PodOne Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Evening all In need of a complete loom and was planning on using Auto Sparks but they have a very long lead time of around 20 weeks. I'm a bit loath to order from elsewhere but has anyone any experience of using looms from Rimmers or the others with regard to quality etc. Thanks Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Hi Andy, before ordering from any supplier find out what colour the outside tape is. Somebody on here got one that had blue tape. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jpmf Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 I used a Moss one, purchased about a year ago, only complaint I have is the clasps for holding the ignition and oil warning light holders into the back of the clocks is barely strong enough to support it's own weight. If like me you like to fit things five or six times the clasp gets left in the back of the clock, a dab of super glue soon rectified the problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Autosparks are very professional and my loom has lasted for decades. I should have ordered a bespoke loom with feeds for the spotlamp relay and other extras. But at the time I was keen to get the full restoration finished . Rimmers have an answer to any problem you have " We have sold many of them and never had a problem " But 20 weeks is a long wait. Did you see them making the new loom for the TVR on Wheeler Dealers recently.? Autosparks are a proper supplier Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 28 minutes ago, jpmf said: I used a Moss one, purchased about a year ago, only complaint I have is the clasps for holding the ignition and oil warning light holders into the back of the clocks is barely strong enough to support it's own weight. Well, I have an Autosparks loom and it has the same issue! The fit of the bulb holders in the instruments is not as good as the old originals that came out. Wiring to these bulbs was a bit short too. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 If you want a standard loom try the TR shop Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 I have a loom from Advance Autoelectrics in the US. It’s brilliant but definitely not original. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted February 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Thanks all for the feedback so far. Yes I saw the TR7 loom on Wheeler Dealers not surprised it was needed given the state of loom after the DIY mice had been in! Agree Auto Sparks are likely the best as I was wanting to add radio feeds, spots and electric fan. I suspect other suppliers would be simply Standard and require DIY additions which from past experience never look as nice especially if wrapped in Rogers blue tape! There was a Advance Autoelectrics kit offered on e bay last year wish I'd have bought it now. Think I might have to simply order it now from AS as I can't bring myself to use Rimmers for anything if there is an alternative elsewhere given past issues. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Make your own that way you know it’s right easier than you think and enjoying Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 12 hours ago, ntc said: Make your own that way you know it’s right easier than you think and enjoying I made my own for an Italia as no-one does a loom for it plus I had to reproduce how they did it originally as its a bit of a strange one (Well it is Italian) Start with an original very tatty loom, buy a late 3a loom and a huge amount of every colour and relevant thickness wire, a large sheet of paper, a roll of heat shrink, a bag of new bullets and Lucar connectors, a roll of the proper loom tape, a soldering iron and a couple of spare days and voila! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted February 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Thought had crossed my mind Stuart about using the old one as a pattern but by the time I’ve bought all the wire etc not sure it would be economic? Who sells the correct wire etc? Mind you at least I would be able to fit extra fusing and circuits for fans etc Will have a ponder! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 for a 3 i need to cover in fabric . Not an option. or is it ???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Here is one source wire: https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/category/10 cloth tape; https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product_list/68 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 I have had two Autosparks TR6 looms in the last few months: One - Fitted well, however, they had fitted the voltmeter wiring as requested and deleted 2 of the 3 ammeter wires, for reasons best known to themselves they left one in the car, the loom shorted out and required repair. The voltmeter wire shows continuity to one of the hazard switch wires only ('69 car so this is an add on, not TR standard wiring), the voltmeter wire doesn't give a reading and is therefore useless, I only have hazards on the O/S, otherwise the loom works fine. Two - Checked thoroughly when it arrived, they had fitted the voltmeter wiring, however, despite emailed instructions, they had also fitted all three ammeter wires, they had also decided to fit the hazard relay wiring in a random position near the fusebox, the loom went back for alterations. On its return it fitted quite badly, the engine bay wiring was fine but the starter motor tail only just reached, measured against the first loom it was a few CM shorter, the brake light wires would never reach, in the effort to get it to fit I damaged the insulation leading to a short in an earth wire, this loom is going back for repair shortly. I have had a great response from Autosparks support, it is clear that they are really struggling with the volume of work however and the furloughing of staff isn't helping. I would also agree with the comments that the bulb holders are shocking poor, main warning ones falling out if you look at them too hard. I have also had a couple of bullets come off. Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted February 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 42 minutes ago, iani said: I have had two Autosparks TR6 looms in the last few months: One - Fitted well, however, they had fitted the voltmeter wiring as requested and deleted 2 of the 3 ammeter wires, for reasons best known to themselves they left one in the car, the loom shorted out and required repair. The voltmeter wire shows continuity to one of the hazard switch wires only ('69 car so this is an add on, not TR standard wiring), the voltmeter wire doesn't give a reading and is therefore useless, I only have hazards on the O/S, otherwise the loom works fine. Two - Checked thoroughly when it arrived, they had fitted the voltmeter wiring, however, despite emailed instructions, they had also fitted all three ammeter wires, they had also decided to fit the hazard relay wiring in a random position near the fusebox, the loom went back for alterations. On its return it fitted quite badly, the engine bay wiring was fine but the starter motor tail only just reached, measured against the first loom it was a few CM shorter, the brake light wires would never reach, in the effort to get it to fit I damaged the insulation leading to a short in an earth wire, this loom is going back for repair shortly. I have had a great response from Autosparks support, it is clear that they are really struggling with the volume of work however and the furloughing of staff isn't helping. I would also agree with the comments that the bulb holders are shocking poor, main warning ones falling out if you look at them too hard. I have also had a couple of bullets come off. Ian Hi Ian Not a vote of confidence for fit and forget and seems not the general experience of others. The wire is only ever as good as its terminations and it sounds like they are skimping and rushing to produce looms. Seriously don't know which way to jump as I'm sick of poor quality parts and was hoping a UK company was better than the Chinese quality maybe not. