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FND 205F

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I sincerely hope it is not a 250 being passed off as an ORH drive TR5 and wont lnow until I get a response back from an online message I sent to the company advertising the sale via their website about an hour ago. I raised the question if it was a 250 and asked for the engine & chassis numbers and were they either CP or CD?

 

See below the bit from their selling notes;

 

This absolutely stunning Triumph was nut and bolt rebuilt in 2010 to concours standard using a new TR5 chassis and new panels as required.

 

We have all of the documents with the car including the current V5 showing the model recorded as a TR5. (What happens when you try to register a 250 with the DVLA, they dont recognise a 250 so call it a 5)

 

Also on file is a copy of the factory Heritage certificate that shows the car originally left the factory in December 1967 and was dispatched to Genser & Forman Inc of New York before returning home in 2008 to be prepared for the complete build and it was re-built to the correct TR5 specification, totally standard.

 

Will let you know what comes back, if it ever will.

 

Noticed the link not working in first post, this might work https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1009168

Edited by MikeThomas

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FND 205F Looks like a TR250 but advertised as a TR5! Used to ATR 5F I think....

 

Chassis Number CD 1762L and a CC Engine number with PI added....

 

Smells like a rat......very naughty behaviour IMHO

 

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1009168

The car currently using ATR5F is a genuine TR5, (unless the plate has been sold on) I haven't seen the ad as yet? so cannot comment.

 

The car came via TR GB, I bought it from Gary and sold it to another TR member some years ago.

 

Isn't it odd that from such a short number of PI cars made that there are so many of them (?) for sale.

Edited by pfenlon

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Thanks to a fellow member with a better memory than me, the car FND 205F was MY TR250 which I renovated and sold to A TR member and vendor Darn Sarf.

 

The car was a very good one and I fitted it with Magnesium wheels which looked the part, It was NOT a TR5. I fitted the PI stuff too.

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Edited by pfenlon

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And what can we do about it ?

 

Mick Richards

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Couldn't the Register approach the DVLA or Trading Standards with specific reference to this car?

Or the Police even?

Does the website have a history of this kind of shenanigans?

IANAL but it looks like fraud to me.

 

 

 

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And what can we do about it ?

 

 

If it is being advertised as a TR5 and it is not, then that is misrepresentation (or fraud if you prefer).

 

The fact that the seller is a trader and purports to have 30 years experience means that he would be held responsible / liable and could not claim that he didn't know IMO.

 

I agree that the Register should take the lead in liaising with law enforcement / DVLA / trading standards

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Just checked my email and got this message back from the seller.

 

Yes it was exported as a 250, it’s had a new chassis which is in the advert and DVLA have inspected the car and put it now as a TR5 which is in the logbook.

 

 

My reply this morning, polite but to the point.
Thank you for your email, the car is definitely a 250 and not an original Right Hand Drive 5 with matching CP numbers.
In my opinion it should be advertised as a 250/TR5.
I would be bitterly disappointed and seriously felt duped if I had purchased the car thinking it was a 5.

Just thought you should be aware as the eventual buyer might feel the same.

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I have since sent another email to the seller, see below. This could be a genuine mistake, solely relying on the logbook, lets see what comes back.

 

Dear Nicole
Trust you will find this informative.
TR250
A total of 8,484 TR250s were built for the U.S market.
TR5
A total of 1161 Triumph TR5s built in 1967-68, today circa 450 are on the road.
When a 250 is bought back to the UK and a V5 is applied for the DVLA do not recognise it as a 250 and changes it to a 5, mainly to ease on administration, therefore I trust you will note that it is not a 'true' Original Right Hand Drive UK 5, to say otherwise, because of the logbook, is in my view a misdemeanor.
In light of the information above you might wish to consider amending the selling notes and add 250/TR5

Mike Thomas

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This could be a genuine mistake

 

 

I hope you are right but I am perhaps a little cynical, especially given the following claim on their website:

 

"Specialising in importing and exporting vehicles to and from Europe, the United States and worldwide, we provide a knowledgeable ...."

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Thanks to a fellow member with a better memory than me, the car FND 205F was MY TR250 which I renovated and sold to A TR member and vendor Darn Sarf.

