Jump to content


Photo

FND 205F

tr250 tr5

  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#1 HPMUIRT

HPMUIRT
  • TR Register Members
  • 33 posts

Posted 28 June 2018 - 02:22 PM

FND 205F Looks like a TR250 but advertised as a TR5! Used to ATR 5F I think....

 

Chassis Number CD 1762L and a CC Engine number with PI added....

 

Smells like a rat......very naughty behaviour IMHO 

 

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1009168 


Edited by HPMUIRT, 28 June 2018 - 02:40 PM.

  • 0

#2 MikeThomas

MikeThomas
  • TR Register Members
  • 56 posts
  • Location:Essex
  • Cars Owned::Current TR5 ORH Roadster 1968
    Previously owned:
    Triumph Vitesse THX 132F
    Triumph Herald SGT 717F

Posted 28 June 2018 - 02:42 PM

I sincerely hope it is not a 250 being passed off as an ORH drive TR5 and wont lnow until I get a response back from an online message I sent to the company advertising the sale via their website about an hour ago. I raised the question if it was a 250 and asked for the engine & chassis numbers and were they either CP or CD?

 

See below the bit from their selling notes;

 

This absolutely stunning Triumph was nut and bolt rebuilt in 2010 to concours standard using a new TR5 chassis and new panels as required.

 

We have all of the documents with the car including the current V5 showing the model recorded as a TR5. (What happens when you try to register a 250 with the DVLA, they dont recognise a 250 so call it a 5)

 

Also on file is a copy of the factory Heritage certificate that shows the car originally left the factory in December 1967 and was dispatched to Genser & Forman Inc of New York before returning home in 2008 to be prepared for the complete build and it was re-built to the correct TR5 specification, totally standard.

 

Will let you know what comes back, if it ever will.

 

Noticed the link not working in first post, this might work https://www.carandcl...uk/car/C1009168


Edited by MikeThomas, 28 June 2018 - 03:10 PM.

  • 0

Mike :)


#3 YankeeTR5

YankeeTR5
  • Registered User
  • 189 posts

Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:53 PM

That is the cheesiest advert I've seen claiming a 250 is a 5 without directly saying it.   What people will do for a buck....


  • 0

#4 pfenlon

pfenlon

    Pete Fen

  • TR Register Members
  • 7,861 posts
  • Location:Manchester

Posted 28 June 2018 - 06:35 PM

FND 205F Looks like a TR250 but advertised as a TR5! Used to ATR 5F I think....

 

Chassis Number CD 1762L and a CC Engine number with PI added....

 

Smells like a rat......very naughty behaviour IMHO 

 

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1009168 

The car currently using ATR5F is a genuine TR5, (unless the plate has been sold on) I haven't seen the ad as yet? so cannot comment.

 

The car came via TR GB, I bought it from Gary and sold it to another TR member some years ago.

 

Isn't it odd that from such a short number of PI cars made that there are so many of them (?) for sale.


Edited by pfenlon, 28 June 2018 - 06:41 PM.

  • 0

#5 pfenlon

pfenlon

    Pete Fen

  • TR Register Members
  • 7,861 posts
  • Location:Manchester

Posted 28 June 2018 - 06:56 PM

Thanks to a fellow member with a better memory than me, the car FND 205F was MY TR250 which I renovated and sold to A TR member and vendor Darn Sarf.

 

The car was a very good one and I fitted it with Magnesium wheels which looked the part,  It was NOT a TR5. I fitted the PI stuff too.

Attached Files


Edited by pfenlon, 28 June 2018 - 06:56 PM.

  • 0

#6 tr graham

tr graham
  • TR Register Members
  • 223 posts
  • Location:Norfolk
  • Cars Owned::V765 officer

Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:03 PM

The FND registration and V5 allocated to the TR250 i rebuilt listed the car as a TR250 not a tr5
  • 0

#7 RogerH

RogerH
  • TR Register Members
  • 21,830 posts
  • Location:West London

Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:06 PM

Somebody is being a bit naughty.

 

Roger


  • 0
Time is a drug - Too much will kill you
Forgive your enemy, but remember the ass-hole's name.
never surrender, never give up and always balance your butterflies

Veni Vidi Flati
TR4A - July 1967 daily driver         2010 RBRR No.22  2014 RBRR No.69
TR4 - March 1962 transforming like the proverbial caterpillar - it's now Royal Blue and now with the chromy bits.
 
 
 
 
 

#8 Motorsport Mickey

Motorsport Mickey
  • TR Register Members
  • 3,840 posts
  • Location:Nottinghamshire
  • Cars Owned::Enjoying my cars, TR 4 and Triumph Stag, Caravanning...oh yes,
    Building race engines and developing interesting developments of them, and all engineering achievments,
    Cars owned TR3a, now gone
    TR4 Racer, now sold
    TR7V8 Racer, now sold
    TR4 just entering full rebuild

Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:26 PM

And what can we do about it ?

Mick Richards
  • 0

#9 tr graham

tr graham
  • TR Register Members
  • 223 posts
  • Location:Norfolk
  • Cars Owned::V765 officer

Posted 28 June 2018 - 08:06 PM

Not a lot
  • 0

#10 spyder dryver

spyder dryver
  • Registered User
  • 18 posts
  • Location:Sherwood Forest
  • Cars Owned::Spyder Silverstone
    Stuart Taylor Phoenix Fireblade

Posted 28 June 2018 - 08:25 PM

Couldn't the Register approach the DVLA or Trading Standards with specific reference to this car?

