ULEZ - not the rant you might be expecting!

[john.r.davies]

The Bike MoT doesn't include an emissions test (why?!?) but surely you could ask the operator to do one, do doubt for an extra fee?

It only involves ticking a probe up the exhaust pipe, and checking CO, Hydrocarbons and Lambda at "Fast Idle" and "Idle":

See: MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 8. Nuisance - Guidance - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

JOhn

Edited August 14, 2023 by john.r.davies

[Hawk]

Strange - i replied to this yesterday but post not here?  I did get a few error messages and problems loading pages so maybe an IT glitch?  

Anyway ... I have no idea why motorcycles are not emissions tested during MOT.  Maybe because they are known to emit very little by way of harmful gases? Certainly less than my exempt TR!  

I am quite sure my MOT man would do an emissions check for me but that serves no purpose as the Mayor will not accept this.  I do have the option of having my bikes tested by an accredited tester for £175 per bike....and then petitioning to have my bikes exempted if they pass.  But with no guarantees after an investment in time and money.  

 

[acaie]

It's a bit off topic, but you may be interesteed to know that my daughter has just taken delivery of a 21 reg fully loaded Renault Zoe for 13.5k. Very much the same price as a comparable Fiesta. Today she has been charging it on sunbeams - 0p/mile. Tonight for four hours she can charge it at less than 10p/kWh - less than 3p/mile. No car tax. No doubt it it will sooner or later get taxed, but in the meantime she's making hay (mileage) while the sun shines. The Bristol ULEZ was part of the reason for her choice. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by acaie

[Hawk]

Small electric city cars are great (and very cheap to run) but have serious limitations - range.  The Zoe was an option I considered but the claimed range of 245 miles dropped to well under 150 as soon as I settled at 70 mph on the motorway .... and immediately below 100 miles when I drove at 80 on a (ahem) private road.  

So no use for my regular round trip to West London.  

In fact it is not just small cars.  I spoke to a Tesla dealer who told me that I would never see claimed 300 + miles and would be lucky to get 200 miles if I was crusing at 70 ..... and maybe 160 in the winter!!!    

[acaie]

1 hour ago, Hawk said:

Small electric city cars are great (and very cheap to run) but have serious limitations - range.  The Zoe was an option I considered but the claimed range of 245 miles dropped to well under 150 as soon as I settled at 70 mph on the motorway .... and immediately below 100 miles when I drove at 80 on a (ahem) private road.  

So no use for my regular round trip to West London.  

In fact it is not just small cars.  I spoke to a Tesla dealer who told me that I would never see claimed 300 + miles and would be lucky to get 200 miles if I was crusing at 70 ..... and maybe 160 in the winter!!!    

I oo have a Zoe and my regular trip to Surrey is 110 miles each way. When I get there I go round the corner to plug in at Waitrose and do the short walk to my destination, and walk back to pick it up an hour later.

[Hawk]

1 hour ago, acaie said:

I oo have a Zoe and my regular trip to Surrey is 110 miles each way. When I get there I go round the corner to plug in at Waitrose and do the short walk to my destination, and walk back to pick it up an hour later.

Lucky you.  But not an option for me. 

[RobH]

1 hour ago, acaie said:

When I get there I go round the corner to plug in at Waitrose and do the short walk to my destination, and walk back to pick it up an hour later.

That might work now, but what about later when there will be a lot more cars all competing for that charging point......?

[PodOne]

Even less range as the batteries deteriorate and require a further "green" replacement which will be more expensive than the car making them a very expensive transport and likely scrap while the old nasty fossil fuel types will keep going.

I recon that the lead up to 2030 will see a rush to buy fossil fuel cars and an increase in the value of second hand ones which is the real green solution in the medium term. 

I had a little laugh at the que for the charging points at the services on the way back from the International with others sat in the cars willing the charge to have completed as the have a further two stops to get in before getting home!

Andy 

 

[TorontoTim]

Re: charging. Surely the future is for all vehicles to have a common, easily plug in/plug out battery pack so that you pull up to a "filling" station, pull out your depleted battery pack, pay a fee and pick up a new one which you plug back in a drive away. 

Think of a BBQ propane tank where you drop off an empty and pick up a full one.  Or battery driven power tools - one pack in the tool, one on charge; run out of juice, swap over and bingo.

No delay, no charging time, just pull in, swap the battery pack and keep going. 

Nah, that seems way too easy. 

Tim

[Hawk]

^^^^ Not unless they get miraculously smaller and lighter.  Battery packs can be upwards of half a ton and even small batteries (like you find in hybrids are only good for 25 miles) are approaching 150 kgs.  

[Lebro]

And whats to to stop someone with a knackered battery swapping it for a good one with no extra charge  expense.  someone's going to loose out down the line.

