Wire wheel spinner hammer

[David Arrowsmith]

I need to buy a hammer for removal of the spinners on TR2, but what to buy? What weight do I need? Should I get copper/leather, rubber/nylon? I’d prefer to buy on Amazon if possible and I am not wild about spending a lot on something that won’t be used much. Suggestions welcome, thanks.

[Bfg]

my recommendation is to not buy a rubber faced hammer, even though some are supposedly for the task. I bought an expensive Thor hammer for the Jag and it was both ineffective (too much bounce), physically MUCH too big (which for the angle of swing made it all too easy to catch the wheel-arch, and so top heavy that it was difficult to use with any accuracy.  I also inherited a purpose-intended hide-faced hammer but in practice it's not heavy enough for tight wheel-spinners.  Similarly a nylon one ..lightweight materials so backed with steel which makes it bulky and imbalanced, and that also bounces.  It's years since I've used a copper one, but an old lead one works pretty well because it's compact for its weight. Unfortunately the malleability of the material makes it look pretty ugly after a few years of use. 

In the end I resolved each of these issue with a long-handle lump hammer (the sort you see a builder or someone laying driveway corner-stones with) which is heavy enough (mine is about 2-1/2 lb), well balanced, has a decent handle and a reasonably compact head ..so it's easy to aim and accurately control in the close proximity of body panels and spokes.  However I only use that together with a block of softwood timber ..so i never hit the spinner itself, but use the block of timber as a drift. 

Personally I find the (planed less than) 4x2 block in the photo below is a good length at 14.5" long.  The key to this is that ;  with one end of the block resting on the spinner's ear, the other end of the block comes out of the wheel-arch. That allows a good swing of the hammer (which you cannot do within the confines of a wheel arch) and  it offers a big target to safely strike ..well clear of any spokes.! 

The same block is similarly used for other ' fine adjustments' (sometimes its used as a mallet in its own right),  and then again is used when jacking up under the chassis, or as a chock ..so its space in the boot is easily justified.

To avoid the wood splitting you could wrap binding-wire around the ends, but I never bother. After a while I just find myself another off-cut.  I've used this combination on several cars now and have no plans to revert to a hammer specifically marketed for the purpose. 

That's just my opinion of course, but i hope it proves useful.

Pete

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Bfg

[Z320]

At least at Germany you can buy a suitable socket for the nut with 1/2“ or 3/4“ connection.

This allows you also to lock the nut with the correct torque of 300 Nm.

This is what I recommend to buy.

ciao, Marco 

[Drewmotty]

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/79712-wire-wheel-mallet/page/2/

 

[boxofbits]

I’ve always used a copper hammer directly on the spinner. The copper face means little damage to the steel spinner. I haven’t yet hit the bodywork but there’s always a first time!  I always did MG’s and Jaguar in my first job the same way even at a main dealer, and have never had a problem. In my opinion you will get less ‘feel’ using a block of wood and hammer, and if you strike the wood incorrectly you will get a hell of a jolt through your hand, but then that’s personal choice!
 

The other alternative is to fit the spinners which have a large nut, and using the dedicated spanner. 
 

https://www.classic-spares.com/product/wheel-hammer/

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/road-wheels-tr2-4a-1953-67.html

Kevin

Edited February 12, 2023 by boxofbits

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Have some fun and make one?

 

 

[Lebro]

While we are on the subject of mallets,  how do you replace the worn out hide part of a copper / hide mallet ? you can get new ones no problem, but how to fit so they don't fall out again ?

Bob

[john.r.davies]

There's a couple of YouTube videos on how to restore a rawhide hammer. but they look cosmetic rather than practical to me.  I mean, compress a roll of hide with a jubilee clip?  Pull the other one!  (10) Vintage Thor Rawhide Hammer Restauration - YouTube

But Thor - that makers, not the god! - sell:  Replacement Faces - Thor Hammer Company Limited   Ask them how to it?    I suspect a multi-ton press is involved!

