Spinning Wheel Nut

[woodward]

Hi,

I took my new TR4 to get new tyres and one of the rear wheel nuts is spinning…. It also happens to be the one with the special anti-theft wheel nut on it.  What is the best way to deal with this?  Is drilling it out the only option?  Can I access the back of the stud with the wheel still on…?  Maybe I could grind off the back or weld it to the hub?  Any suggestions gratefully received!

Thanks

Myles 

   

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Drill, grind, chisel the offending locking wheel nut off the stud to remove the wheel.

You have to Remove the brake drum to get at the back of the hub flange.  
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REMOVE THE FLANGE WITH A LEGGED PULLER.  It will bend and your pocket will get seriously lightened as you buy a new drive flange.

The studs screw into the front face of the flange and are then peened over from the back to keep them from screwing back out.    A screwed in stud and a blob of weld would probably hold it in place.   Alternative is to remove the screw in stud and fit a type that pushes in from behind and has a head to stop it pulling through.   Same as used on the front hubs of your TR4.

Original type part number 100869.

Press in from behind type

[jerrytr5]

At the risk of stating the obvious, or totally mis-understanding, isn't the special anti theft nut supposed to spin round?

Jerry

[woodward]

Hi Jerry - not this one, it's one that needs a special profile to undo, but doesn't spin normally.

Thanks Peter - would that stud pull through the brake drum or does the shoulder have too big a diameter?

Myles

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Replacement stud that fits from behind the flange rather than screwing in as original.  The head is large enough to not pull through the drive flange and brake drum.

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-100869PRESSFIT

 

Edited April 27 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Z320]

6 hours ago, woodward said:

Hi Jerry - not this one, it's one that needs a special profile to undo, but doesn't spin normally.

Thanks Peter - would that stud pull through the brake drum or does the shoulder have too big a diameter?

Myles

A „wheel rim lock nut“….

[david ferry]

Myles, 

If somehow you can stop that rotation, the job will become significantly easier, as you can simply remove the nut, take the wheel and brake drum off the car and replace the stud with one of these.

http://STUD WHEEL REPAIR TR2-4 (revingtontr.com)

What type of wheels do you have? Are you prepared to scrap the wheel, and replace it?

Just a further thought. I wonder if removing the other wheel nuts and having a friend push/pull on the wheel (car jacked up and very well supported) whilst you try to undo the dodgy stud will help you remove it. I can't remember if the shoulder on the original type stud will fit through the brake drum stud hole.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about making the hole in the flange slightly larger with the peened over end of the stud, as whichever repair method you choose, you'll be making the hole larger anyway.

Good luck. I fear you're going to need it.

David

Edited April 27 by david ferry
Further thought

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

9 hours ago, woodward said:

Hi Jerry - not this one, it's one that needs a special profile to undo, but doesn't spin normally.

Thanks Peter - would that stud pull through the brake drum or does the shoulder have too big a diameter?

Myles

Sorry I misread.

The original stud will pull through the brake drum.  The larger diameter of the stud between the two threads is to locate the brake drum on. 

This is what a drive flange and studs looks like

 

This is the rear drive flange and studs with the brake drum removed (for some reason the axle shaft nut has also been removed  - This is not required to be removed)

[RobH]

If the stud is the threaded-in type and the nut is just spinning without undoing, does that not mean that the stud has come un-screwed from the hub and is now free?  Presumably the only thing stopping it coming out is the locating flange being too wide to come through the hole in the wheel. If that is the case, surely removing the other three wheelnuts will allow the wheel to be taken off complete with that stud. 

Worst case would be if it is the later press-fit type of stud and the spline is no longer gripping.  

[Hamish]

Isn’t the issue that he can’t get the wheel off due to the spinning security nut ?

[james christie]

52 minutes ago, RobH said:

Worst case would be if it is the later press-fit type of stud and the spline is no longer gripping.  

I believe this is unlikely to happen as the flange on the stud has to be ground to fit passed the shoulder at the rear of the hub, hence blocking it from turning.

james

[stuart]

2 hours ago, RobH said:

If the stud is the threaded-in type and the nut is just spinning without undoing, does that not mean that the stud has come un-screwed from the hub and is now free?  Presumably the only thing stopping it coming out is the locating flange being too wide to come through the hole in the wheel. If that is the case, surely removing the other three wheelnuts will allow the wheel to be taken off complete with that stud. 

Worst case would be if it is the later press-fit type of stud and the spline is no longer gripping.  

It wouldnt come through the drum I dont think and so unless he was lucky and no one fitted the two drum retaining screws the wheel still isnt going to come off.

Stuart.

[woodward]

4 hours ago, david ferry said:

Myles, 

If somehow you can stop that rotation, the job will become significantly easier, as you can simply remove the nut, take the wheel and brake drum off the car and replace the stud with one of these.

http://STUD WHEEL REPAIR TR2-4 (revingtontr.com)

What type of wheels do you have? Are you prepared to scrap the wheel, and replace it?

