Peter Cobbold Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, RobH said: More similar papers: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075838v1. (Vitamin D Insufficiency is Prevalent in Severe COVID-19) https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484. (Vitamin D Supplementation Could Possibly Improve Clinical Outcomes....) Quote from the first: Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI. Coagulopathy was present in 62.5% of ICU COVID-19 patients, and 92.3% were lymphocytopenic. Conclusions: VDI is highly prevalent in severe COVID-19 patients. The first paper defines VDinsufficiency as 25(OH) <30 ng/ml = 75 nmol/L Compare that with UK advice from NICE/SACN/PHE that 50 nmol/L is adequate Our advisoors advise a D3 level that is a risk level for COVID. However PHE accepts that up to 4000 IU pd is safe, and that will give us between 100 and 150 nM. Indonesia data ive just seen bears out the first of Rob's links, with same 75 nmol/L cutoff. So to date South USA, Indonesia and Philippines have got data collected, anlysed and pre-print publisshed Where is the UK ........?????????? Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 Two sets of data, from Indonesia and Philippines, show the same: if serum 25(OH)D3 is below 30 ng.ml = 75 nmol/L the risk of severe COVID is high. http://www.drdavidgrimes.com/2020/05/covid-19-vitamin-d-ethnicity-and.html UK supplement guidelines from PHE target an 'adequate' level of 20 ng/ml = 50 nmol/L . And that is what a multivit provides, no more. Eventually the central importance of D3 deficiency in the pandemic will be recognised, but before "eventually" comes many will die unecessarily. Very sad. So I hope I am forgiven for labouring the point. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuzanneH Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Peter Cobbold said: Two sets of data, from Indonesia and Philippines, show the same: if serum 25(OH)D3 is below 30 ng.ml = 75 nmol/L the risk of severe COVID is high. http://www.drdavidgrimes.com/2020/05/covid-19-vitamin-d-ethnicity-and.html UK supplement guidelines from PHE target an 'adequate' level of 20 ng/ml = 50 nmol/L . And that is what a multivit provides, no more. Eventually the central importance of D3 deficiency in the pandemic will be recognised, but before "eventually" comes many will die unecessarily. Very sad. So I hope I am forgiven for labouring the point. Peter Peter on this Covid19 tracker app, today for the first time they are asking for a very wide varieties of Ethnicities by skin colour. UCL or Kings College ???? Are doing the research here, perhaps contact them with your research on D3 and skin colour. It must be worth a try as they are definitely taking notice. Sue x Edited May 2, 2020 by SuzanneH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) Peter. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075838v1. n=20 . As they conclude.....warrants more greater numbers to validate. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484 Vitamin D supplementation could possibly improve clinical outcomes of patients infected with COVID-2019. Further research should conduct randomized controlled trials and large population studies to evaluate this recommendation. Their own conclusions. I respect your knowledge, but the data does not exist in a manner that convinces the medical fraternity. There are reasons to hope but until better data is available nothing more. Outrageously, the FDA have approved remdesivir for emergency use, https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-issues-emergency-use-authorization-potential-covid-19-treatment. On the basis of non significant results! I smell dollars here. Iain Edited May 2, 2020 by iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 and another article https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/preliminary-study-links-vitamin-d-deficiency-to-a-higher-mortality-rate-from-covid19/ Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, iain said: Peter. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075838v1. n=20 . As they conclude.....warrants more greater numbers to validate. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484 Vitamin D supplementation could possibly improve clinical outcomes of patients infected with COVID-2019. Further research should conduct randomized controlled trials and large population studies to evaluate this recommendation. Their own conclusions. I respect your knowledge, but the data does not exist in a manner that convinces the medical fraternity. There are reasons to hope but until better data is available nothing more. Outrageously, the FDA have approved remdesivir for emergency use, https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-issues-emergency-use-authorization-potential-covid-19-treatment. On the basis of non significant results! I smell dollars here. Iain Authors still in post have to behave or risk upsetting funding bodies and referees. Hence the caveats about more trials. Observational studies plus the known safty of D3 supplements, even to very high serum levels, is enough. We now suspect PHE and SAGE are well aware of D3 but dare not pronounce more than amultivit