John

[Don H.]

I've had a home-built (well, machine-shop-home built) lead hammer for decades.  There are some things it does uniquely well.  But I don't use it on my wire wheels 'cause the sharpish edges of the knockoffs (using American terminology) chew it up pretty good.

Rawhide works, and I have a Thor copper hammer too, but neither of those get used.  They're a bit light.  The copper hammer stays in the car's tool kit.

I use a polyurethane dead-blow hammer, a big one.  Man, that's the ticket as far as I'm concerned.  Couldn't work better.

Mine is a 53-oz (3.3 lb / 1.5 kg) soft-face dead blow from the US small-town maker Trusty Cook.  About fifty bucks over here.
https://www.trustycook.com/product/standard-hammer-model-4/

 

 

[Drewmotty]

I’ve found that a lead mallet is the best option. A relatively small lead hammer is heavy enough to do the job, soft enough not to damage the spinners and give an effective dead blow. 
copper is too hard and will damage the spinner, hide is too soft and deforms when hitting the narrow spinner ear. Rubber and nylon are too bouncy and not heavy enough until they’re too big to wield effectively. 
By on-line direct from Thor. 

[Stephen Chester]

Most Triumph spares shops stock a wooden tool that fits over the spinner.  the length provides plenty of leverage to tighten / loosen when hit with a hide hammer, also sold by same spares shops.

Price for tool about £15 . Good value for preserving the chrome on spinners.

 

 

[John McCormack]

4 hours ago, Stephen Chester said:

Most Triumph spares shops stock a wooden tool that fits over the spinner.  the length provides plenty of leverage to tighten / loosen when hit with a hide hammer, also sold by same spares shops.

Price for tool about £15 . Good value for preserving the chrome on spinners.

 

 

The wooden tools are very difficult to get in the right position on the spinner and I've found with mine, from Moss, it started breaking up almost straight away.

I use the copper Thor hammer. On my everyday driver it has damaged the spinners but they are 15 or so years old and they match the car's patina.

I use a new Thor hammer on my concours car, after 15 years the old one has compressed the copper so it is too hard, usually tightening with a block of wood as noted above. I then give the spinner a lightish tap with the copper directly until it doesn't rotate any further and you can hear that 'right' sound that tells you it is tight.

A number of owners tell me they never tighten the spinners as they will tighten with the wheel's rotation. 47 years' experience, and the logic that there is very little inertia in a small spinner of small diameter, tells me this is not true. In my experience the spinner needs to be tapped tight until it doesn't move any further. This is achieved by tapping the spinner with the copper hammer, not big hard blows but a tap using mainly the weight of the hammer plus a bit of added force. Experience tells you how much.

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by John McCormack

[Z320]

John,

you are absolutely right: center nuts on our wire wheels are not self tightening,

only not self opening ( by vibration) by the LH/RH thread on the correct side of the car.

It would be self tightening on the powered rear axle (not on the pushed front axle) with the shaft / adapters not toothed.

Like on a angle grinder or grinding bench.

In this case the powered axle —> wheel can move and lock the nut, but the toothed adapters/ wire wheel cars don’t allow this.

Luckily!

Because with the adapters not toothed and braking the car all 4 wheels would open the nuts and we will loose all 4 wheels at once.

Knowing this I did (anyway) a test some years ago:

out for a 200 miles tour on country roads I locked the nuts only with 200 Nm instead of 300 Nm.

This was an endless and absolutely annoying „clonk-clonk“ drive for about 2/3 of the way until my wife asked me what‘s the problem with our TR.

I told here and she called me an @&?!@ doing things against better knowing only because of „others“ tell me bonfire stories.

I stopped, locked the nuts with my spanner tool up to 300 Nm and we had a lovely and clonk-less drive from that moment.

Yes, she is lovely, but can tell the truth….

Ciao, Marco

btw: another bonfire story is grease on the adapter cone.

