Neilson Posted October 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2023 14 minutes ago, Malbaby said: Overall it looks good, but does have faults. More pics including the door panel gaps would be helpful. Live axle versus IRS is a personal choice, as is the TR4 style emergency brake position on your left leg. Minor things like the additional puller fan and untidy hydraulic lines in the engine bay would annoy me. More of a concern is ......the question of the inner sill/floor body mounts. One can only assume they were welded in after the oics were taken...Assume new floor pans fitted. Plus ...if the underside of the body was stripped down to bare metal and any rust eliminated, why is so much seam sealer used. My impression is that minor rust areas, may have been cleaned, then liberal amounts of sealer were applied over the primer...The bottom of the spare wheel well looks problematic...Rust was not eliminated as stated, but contained. [What was wrong with the second TR6 pic that you posted] Hi, some really interesting points and some possible concerns! I’ll ask about the inner sills/floor body mounts and see if new floor pans were added. I mentioned about the seam sealer and he told me this was an area that was always overlooked and where rust will occur unless sealed. Not many people do this, but I don’t know if this is the case or not? is this where you mean about the spare wheel container, highlighted in blue? Thanks Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 10 hours ago, ricky30dk said: Am I the only one suffering from rear axle twist/steer? It’s sufficiently noticeable that my wife has started finding reasons not to get in the car….. If it’s “ rear axle steering” then it’s loose or badly lined up. Normally happens if fitted with new springs and not tightened correctly. Was it part of your rebuild ? Start by tightening the U bolt nuts underneath the plate, if you’ve used new nuts there they settle in and need a tighten to go back to solid. If you tighten and it doesn’t improve, then suspect the alignment of the axle tube onto the top of the spring, you don’t say if you have the earlier flatter spring or the later “ deep dish” spring with it’s 3” alloy spacer in between the axle tube and top of the spring. There’s a “ dimple” standing proud of the axle where it fit’s that needs locating into a hole on the spacer or spring as you tighten the U bolt up, otherwise it can move about as you describe. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 ricky30: Stuart has a solid axle TR4A, so should be able to comment and advise on your problem of rear axle twist/steer. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 12 hours ago, ricky30dk said: Am I the only one suffering from rear axle twist/steer? I had that. If you have the same problem it is simply that the U bolts around the axle are not tight enough. Worth a check and an easy fix. Charlie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 There should be a bolt holding all the leaves together in the center. The head of this bolt (uppermost) should locate in a hole in the axle mounting bracket. Sometimes this hole gets stretched resulting in the the axle tube sliding back & forth as power is applied / removed. Fix is to weld a plate to the axle bracket with the correct size hole in the center. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 11 hours ago, Malbaby said: Overall it looks good, but does have faults. More pics including the door panel gaps would be helpful. Live axle versus IRS is a personal choice, as is the TR4 style emergency brake position on your left leg. Minor things like the additional puller fan and untidy hydraulic lines in the engine bay would annoy me. More of a concern is ......the question of the inner sill/floor body mounts. One can only assume they were welded in after the oics were taken...Assume new floor pans fitted. Plus ...if the underside of the body was stripped down to bare metal and any rust eliminated, why is so much seam sealer used. My impression is that minor rust areas, may have been cleaned, then liberal amounts of sealer were applied over the primer...The bottom of the spare wheel well looks problematic...Rust was not eliminated as stated, but contained. [What was wrong with the second TR6 pic that you posted] Well spotted. The missing 4 floor to sill to chassis reinforcers. Pt non750027. https://www.chicdoig.co.uk/car-store/TRIUMPH-TR4-TR4ATR250TR5TR6-FRONT-FLOOR-SILL-4-HOLE-MOUNTING-BRACKET-750027-p421139582 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michel Higuet Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 12 hours ago, Neilson said: One thing he diid mention, was that it has a dynamo that has been changed to a negative earth. Would a dynamo suffer if j was to add a classic clock and new radio/cd? A radio in a TR? You don't listen to the motor when you ride? :-) I have a TR4A royal blue but I find the metallic dashboard of TR4 very fine, give more a vintage look. Like I prefer my original steering wheel too. TR4a suspension smoother? I don't know, never have ride in a TR4 or another TR4a. Very nice car, sealing no problem I did it too before final painting but there is something "special" with the spare wheel boot... But finally I think it's only the photo who give the impression there is a gap between the panels, it is not the case. