New engine mountings, having difficulty fitting them

[Paul Garvey]

Hi

 

I took the engine and gearbox out, but today when putting them back in the car the front two engine mounts would not fit. The length between the bolt holes on the engine are much wider than the bolt part of the engine mount. This can be seen in the photos. the engine is almost level. the gearbox is in place.

Can anyone advise. The engine mountings were purchased from Moss number 76 in the catalogue. Part number 143057. identical to the ones removed.

[Bleednipple]

Had similar struggle earlier this year, had a pretty similar distance off as in your pic . All I can say is a meaty pry-bar, a piece of scaffold pipe and a big lump hammer eventually resolved it. With a lot of indelicate language. 

If anyone knows a more technical way, I'd love to hear it for next time.

Nigel

[james christie]

You don’t tell us of the circumstances of your engine in and out but has a TR3 front engine mount sneaked in there?
 

james

Edited December 20, 2023 by james christie

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

2 hours ago, Paul Garvey said:

Hi

 

I took the engine and gearbox out, but today when putting them back in the car the front two engine mounts would not fit. The length between the bolt holes on the engine are much wider than the bolt part of the engine mount. This can be seen in the photos. the engine is almost level. the gearbox is in place.

Can anyone advise. The engine mountings were purchased from Moss number 76 in the catalogue. Part number 143057. identical to the ones removed.

What has happened to the inner ring of the front crank pulley?   One half looks shattered.

[Chris59]

The problem might come from the sort of nearly square thick pieces or metal (or wood ?) under each of your engine mounts. 

[peejay4A]

I just had exactly the same problem recently when fitting the uprated Cambridge Motorsport mountings.  Make sure that the lower nuts inside the chassis box are as slack as they can be - only just engaged on the threads.  That gives just enough wiggle on the mountings to persuade the upper threads into the front engine plate before you drop the engine fully down.  You'll need to be able to rock the engine side to side a bit to do this.  Good luck.

[Hamish]

Loose fitting all the parts is essential and you can cut down the threads to make it easier. You just need them long enough for the nylon’s to engage with the thread.

I did mine on the 3a with everything in place rad, steering box, etc with Revington uprated mounts with not flex. 

[keith1948]

The square mounts have the bolts slightly offset and there is a top and bottom side. By that I mean with the cup side facing onto the chassis, the bolt on that side is offset. It is possible to fit it with the bolt slightly up or down depending which way you put it on the chassis. This in turn makes the bolt that goes to the engine have 2 positions. I don't have a square mount to look at but I remember marking those I used to have with "top" so that faced upwards. If it isn't marked on the part then talk to Moss. Its why I decided to use the round mounts. I couldn't seem to get the square ones to fit. The other issue is that the mounting points on the chassis are at an angle so as you move the engine up it moves in relation to the holes so it makes it difficult to line up.

Don't worry about the block of wood at the gearbox end at this point. You may find that doing one side at a time so you can tilt the engine might help. 

Keith

[stuart]

17 hours ago, Chris59 said:

The problem might come from the sort of nearly square thick pieces or metal (or wood ?) under each of your engine mounts. 

Correct Chris. What exactly are they doing there? From what I can see nothing lines up, That maybe actually a TR3 front plate.

Stuart.

[Paul Garvey]

18 hours ago, james christie said:

You don’t tell us of the circumstances of your engine in and out but has a TR3 front engine mount sneaked in there?
 

james

Hi

I took out the engine and gear box to replace the notorious TT1032S oil seal on the rear of the engine, this was an advisory at the last MOT.

At the same time I renewed the sump and timing chain gaskets/seals.

There are only TR4a parts on the car, the wood under the gear box was to support it while I asked for help on this forum.

The engine mounts ate new from MOSS part number 143057.

 

[Paul Garvey]

18 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

What has happened to the inner ring of the front crank pulley?   One half looks shattered.

It's been like that for years so if it isn't causing a problem I leave things alone.

[Paul Garvey]

17 hours ago, Chris59 said:

The problem might come from the sort of nearly square thick pieces or metal (or wood ?) under each of your engine mounts. 

Hi

Thanks for your reply

The "square thick pieces or metal or wood" are metal and are in every TR4a and are threaded to attach the engine mounts to.

[Paul Garvey]

14 hours ago, peejay4A said:

I just had exactly the same problem recently when fitting the uprated Cambridge Motorsport mountings.  Make sure that the lower nuts inside the chassis box are as slack as they can be - only just engaged on the threads.  That gives just enough wiggle on the mountings to persuade the upper threads into the front engine plate before you drop the engine fully down.  You'll need to be able to rock the engine side to side a bit to do this.  Good luck.

Hi

Thank you I will definitely try this once Xmas is over as my TR colleagues who were helping me are now busy with family.

Just so I am clear. I screw the engine mounting in a few turns, them "jiggle" the engine to fit the threaded part onto the engine plate. Put the nuts on a few turns to stop the engine mount "bolt popping" out. Then screw the engine mountings to secure them. Drop the engine and tighten up the nuts on engine mounts?

[stillp]

12 minutes ago, Paul Garvey said:

 

The "square thick pieces or metal or wood" are metal and are in every TR4a and are threaded to attach the engine mounts to.

Not in mine, which has a through hole with a nut on the bottom.

