments! + 1 for the clamping designs, but again, only due to the inventiveness of you guys!!! What about those 'less worldly wise' owners?? I think the supplier should be identified. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Roger Yes the chap who runs the parts counter was going to notify the supplier and I hope recent customers. As an aside I tried to contact the registers 'spares quality team' on this subject but could find no link on the site, I did send a message to the register office yesterday but as yet no response, hence my 1st post George George, Its here: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/pqi Peter Hopefully TR6 owners will inspect their solid rack mounts and check they are tight and with gap. And if not, report it to the pqi too. As John says, fitting u-bolts and jubilees may well not be seen as necessary either by the DIY owner or their garage. I really do think TRR should be pro-active on this, emailing TR5 and 6 owners ( 4s too ??) to alert them.Not all TRR members use the forum. Peter Edited February 4, 2016 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Peter Thank you. I thought it strange not to have a link to the 'pqi' I agree with your e-mail idea to members, this could save someone from a nasty crash and would demonstrate what a great car club we have joined. As for the supplier, its probably most of them, for example I purchased the same mount for my car in Holland years ago. This batch was most likely 100 or so, and with TR specialists ordering maybe 5 at a time they could be anywhere. George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) The same system apply on most post war Triumph (not on the TR7/8) with a non assisted steering rack. A serious warning should be sent to Triumph owners via club forums and magazines, imho. Edited February 5, 2016 by Chris59 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I've sent a warning to the French Triumph Clubs : Nord Triumph Club, Triumph Club de France, Amicale Spitfire, TR Register France, TR5 Passion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I've emailed N Wales members. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 This is by no means the first time I've heard of 'solid mounts' failing to do the intended job properly, on TRs and on other vehicles, without a degree of adjustment. Surprise surprise. A typical diy problem situation I'm afraid . . . . . it seems to me most unlikely that a professional mechanic would have failed to notice that a clamp wasn't going to grip adequately . . . . . A trial fit would have illustrated that the two halves of the mount required tweaking to suit, hardly an unusual occurrence. Most of us are not professional mechanics, so we don't necessarily have the competence to install aftermarket repro and/or modified components which may well need fettling to fit - as opposed to standard OE components which should not require any adjustment. Think about it. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Another possiblity is that this has been "converted" from old-fashioned manual to CNC machining. Somebody assumed the hole to be a full half-circle. Just the kind of error CAD guys make. I'd suggest everybody buys a Vernier caliper and gets used to measuring things before they fit them. This does actually save a lot of grief. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I cannot say whether this was a modification undertaken solely on the Works' TR4 rally cars, but the solid mounts on 4VC have a small peg inserted in one half of each alloy clamp unit, and this peg fits into a hole in the rack itself. Combined with the reinforcement provided by the arms descending from the cross tube, which link with the vertical arms upstanding from the chassis, the whole assembly is exceedingly strong. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 What's the tolerance on the outer diameter of the rack tube? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 with or without paint ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) This really shouldn't be hard to bottom. If you have two mating surfaces it's extremely bad practice to paint either of these mating surfaces, it means you introduce a potential 5 or 10 thou clearance gap on either component, when the paint fractures, which eventually it always does. About 20 years ago there were numbers of trucks either losing wheels or they couldn't get them off the hub when changing them! Paintshops were painting hubs and the inside mating surfaces of the wheels, if the paint was warmed up before it was fully cured (the then two packs could take weeks), by the truck in it's braking cycle the paint softened and then congealed together, forming a pretty substantial bond. Tyre shops were hitting tyres with sledge hammers or had chains through the wheels trying to drag them off the hubs causing damage and not small delays. The other effect was if paint on the wheels and hubs was allowed to harden and then they were used, eventually in service the vibration and constant banging of wheels and tyres into potholes etc caused the hardened paint on wheels and hubs to crack and then the constant fretting of the wheel turned the paint into dust. This introduced a clearance between wheel face and hub which caused the wheels to stress the studs and ...whoops whose wheel is that ? buqqer ! Never paint mating surfaces, if trying to keep rust at bay find another method of surface covering which won't degrade in use Copperslip or whatever and wipe any excess squeezed out off. Mick Richards Edited February 5, 2016 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 I cannot say whether this was a modification undertaken solely on the Works' TR4 rally cars, but the solid mounts on 4VC have a small peg inserted in one half of each alloy clamp unit, and this peg fits into a hole in the rack itself. Combined with the reinforcement provided by the arms descending from the cross tube, which link with the vertical arms upstanding from the chassis, the whole assembly is exceedingly strong. Ian Cornish Exactly the whole nub of the problem. Check the parts book for early TR4 mounts there are two dowels part number 122623 that fit in the mounts and locate in holes in the rack these are not fitted to the so called "Solid rack mounting kit" So without a modified rack casing (shoulders) there is always going to be a possibility that the rack can move slightly or its going to crush the rack tube a bit. I have removed a few of these now on 4a`s 5`s and 6`s and converted them back to the original type of mounting. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 When I fitted a rack and pinion steering to my car I was not very happy that there was no steel plate connecting the two mounting brackets. I was also not happy with the two, what looked like exhaust 'U' clamps used to 'secure' the rack.It was obvious that there was every potential for lateral movement of the rack. I fitted a steel plate between the mounting brackets and then fitted 'solid' rack mounts. These mounts abut directly with the rack and now there is no chance of any lateral movement. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Doesnt that raise the rack height Tom? Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Hi Stuart ~ Yes, I took that into account but decided that the modification far outweighed the fact that the rack was slightly raised. Far better a slightly raised rack than the damn thing moving laterally! Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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