Bob

[Mick Forey]

13 hours ago, PodOne said:

Even less range as the batteries deteriorate and require a further "green" replacement which will be more expensive than the car making them a very expensive transport

Andy, that was certainly true 10-12 years ago with the early Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe EVs but battery technology and more importantly battery thermal management have transformed EV battery life today. Tesla estimates their current battery life to be equivalent to 1 million miles but the car will not last that long. Car life is still today what it was 50 years ago - an average of 8 years to scrap. So, on average, the battery will now outlast the car. The second hand battery market is booming with many companies now using them to produce battery packs for home storage or even local grid storage. When second life batteries are used for storage their life is further extended as they are no longer subject to the high discharge rates necessary in an EV. Some think that their second life could be 15-20 years, after being taken out of a scrap car.

Life moves on, thanks to engineers.

Mick

[RobH]

6 minutes ago, Mick Forey said:

Car life is still today what it was 50 years ago - an average of 8 years to scrap

What utter nonsense.  That is the average age of the present car fleet in the UK Mick  - not the expected life, which is more like 20 years +. 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by RobH

[Mick Forey]

Got that from a US source: "Consumer Reports (www.consumerreports.org/) says the average life expectancy of a new vehicle these days is around 8 years or 150,000 miles. Of course, some well-built vehicles can go 15 years and 300,000, if properly maintained." Perhaps life expectancy is shorter in the US.

Reading more European and Asian sources it appears to be 12-15 years on average. Clearly individual cars or brands do much better than others.

The point of batteries outlasting cars it still valid.

Mick

[PodOne]

I’d be worried if l purchased a EV and it lasted only 8 years given the premium cost over the equivalent fossil fuel cars. Strange the batteries warranties are 5-7 years. 
 

The cars I ran in the 80ies saw 250k from Vauxhall and other mid range manufacturers did the same. 
 

Hoping to keep the current car for 15 years!

Theres a lot more engineering required before I’d consider a swap the current offering I see as expensive prototypes for the misinformed.

Andy
 

 

[Hawk]

3 hours ago, Mick Forey said:

Got that from a US source: "Consumer Reports (www.consumerreports.org/) says the average life expectancy of a new vehicle these days is around 8 years or 150,000 miles. Of course, some well-built vehicles can go 15 years and 300,000, if properly maintained." Perhaps life expectancy is shorter in the US.

Reading more European and Asian sources it appears to be 12-15 years on average. Clearly individual cars or brands do much better than others.

The point of batteries outlasting cars it still valid.

Mick

I'd suspect that life expectancy of 12-15 years  is nothing to do with how long cars can last but rather our attitude to possessions and a throw away culture. 

A lot of people now don't own their car, they lease or 'buy' it on PCP. And then it will be scrapped as not economical to repair. 

 

[TorontoTim]

Plug-in/plug-out batteries may not be feasible now, but the key part of my post was "...the future is..." 

[PodOne]

4 hours ago, Hawk said:

I'd suspect that life expectancy of 12-15 years  is nothing to do with how long cars can last but rather our attitude to possessions and a throw away culture. 

A lot of people now don't own their car, they lease or 'buy' it on PCP. And then it will be scrapped as not economical to repair. 

 

Great point manufactures love to provide the next pleasure hit to satisfy the desire for something new "Emperors new cloths"!

[Deggers]

8 hours ago, TorontoTim said:

Plug-in/plug-out batteries may not be feasible now, but the key part of my post was "...the future is..." 

Looks like the future's already here.  

 

Deggers

[Lebro]

so it can re-charge up to 300 odd batteries a day, must have a good power source

[Crawfie]

3 hours ago, Lebro said:

so it can re-charge up to 300 odd batteries a day, must have a good power source

Yes ….from coal powered power stations !!

[RobH]

You may find this interesting. A bit of a rant but worth watching the whole thing.  

 

 

[RogerH]

We didn't build Nuclear power stations when we had the expertise

We shut down our fossil fuel power stations and relied on our enemies

We plan to shut down coal mines even though a number of specialist users require it.

We are to  ban petrol/diesel and go over to electric - BUT we have a lack of generation capacity

The electric cars have have so many minus characteristics 

Wind and Solar cannot be relied upon (a bit like the Russians)

The list goes on

Since the end of World War 2 the British Gov't have not been able to put a decent plan in progress for so many things

We  strike it rich with North Sea Gas and waste the valuable income.  Then we shut it down to appease the Green woke brigade

 

Where is the plan

 

Roger

[james christie]

1 hour ago, RogerH said:

We  strike it rich with North Sea Gas and waste the valuable income.

A late cynical Frenchman resident in London for many years told me that the only useful item built with North Sea revenues was the M25.

james

[RogerH]

Spot on

 

Roger