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 12 hours ago, Malbaby said: Plus ...if the underside of the body was stripped down to bare metal and any rust eliminated, why is so much seam sealer used. My impression is that minor rust areas, may have been cleaned, then liberal amounts of sealer were applied over the primer...The bottom of the spare wheel well looks problematic...Rust was not eliminated as stated, but contained. Seam sealer over the joints is the proper way to ensure there are no water leaks in spot welded seams. I do this all the time. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 11 hours ago, Neilson said: Hi, some really interesting points and some possible concerns! I’ll ask about the inner sills/floor body mounts and see if new floor pans were added. I mentioned about the seam sealer and he told me this was an area that was always overlooked and where rust will occur unless sealed. Not many people do this, but I don’t know if this is the case or not? is this where you mean about the spare wheel container, highlighted in blue? Thanks Neil looks like black sealer . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 49 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Well spotted. The missing 4 floor to sill to chassis reinforcers. Pt non750027. https://www.chicdoig.co.uk/car-store/TRIUMPH-TR4-TR4ATR250TR5TR6-FRONT-FLOOR-SILL-4-HOLE-MOUNTING-BRACKET-750027-p421139582 cannot believe that they are not fitted. If not don't buy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 13 hours ago, ricky30dk said: Am I the only one suffering from rear axle twist/steer? It’s sufficiently noticeable that my wife has started finding reasons not to get in the car….. If it is then I suggest checking "U" bolts for tightness and also replacing rear shackle bushes with poly. Aslo check the front mounting of the rear spring in the chassis and its associated bush. I can throw my solid axle 4A into any bend and it just goes where you point it Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuzanneH Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, roy53 said: Neil it is the colour you were looking for. Looks interesting as well. The IRS is a lot smother ride suspension wise compared to the 4 , but my 4 has Revington competition rear springs so may be not best to compare. A friend and myself both have 5s [IRS ] and 4s and both enjoy the driving the 4s most but this is more the engine , so much torque for the whole rev range that changing gear is cut down compared to the 5. Comfort though the IRS wins hands down. Roy I disagree the TR4 we have is a far smoother ride than our TR4A in which we have driven many many thousands of miles. The TR4 feels “planted” on the road whereas the 4A is “bouncy” but solid and is a very hard ride. Edited October 12, 2023 by SuzanneH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 I have thought that should I ever go over to the "dark side" I would go for a TR4 with a TR4A hood system fitted (& a nice walnut dash !) Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 16 hours ago, ricky30dk said: Am I the only one suffering from rear axle twist/steer? It’s sufficiently noticeable that my wife has started finding reasons not to get in the car….. If you have wire wheels, check that one of the adapters isn’t loose. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 9 hours ago, stuart said: If it is then I suggest checking "U" bolts for tightness and also replacing rear shackle bushes with poly. Aslo check the front mounting of the rear spring in the chassis and its associated bush. I can throw my solid axle 4A into any bend and it just goes where you point it Stuart. Come on Stuart time to fess up yours is a irs chassis modified to a live axle correct? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 9 hours ago, stuart said: Seam sealer over the joints is the proper way to ensure there are no water leaks in spot welded seams. I do this all the time. Stuart. I use seam sealer also...It is the amount/extra spread that is the concern. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted October 12, 2023 Report Share Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) 22 hours ago, Neilson said: Hi, some really interesting points and some possible concerns! I’ll ask about the inner sills/floor body mounts and see if new floor pans were added. I mentioned about the seam sealer and he told me this was an area that was always overlooked and where rust will occur unless sealed. Not many people do this, but I don’t know if this is the case or not? is this where you mean about the spare wheel container, highlighted in blue? Thanks Neil Yes...the bottom panel of the spare wheel well is continuous with a lip that rolls around onto the outside of the vertical panel..there are no joins at the corners....at the bottom of your blue outline there are some ruff looking areas on the bottom panel, rust or other?...there is no reason for any sealer to be applied to this area, unless the bottom panel of the the wheel well was also replaced, or rust contained. Evidence of new floor panels being poorly fitted also, as you can see the welds on the join in the blue circle. Bottom line for me is that the work done that is seen on the underside pics of the body may be acceptable to some, but it lacks quality workmanship. Edited October 12, 2023 by Malbaby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markaluge Posted October 13, 2023 Report Share Posted October 13, 2023 16 hours ago, SuzanneH said: I disagree the TR4 we have is a far smoother ride than our TR4A in which we have driven many many thousands of miles. The TR4 feels “planted” on the road whereas the 4A is “bouncy” but solid and is a very hard ride. My first TR was a TR6 which I purchased in haste when I couldn’t find a TR4A. At the time I was living out in the fens and I too found the rear end to be far too bouncy. I had problems with the live rear axle which required some welding, which all led me to getting my TR4 purchased in April ‘86 and still have today. I also like the white dash, but then I have a white car, so it’s less obvious. I think the wooden dashes aren’t that attractive, they didn’t use the nicest of veneers. This car looks very nice indeed. Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted October 13, 2023 Report Share Posted October 13, 2023 Mark, Just to correct you but a live axle is definitely NOT what is fitted to a TR6 which is what your description appears to indicate. "My first TR was a TR6 which I purchased in haste when I couldn’t find a TR4A. At the time I was living out in the fens and I too found the rear end to be far too bouncy. I had problems with the live rear axle which required some welding, " The live axle is an old description for the even older description of a "cart " axle which describes a rigid rear axle with the diff in the centre, and the propshaft attaching to the front of it in the centre which transmits the turning motion into the diff which splits the drive and then internally by 2 "halfshafts" going to the 2 rear wheels transmits the power to the floor. I have a TR4 and raced a TR4 (different car) and a live axle as fitted to them is a very reliable device which with a minimum of work can give excellent traction and even a comfortable ride but is often regarded as being unsophisticated...which is certainly is. The rear independent suspension on the TR4a through to TR6 is obviously more modern and of a more sophisticated but imperfect design and suffers with being fitted to a budget priced sports car range with deficiencies which can be costly to remedy. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neilson Posted October 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2023 22 hours ago, Michel Higuet said: A radio in a TR? You don't listen to the motor when you ride? :-) I have a TR4A royal blue but I find the metallic dashboard of TR4 very fine, give more a vintage look. Like I prefer my original steering wheel too. TR4a suspension smoother? I don't know, never have ride in a TR4 or another TR4a. Very nice car, sealing no problem I did it too before final painting but there is something "special" with the spare wheel boot... But finally I think it's only the photo who give the impression there is a gap between the panels, it is not the case. Thanks for the reassurance Michel ;-) I’m sure the engine noise will be all I listen to once I hopefully purchase it haha! Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neilson Posted October 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2023 12 hours ago, Malbaby said: Yes...the bottom panel of the spare wheel well is continuous with a lip that rolls around onto the outside of the vertical panel..there are no joins at the corners....at the bottom of your blue outline there are some ruff looking areas on the bottom panel, rust or other?...there is no reason for any sealer to be applied to this area, unless the bottom panel of the the wheel well was also replaced, or rust contained. Evidence of new floor panels being poorly fitted also, as you can see the welds on the join in the blue circle. Bottom line for me is that the work done that is seen on the underside pics of the body may be acceptable to some, but it lacks quality workmanship. Thanks for the advice. I’ve posed the question to the seller, so hopefully he’ll be able to provide some answers. He did say he has extensive images of the rebuild so I’m guessing they’ll be up to date photos and a reason for the spare wheel well. Thanks Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neilson Posted October 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2023 22 hours ago, stuart said: Seam sealer over the joints is the proper way to ensure there are no water leaks in spot welded seams. I do this all the time. Stuart. Thanks Stuart, appreciate your help. Hopefully this turns into a well sorted car! Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted October 13, 2023 Report Share Posted October 13, 2023 54 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said: Mark, Just to correct you but a live axle is definitely NOT what is fitted to a TR6 which is what your description appears to indicate. . Mick Richards I don't know Mick. I have driven TR6's that felt as the though the rear axle was alive and trying to leave the chassis. One particularly fun one had a bodged telescopic rear shock conversion that broke free when the shock stem snapped out of the tube. Bang, Rattle, Skip.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 13, 2023 Report Share Posted October 13, 2023 13 hours ago, ntc said: Come on Stuart time to fess up yours is a irs chassis modified to a live axle correct? Which is why I was replying to another live axle owner who was worried that his car was wandering on the rear. Nothing to do with the differences between a 4 and a 4a Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted October 13, 2023 Report Share Posted October 13, 2023 13 hours ago, ntc said: Come on Stuart time to fess up yours is a irs chassis modified to a live axle correct? Do not all live axle 4A have an IRS chassis ? Done for the USA market for some reason . Roy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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