 

The car was a very good one and I fitted it with Magnesium wheels which looked the part, It was NOT a TR5. I fitted the PI stuff too.

I think that the real fraud is when the TR5 badges were fitted

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I Bought the car in Question from Larry in Maine, USA it was a shed, the body was shot to pieces with corrosion. see pic, the car was green.

 

The chassis was also finished it was rotten through and through, a new one was ordered and collected from CTM.

 

Another body shell was sourced from a San Diego scrap yard, via the firm "California connection" who were very helpful, the pic of the shell was in my earlier post.

 

I then renovated the 250, had it MOT'd and re registered at the DVLA as a Triumph TR250.

 

To say that they don't recognise the model and have to call it a TR5 is complete poppycock.

 

the wool is being pulled here, I do know that the 250 badge was replaced with a badge from a TR5, which I didn't agree with, but if an ego needs to be egged up????

 

Graham how did you get the number FND are you saying the car was yours, am I missing something here?

 

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Hi Pete

 

Are you saying that DVLA 'did' register the car FND 205F as a TR250 when it came back and not TR5, if so roughly what year would that have been as I understand they no longer do this, instead showing it as a 5 every time?

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Hi Pete

 

Are you saying that DVLA 'did' register the car FND 205F as a TR250 when it came back and not TR5, if so roughly what year would that have been as I understand they no longer do this, instead showing it as a 5 every time?

My Reply to you has been removed.

 

It was a true statement. I hope the moderator will explain the reason for the removal.

 

We are trying to prove a cars history here, and as it was my car..................................

 

The car was registered as a 250. this stuff that the DVLA won't recognise a 250 and call them all a TR5, I just don't understand.

 

AND I had the car inspected by the DVLA when the renovation was finished, another inspection, was either not done, or done to egg the car to a 5 status, the inspection was done at the DVLA in Old Trafford Manchester.

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Hello Pete

 

The fact that your post was removed by a moderator is a worry and makes me more suspicious.

 

Would you be happy sending me a pm re the post that was removed? I'm new to the TR club having purchased a real 5 from a solid and true gent TR member in Aug 17. I just don't want to see a new or current member with the club being hoodwinked into thinking he/she has got a true 5 at a bargain price.

 

The car looks a good runner and no doubt will give some one a lot of pleasure but you just cannot change the identity from a 250 to a 5 by making some alterations, after all it still has the same reg number. In my view the status of a UK ORH 5 has to be protected.

 

Best wishes,

Mike

Edited by MikeThomas

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I expect the only way to prove its identity is to check its com numbers with Roger Ferris who is the TR 5 Registrar.

 

CP xxx is TR5 CD xxx is TR250

 

Surely the buyer would check it out before coughing up nearly £ 43K

 

Rex

Edited by Rex Wyer

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I’ve read this with interest and having now registered several TR’s with DVLA I agree with Pete, when you complete the forms you have to declare the model, it’s nonsense to say the DVLA do not recognise TR250, they will put on the V5 what you have declared, ie TR250,

 

All of the 250,s registered buy us have been returned with V5,s marked “TR250”

 

 

Tom

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Thanks Tom that's really good to hear and get clarification on this from some one that has actually registered a few.

 

Best wishes,

Mike

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I expect the only way to prove its identity is to check its com numbers with Roger Ferris who is the TR 5 Registrar.

 

CP xxx is TR5 CD xxx is TR250

 

Surely the buyer would check it out before coughing up nearly £ 43K

 

Rex

 

The chassis number is CD 1762 L

 

I rest my case your honour........

 

Do you think the advert might be leaning towards a TR5 because they are worth considerably more than a TR250!!!

 

Money is the route of all evil..... :ph34r:

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Just a personal opinion of course, but In a TR 250 you are pretty certain that it will get you there, maybe a little slower than the 5.

 

But with a TR5 you can't ever be sure of getting there at all.

 

Have I shown you my new TR 250 bought from Georgia early this morning. (Somebody has to save em)

 

 

 

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Looks an excellent buy Peter, how did you get the drops on that one ? I look forward to your rework and photos of the tub repairs ( if needed).

 

Mick Richards

Edited by Motorsport Mickey

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