Just a further thought. I wonder if removing the other wheel nuts and having a friend push/pull on the wheel (car jacked up and very well supported) whilst you try to undo the dodgy stud will help you remove it. I can't remember if the shoulder on the original type stud will fit through the brake drum stud hole.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about making the hole in the flange slightly larger with the peened over end of the stud, as whichever repair method you choose, you'll be making the hole larger anyway.

Good luck. I fear you're going to need it.

David

Hi David - Unfortunately the car's got an original set of ARE mags on it so really want to keep the wheel... 

I was thinking maybe to do something similar to what you suggest - undo the other wheel nuts and try to apply some pressure from behind with a long pry bar or similar to give enough friction to undo the nut.  Although I fear that the reason that the stud stripped in the first place is that the nut may be corroded to the stud (although doesn't look like it).  

I'll have a go at it over the weekend - at the moment the car is booked into a place recommended by the tyre shop to have it drilled out.  Apparently they do this a lot on modern cars but the mag wheels are very soft so would rather avoid it if possible.

Thanks

Myles

[woodward]

3 hours ago, RobH said:

If the stud is the threaded-in type and the nut is just spinning without undoing, does that not mean that the stud has come un-screwed from the hub and is now free?  Presumably the only thing stopping it coming out is the locating flange being too wide to come through the hole in the wheel. If that is the case, surely removing the other three wheelnuts will allow the wheel to be taken off complete with that stud. 

Worst case would be if it is the later press-fit type of stud and the spline is no longer gripping.  

Hi Rob.  It seems the stud is not loose but just spinning.  I guess the threads must have stripped when they tried to remove the nut.  They told me they weren't going to use the airtools to remove the nuts so nut sure how this happened, although the car is new to me so maybe it was already an issue on the car...

Myles

[Motorsport Mickey]

Lesson learned long ago. Anti theft nut or bolts on the car it ALWAYS pays to remove the nut or bolt BEFORE the tyre company gorillas attack it with impact guns turned up to humungus torque. Stop outside the premises and remove carefully and then refit when the car comes out with new tyres or whatever on it. So much anguish saved.

Mick Richards

[Harbottle]

+1 most of these guys are fitters! not mechanics. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Hamish]

Is there not a way where you could drill the back plate from under the car then use a long centre punch to re- peen the back of the wheel stud. ? Turning the wheel to line the correct stud with your new hole that could be sealed later with a grommet. 

[david ferry]

6 hours ago, woodward said:

Hi David - Unfortunately the car's got an original set of ARE mags on it so really want to keep the wheel... 

I was thinking maybe to do something similar to what you suggest - undo the other wheel nuts and try to apply some pressure from behind with a long pry bar or similar to give enough friction to undo the nut.  Although I fear that the reason that the stud stripped in the first place is that the nut may be corroded to the stud (although doesn't look like it).  

I'll have a go at it over the weekend - at the moment the car is booked into a place recommended by the tyre shop to have it drilled out.  Apparently they do this a lot on modern cars but the mag wheels are very soft so would rather avoid it if possible.

Thanks

Myles

I wonder what the locking nut is.

As you doubtless know already, you need some special nuts for these wheels.

David

[TR4Tony VC]

Hi Myles

 

There are a couple of options here that might be worth thinking about depending on the type of locking wheel nut you have.

1. Weld the face of the locking nut up so that the weld penetrates the part inside that moves - if you can do this it might spin off like a normal nut. Ive done this and it’s fiddly but successful and minimal damage elsewhere. You do need to use a lot of heat, so watch the mag wheel carefully as the area round the stud can melt.

2. You might be lucky and be able to drill the centre out of the locking wheel nut and the stud which it sits on and progressively get it to weaken such that it snaps off - this way you can get the wheel off and replace the stud. Again this is a minimal damage option but will take hours to do.

3. The last option that I’ve used is to drill a diagonal hole through the outer nut and the inner sleeve and bang a stainless pin through the two bits, the object of which is to fix them together so that you can spin them off gently. You need to measure carefully but this also works but only if you have a flat ish face to drill into.

Regards

 

Tony

 

[PodOne]

Hi Myles

Just a thought but why not take a bit of flat bar cut out a U on one end chafer the ends and U and tap it under the nut/wheel and use an impact gun to try shock it off?

Failing that Dremmel and cut/grind it off.

Or as I had to do once with a very expensive to replace BMW alloy with just your problem had to pay a for a bloke £50 with some specialist tools to get the locking nut off after tyre jockey had over gunned the nuts. He told me he's always busy with car dealers who don't want the expense of replacing damaged alloys due to ham fisted mechanics!

He was so successful he guarantees to get the wheels off without damage or he pays and was in the process of franchising his tools/service. Sorry cant remember his name but Google and I'm sure something should pop up.

Now I remove all the wheel nuts on my cars, Copper slip and use a torque wrench. The locking nuts as above I remove prior and insist on replacing.

Best of luck it no fun and worse if you need to remove the wheel on a dark night in the rain!

Andy