Things you want to slide on each other you have to grease,

things you want to have a tight fit on each outer you don’t grease.

[Lebro]

I beg to differ (as I did in 2021 when I wrote this):

 

Inertia has nothing to do with it !

it is the action of two circles of slightly different diameters rotating together, but only touching at one spot (at the top).

This happens when the two cone profiles are not forced together

The larger diameter one (spinner) will rotate more slowly, & so will tighten it's self onto the smaller dia one (wheel)

Once all the free movement had been removed then they will rotate together.

I'm sure it will be possible to tighten the spinner further with a mallet, as there will be some "elasticity" in the steel, but yes if left on the loose side they will tighten up. (in forward direction only of course!)

Bob

[Z320]

Bob, maybe, but not tight enough.

Believe me, I made this annoying self test and drove hours without any self tightening.

[Z320]

Do you agree with another test?

I put a M12 threaded bar in my lathe, a heavy „ring nut“ on it abd speed it up to 4,000 revs/ min.

Is the nut self tightening like a M12 must be tighted up?

[john.r.davies]

When I had the honour of being appointed garage boy to the Michael Cotti Racing team at CLM in 2106, my pit stop task was  to go around the wheels with the copper hammer and tighten the spinners.  How tight?   "As tight as you can!"

John

[Stephen Chester]

I have used the wooden tool as supplied by TR SHOP London without any problems. Sure due to the nature of wood, it eventually break up, but how many times do you need to remove the wheels anyway? 

I would definitely recommend it, and for £15 cannot go wrong!

[Don H.]

12 hours ago, John McCormack said:

The wooden tools are very difficult to get in the right position on the spinner and I've found with mine, from Moss, it started breaking up almost straight away....

+1.  My experience too.  I'd go so far as to say the wooden tool is useless.

[Moliver]

Hi All, 

I know that the "FBH" is commonly referred to as a useful tool for british cars.

Although suitable for many roadside repairs in general, I consider attached tool to be the much more elegant approach...

Cheers

Oliver

[DesNoble]

I now use the wooden tool plus a mallet. I don't know how people can say that they tighten them up to 200 or 300 Nm. At my last MOT the tester pointed out that the spinners were not tight enough so I agree with the tight as you can or thereabouts.

[Don H.]

4 hours ago, Moliver said:

Hi All, 

I know that the "FBH" is commonly referred to as a useful tool for british cars.

Although suitable for many roadside repairs in general, I consider attached tool to be the much more elegant approach...

Cheers

Oliver

I’ve seen those special sockets used at Goodwood in combination with about a four-foot Snap-on torque wrench.  That’s a *very* nice way to go!

Here's the link to the Triumph specific spinner sockets on the oldtimertools.de website.
https://www.oldtimertools.de/Vehicle-Type/Triumph/

Edited February 13, 2023 by Don H.

[Z320]

1 hour ago, DesNoble said:

I don't know how people can say that they tighten them up to 200 or 300 Nm.

Easy,

tested with a luggage scale I know I can pull max. 50 kg (500 N) in this position (take care of your back).

So I made the lever 300 Nm / 500 N = 60 cm long.

That's a "natural" torque whench, like many spanners are due to their construction: tight x lenght = needed torque.

Ciao, Marco

[Moliver]

There are several versions on the market, the above one can be sourced at www. bastuck.de - part no F18 SPT

[Moliver]

2 minutes ago, Z320 said:

Easy,

tested with a luggage scale I know I can pull max. 50 kg (500 N) in this position (take care of your back).

So I made the lever 300 Nm / 500 N = 60 cm long.

That's a "natural" torque whench, like many spanners are due to their construction: tight x lenght = needed torque.

Ciao, Marco

Always consider that you want to loosen them sometime and not everybody has an elphant handy to apply enough friction to the wheels. I consider 300 Nm to be very sufficient..... I do use an appropriate torque wrench.