Pete

[peejay4A]

37 minutes ago, Paul Garvey said:

Hi

Thank you I will definitely try this once Xmas is over as my TR colleagues who were helping me are now busy with family.

Just so I am clear. I screw the engine mounting in a few turns, them "jiggle" the engine to fit the threaded part onto the engine plate. Put the nuts on a few turns to stop the engine mount "bolt popping" out. Then screw the engine mountings to secure them. Drop the engine and tighten up the nuts on engine mounts?

Hmmm.  I hadn't noticed the metal blocks.  Presumably they are bolted through into the chassis box section accessible through the lower wishbone from below?  If so that's not how my 4A is arranged.  I wonder if someone needed to raise the engine for some reason.  My engine mounts and all the ones I've seen go between the front engine plate and the chassis, nothing in between.  It sounds as though with your arrangement you have to rotate the engine mounts to screw them into the blocks.  If so, it's not right.

[Dale Moore]

Yes that cross member arrangement is not right  

hsa logo

[stuart]

I reiterate what I said earlier, I think thats a TR3 front plate hence the extra mounting blocks and not actually correct for a TR4/4A

Stuart.

[Paul Garvey]

27 minutes ago, stillp said:

Not in mine, which has a through hole with a nut on the bottom.

Pete

 

57 minutes ago, stillp said:

Not in mine, which has a through hole with a nut on the bottom.

Pete

 

22 minutes ago, peejay4A said:

Hmmm.  I hadn't noticed the metal blocks.  Presumably they are bolted through into the chassis box section accessible through the lower wishbone from below?  If so that's not how my 4A is arranged.  I wonder if someone needed to raise the engine for some reason.  My engine mounts and all the ones I've seen go between the front engine plate and the chassis, nothing in between.  It sounds as though with your arrangement you have to rotate the engine mounts to screw them into the blocks.  If so, it's not right.

I must apologise to those that spotted the lump of iron my mounts are bolted to.

This is the reason the mount bolts are closer on my TR4a.

My problem now is why was this done when rebuilt but more importantly how do do I remove them or modify them so the mountings fit oK. The ones I took off, 1 as OK the other did not have the bolts each side in line due to wear and tear which meant that mounting was worse.

Has anyone any ideas of either how to remove the metal extra or work with the metal extra?

 

[Dale Moore]

How are the blocks attached to the crossmember/chassis, Paul? Hopefully not welded

I think Stuart right. You have a Tr 3 engine there, or at least it's front plate 

Maybe get it back to as is was for now, and try to get hold of a 4a front plate to get things to as they should be at a later stage. 

Dale

[Paul Garvey]

5 hours ago, Paul Garvey said:

 

 

I must apologise to those that spotted the lump of iron my mounts are bolted to.

This is the reason the mount bolts are closer on my TR4a.

My problem now is why was this done when rebuilt but more importantly how do do I remove them or modify them so the mountings fit oK. The ones I took off, 1 as OK the other did not have the bolts each side in line due to wear and tear which meant that mounting was worse.

Has anyone any ideas of either how to remove the metal extra or work with the metal extra?

 

 

5 hours ago, stuart said:

I reiterate what I said earlier, I think thats a TR3 front plate hence the extra mounting blocks and not actually correct for a TR4/4A

Stuart.

This is the car as advertised when I purchased it so I think is a TR4a front plate

1967 Triumph TR4A IRS Midnight Blue

Wonderful last-model year Triumph TR4A IRS roadster in great mechanical and cosmetic condition. The car retains its original engine and 4-speed manual transmission with Overdrive, Surrey top and hood. Refitted with Leather trim and matching MX5 seats (original seats available) various other spares available including luggage rack.

Car Specifications:
Car/ Chassis number: CTC77678
Engine Number: CTC77966E
Odometer: 50952 miles
Transmission: 4-speed manual with O/ D

[Dale Moore]

Browsing Tr 3 and 4 front plates show the nearside bracket on the 4 is chamfered at 45°, which yours has.  Why not just get rid of the blocks and see if the std flex mounts fit then? 

Dale

[RogerH]

8 hours ago, Paul Garvey said:

Hi

Thanks for your reply

The "square thick pieces or metal or wood" are metal and are in every TR4a and are threaded to attach the engine mounts to.

Not in my 4A Paul.

Roger

[Paul Garvey]

2 hours ago, Dale  Moore said:

Browsing Tr 3 and 4 front plates show the nearside bracket on the 4 is chamfered at 45°, which yours has.  Why not just get rid of the blocks and see if the std flex mounts fit then? 

Dale

Looks like I will be taking out the engine and gearbox again to see if the blocks can be easily removed. I can't see any welding so difficult to say at the moment how they were attached 

[Z320]

Not on mine, too.

For adjusting (to get the bolts closer to each other) I slided slotted washers in below the mounts.

Of course, this liftes the engine.

Ciao, Marco 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Z320

[stuart]

14 hours ago, Z320 said:

Not on mine, too.

For adjusting (to get the bolts closer to each other) I slided slotted washers in below the mounts.

Of course, this liftes the engine.

Ciao, Marco 

There has always been the option of washers to tilt the engine slightly for a better fit due to the vagaries of chassis construction on earlier cars item 79 here https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/engine/engines-components/external-engine-tr2-4a-1953-67.html

Stuart.