dose (400 IU) because supplies will run out. There are indication on Amazon of soem brands becoming NLA. To supplemtnt all UK at ca 2000 IU pd needs about 10-15% of global D3 supply. Lets hope Unilever chemists are already on the job of synthesising our own D3 risk/benefits are not solely for the medics to decide. The economic and societal stresses are rapidly building and add weight to the benefits. D3 adequacy provides an answer to removing the lcckdown before the onset of winter. Also the first nation to embrace D3 adequacy will gain a humungous advantege over thos still festering in lockdown. D3 will happen and I hope UK gets in first. Fingers crossed, we dont want to be amongst the also-rans Peter Edited May 2, 2020 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 Wow you are cynical Peter. The industry is biased, the scientists can’t write what they want, CMO CSA are just out of kindergarten, BAME activists are using this to show social inequality are just some of your recent statements. Come on, good science gets published in good journals and good data is incontrovertible. Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 5 hours ago, iain said: Wow you are cynical Peter. The industry is biased, the scientists can’t write what they want, CMO CSA are just out of kindergarten, BAME activists are using this to show social inequality are just some of your recent statements. Come on, good science gets published in good journals and good data is incontrovertible. Iain Iiain, There is a mountain of excellent science published on D3. But it gets lost when the ridiculously limited NICE protocol is used to try to define the correct serum level and hence dose. NICE, SACN and PHE make no reference whatosever to physiology in thier deliberations, treating the hormone D3 as if it were a drug. Of course I am cynical, but I am far from a lone voice. Excellent D3 science is lost upon NICE. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 23 hours ago, SuzanneH said: Peter on this Covid19 tracker app, today for the first time they are asking for a very wide varieties of Ethnicities by skin colour. UCL or Kings College ???? Are doing the research here, perhaps contact them with your research on D3 and skin colour. It must be worth a try as they are definitely taking notice. Sue x Hi Sue, I think thay are very concerned about the disproportionate BAME deaths and the tracker may be intended to try to find assocaitions with sciological influences. I doubt its anything to do with D3. However the excessive death rate amongst senior BAME clinicinas, it it continues, may start to appear in the app data. And start them looking for biological factors, in addition to deprivation, income etc I gather there is a 4nation group looking into D3 , and another into BAME deaths. Lets hope they compsre notes. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 (edited) The Covid symptom tracker app has found, by studying twins, that "roughly half of the difference in symptoms between people can be explained by underlying variations in their genes, while the rest is due to other factors such as amount of viral exposure (viral load), underlying health conditions, environment and lifestyle." Their request for the ethnicity of respondants will no doubt allow them to extend that. Their main interest will be "the ACE2 receptor - the molecular ‘gateway’ by which the coronavirus attaches and enters cells - and research is ongoing to investigate whether variations in this gene increase the risk of infection. Variations in other genes, particularly those involved in the immune response, are prime candidates as they will also affect the severity of the illness." They seem more impressed by that than D3. Perhaps the should be asking for A/ respondants' consumption of D3 and B/ their light exposure. John PS See: https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/genetics-covid Edited May 3, 2020 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 32 minutes ago, john.r.davies said: The Covid symptom tracker app has found, by studying twins, that "roughly half of the difference in symptoms between people can be explained by underlying variations in their genes, while the rest is due to other factors such as amount of viral exposure (viral load), underlying health conditions, environment and lifestyle." Their request for the ethnicity of respondants will no doubt allow them to extend that. Their main interest will be "the ACE2 receptor - the molecular ‘gateway’ by which the coronavirus attaches and enters cells - and research is ongoing to investigate whether variations in this gene increase the risk of infection. Variations in other genes, particularly those involved in the immune response, are prime candidates as they will also affect the severity of the illness." They seem more impressed by that than D3. Perhaps the should be asking for A/ respondants' consumption of D3 and B/ their light exposure. John PS See: https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/genetics-covid I wish................... Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 D3 rationed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuzanneH Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 (edited) I think it is VERY significant that D3 appears on Costco’s site alongside other Covid19 necessities ie hand wipes and sanitiser gel. It looks as though the message is getting through to someone. Edited May 3, 2020 by SuzanneH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 30 minutes ago, SuzanneH said: I think it is VERY significant that D3 appears on Costco’s site alongside other Covid19 necessities ie hand wipes and sanitiser gel. It looks as though the message is getting through to someone. A couple of weeks ago a colleague bought 300 to distribute to GPs. Now reationed to 2. I think the message has got through. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 https://web.musc.edu/about/leadership/institutional-offices/communications/pamr/news-releases/2020/musc-world-class-vitamin-d-research-team-to-study-connection-to-covid-19-prevention-and-treatment Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted May 4, 2020 Report Share Posted May 4, 2020 With all the fuss about D3 it would be a pity to overlook blood-thinning vitamin E which are probably much more relevant to the matter at hand - says my MD partner Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted May 4, 2020 Report Share Posted May 4, 2020 It's getting out there Peter. I think your group submission is mentioned here at the end of this Telegraph article picking up D3 deficiency. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/03/time-take-seriously-link-vitamin-d-deficiency-serious-covid/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rod1883 Posted May 4, 2020 Report Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) People are reacting it seems. I was checking the Healthspan website last night as I wanted to recommend the products we are taking to a friend, and saw that both the "Over 50" 2000iu D3 capsules and 1000iu "superstrength' D3 tablets are out of stock. Edited May 4, 2020 by Rod1883 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 4, 2020 Report Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, foster461 said: https://web.musc.edu/about/leadership/institutional-offices/communications/pamr/news-releases/2020/musc-world-class-vitamin-d-research-team-to-study-connection-to-covid-19-prevention-and-treatment Tks Stan, Hollis is a big name in D3 research, huge experience, he wont be embarking on a wild goose chase. Peter Edited May 4, 2020 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted May 4, 2020 Report Share Posted May 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said: It's getting out there Peter. I think your group submission is mentioned here at the end of this Telegraph article picking up D3 deficiency. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/03/time-take-seriously-link-vitamin-d-deficiency-serious-covid/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr Mick Richards Tks Mick, a friend sent me a samizdat copy to get around the paywall. Yes it was this: https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1548/rr-6 Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Green 54 Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 At last there seems to be some good news regarding the availability of COVID-19 PPE. I would like to know if anyone out there can tell me if I should go for the six cylinder option or the four? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rod1883 Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just watched the daily Press Conference with Raab and Professor Angela McLean. McClean was incredibly curt with a number of her answers - I wonder if there is something going on behind the scenes between her and Raab, or within SAGE, or perhaps she is just getting fed up with answering the same inane questions every day? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Rod1883 said: Just watched the daily Press Conference with Raab and Professor Angela McLean. McClean was incredibly curt with a number of her answers - I wonder if there is something going on behind the scenes between her and Raab, or within SAGE, or perhaps she is just getting fed up with answering the same inane questions every day? Maybe she was just having a bad day. But also, I guess it gets a bit monotonous having to put up that graph every day that compares death totals between countries, then getting asked by journalists why the UK is topping the European countries, then having to explain that international comparisons don't really make sense. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 Don't make sense? 29,427 deaths recorded across the UK - The latest total for Italy, previously the highest in Europe, now stands at 29,315. (BBC) And Italy are about two weeks ahead of us, so they have had time to count the corpses, while we still have to count the care home deaths. Why does that not make sense? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 Totals do not make sense. Deaths expressed as a percentage of the total population makes some sort of sense but still doesn't take into account differences in demographics/ ethnic background (vit D)/ etc. etc. Useful for scaremongering but not for much else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.