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, PodOne said: Hi Ian Not a vote of confidence for fit and forget and seems not the general experience of others. The wire is only ever as good as its terminations and it sounds like they are skimping and rushing to produce looms. Seriously don't know which way to jump as I'm sick of poor quality parts and was hoping a UK company was better than the Chinese quality maybe not. Andy My looms weren't standard, I'd had all the options fitted and a few extra gauge illumination wires. I strongly suspect a standard loom would be fine, in the case of my second loom the builder had ignored the custom drawing that had been made by their designer, I am sure it's just a pressure of work issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, PodOne said: Hi Ian Not a vote of confidence for fit and forget and seems not the general experience of others. The wire is only ever as good as its terminations and it sounds like they are skimping and rushing to produce looms. Seriously don't know which way to jump as I'm sick of poor quality parts and was hoping a UK company was better than the Chinese quality maybe not. Andy Andy As I posted make your own the wire and fittings are available online look for quality then a 8x4 plasterboard pin your old loom out the board let’s you make notes and take pictures before you start Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted February 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 20 minutes ago, ntc said: Andy As I posted make your own the wire and fittings are available online look for quality then a 8x4 plasterboard pin your old loom out the board let’s you make notes and take pictures before you start For the cost of a plasterboard might as well peg it out and go from there. Lets face it there is nothing else to do at the minute! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ed_h Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) Andy-- I would also encourage you to consider building a loom from scratch. I did this for my TR6, since I added a few additional devices that a stock loom would not have included. I was able to harvest quite a lot of wire from the original harness, but also had to buy some new wire. I stuck with the original color code, and had no trouble getting the colors I needed. I didn't use a "pin board" as many do, but just ran the wires in the car, tying them at critical points. Then took the cable out to wrap it and add terminals. One of the main advantages of a custom harness is that there is a lot of opportunity to make improvements. These add up to a much better, more reliable solution. Some more details if you decide you might have a go: http://bullfire.net/TR6/TR6-99/TR6-99.html Ed Edited February 8, 2021 by ed_h Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 One point I would make is dont reuse old sections of loom to save money. Often when you strip back the insulation you`ll find the wires are black and then very difficult to solder, theyve done their time and can fail plus unless you go over the whole thing with a magnifying glass you`ll never know if its chafed or burnt anywhere. However save your original bulb holders as they are usually a lot better quality and fit better too. Nowadays you can also get "Thinwall" wire which means you can get more wires that will carry the same current into the same given space, be generous with your wiring as you can see here a lot of complaints about the various sections being too short. Draw your loom out on paper over a large outline drawing of the car so you know where everything ends up and note its colour, Print out a wiring diagram from the workshop manual (bear in mind if you use the "Advance autowire" diagrams they are for US cars so TR5/6 ones are different) Standard Lucas colour charts are available to identify correct colours for each fitting. Incorporate plenty of earths as earth faults are always the biggest bugbear with vehicle wiring problems (Try wiring a Marcos with a fibreglass body and a wooden chassis!) I have used Autosparks for years for looms but they are obviously having QC problems now and their chief designer has retired on ill health grounds too so thats obviously no help, they do supply all the separate wires and connectors though so its still worth buying a bulk order of that. Its neater to use the proper loom tape for wrapping, takes a while but looks much better than insulating tape! Then heat shrink in sections where you can for the fly looms like headlamps and indicators also overdrive looms. Relay blocks that slot together can be hidden up under the dash so theyre not seen but for ease of change fit them on velcro strip with a little excess wire tails so you can pull them down to examine or change if required. If you putting extra fuse boxes in make sure the fuses are adequate and write inside the cover what each one does. Oh and those who questioned a blue wrapped loom, very early TR4 did indeed have a blue wrapped loom. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted February 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Thanks for the advice Stuart. The copper wire in my old loom has gone green/black and won't solder that's for sure hence the need to replace it. Ed I've read your project a few times and its great but above my capabilities/facilities to custom make a board! As ever a few more questions from those who have done this before. So just so I get off on the right foot I've copied this RHD 1969 CP diagram from the BB WSM can you confirm its the correct schematic? Presume this represents the "Standard Lucas Colour Charts" http://www.ovtc.net/uploads/9/5/1/6/9516577/wiring_colour_codes.pdf? Finally if I go down this route I will want to incorporate a few relays and separate fuses for each system/component so will need a larger fuse box any recommendations with regard to a suitable fuse/relay box(s) and would you use the OEM bullet connectors or resin encased spades? Relays for; - Fuel pump (Bosch) - Headlights (although these and all the light will be LED) so not sure I'd need to. - Electric Fan Any others? Thanks Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Your old loom is the best layout you have do as I suggested don’t rap it and then add on what you want, make note of what you have done then finish it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ed_h Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 4 hours ago, PodOne said: Ed I've read your project a few times and its great but above my capabilities/facilities to custom make a board! Understood, Andy. There is still great benefit to a custom harness with expanded use of fuses and relays. Are you familliar with carbuilder.com? They have a range of modularized fuse and relay blocks. Google British Standard BS-AU7, and you will get other versions of the wiring color codes (hopefully equivalent to the one you have). Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 Colour codes better explained here https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/cms/files/colour_code_for_vehicle_wiring_-_new_order_2.pdf Car Builder solutions are good for all sorts of stuff.https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/catalogue Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted February 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 Thanks Stuart and Ed for the pointers. Ive use Car Builders in the past looking at the modular fuse/relay boxes look like the way to go. Cheers Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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