Or the Police even? 

Does the website have a history of this kind of shenanigans?

IANAL but it looks like fraud to me.

 

 

 


  • 0

#11 Hawk

Hawk
  • TR Register Members
  • 105 posts
  • Location:Cotswolds
  • Cars Owned::1974 TR6 PI

Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:54 AM

And what can we do about it ?
 

 

If it is being advertised as a TR5 and it is not, then that is misrepresentation (or fraud if you prefer).

 

The fact that the seller is a trader and purports to have 30 years experience means that he would be held responsible / liable and could not claim that he didn't know IMO.

 

I agree that the Register should take the lead in liaising with law enforcement / DVLA / trading standards


  • 0

#12 MikeThomas

MikeThomas
  • TR Register Members
  • 56 posts
  • Location:Essex
  • Cars Owned::Current TR5 ORH Roadster 1968
    Previously owned:
    Triumph Vitesse THX 132F
    Triumph Herald SGT 717F

Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:45 AM

Just checked my email and got this message back from the seller.

 

Yes it was exported as a 250, it’s had a new chassis which is in the advert and DVLA have inspected the car and put it now as a TR5 which is in the logbook.

 

 

My reply this morning, polite but to the point.
 
Thank you for your email, the car is definitely a 250 and not an original Right Hand Drive 5 with matching CP numbers.
 
In my opinion it should be advertised as a 250/TR5.
 
I would be bitterly disappointed and seriously felt duped  if I had purchased the car thinking it was a 5.
 

Just thought you should be aware as the eventual buyer might feel the same.


  • 0

Mike :)


#13 MikeThomas

MikeThomas
  • TR Register Members
  • 56 posts
  • Location:Essex
  • Cars Owned::Current TR5 ORH Roadster 1968
    Previously owned:
    Triumph Vitesse THX 132F
    Triumph Herald SGT 717F

Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:30 AM

I have since sent another email to the seller, see below. This could be a genuine mistake, solely relying on the logbook, lets see what comes back.

 

Dear Nicole
 
Trust you will find this informative.
 
TR250
A total of 8,484 TR250s were built for the U.S market.
 
TR5
A total of 1161 Triumph TR5s built in 1967-68, today circa 450 are on the road.
 
When a 250 is bought back to the UK and a V5 is applied for the DVLA do not recognise it as a 250 and changes it to a 5, mainly to ease on administration, therefore I trust you will note that it is not a 'true' Original Right Hand Drive UK 5, to say otherwise, because of the logbook, is in my view a misdemeanor.
 
In light of the information above you might wish to consider amending the selling notes and add 250/TR5
 

Mike Thomas


  • 0

Mike :)


#14 Hawk

Hawk
  • TR Register Members
  • 105 posts
  • Location:Cotswolds
  • Cars Owned::1974 TR6 PI

Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:37 AM

This could be a genuine mistake

 

 

I hope you are right but I am perhaps a little cynical, especially given the following claim on their website: 

 

"Specialising in importing and exporting vehicles to and from Europe, the United States and worldwide, we provide a knowledgeable ...."


  • 0

#15 roy53

roy53
  • TR Register Members
  • 1,128 posts
  • Location:Leigh on sea Essex

Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:45 AM

Thanks to a fellow member with a better memory than me, the car FND 205F was MY TR250 which I renovated and sold to A TR member and vendor Darn Sarf.

 

The car was a very good one and I fitted it with Magnesium wheels which looked the part,  It was NOT a TR5. I fitted the PI stuff too.

I think that the real fraud is when the TR5 badges were fitted


  • 0

#16 pfenlon

pfenlon

    Pete Fen

  • TR Register Members
  • 7,861 posts
  • Location:Manchester

Posted 29 June 2018 - 01:45 PM

I Bought the car in Question from Larry in Maine, USA it was a shed, the body was shot to pieces with corrosion. see pic, the car was green.

 

The chassis was also finished it was rotten through and through, a new one was ordered and collected from CTM.

 

Another body shell was sourced from a San Diego scrap yard, via the firm "California connection" who were very helpful, the pic of the shell was in my earlier post.

 

I then renovated the 250, had it MOT'd and re registered at the DVLA as a Triumph TR250.

 

To say that they don't recognise the model and have to call it a TR5 is complete poppycock.

 

the wool is being pulled here, I do know that the 250 badge was replaced with a badge from a TR5, which I didn't agree with, but if an ego needs to be egged up????

 

Graham how did you get the number FND are you saying the car was yours, am I missing something here?

 

Attached Files


  • 0

#17 MikeThomas

MikeThomas
  • TR Register Members
  • 56 posts
  • Location:Essex
  • Cars Owned::Current TR5 ORH Roadster 1968
    Previously owned:
    Triumph Vitesse THX 132F
    Triumph Herald SGT 717F

Posted 29 June 2018 - 02:05 PM

Hi Pete

 

Are you saying that DVLA 'did' register the car FND 205F as a TR250 when it came back and not TR5, if so roughly what year would that have been as I understand they no longer do this, instead showing it as a 5 every time?


  • 0

Mike :)


#18 pfenlon

pfenlon

    Pete Fen

  • TR Register Members
  • 7,861 posts
  • Location:Manchester

Posted 29 June 2018 - 05:06 PM

Hi Pete

 

Are you saying that DVLA 'did' register the car FND 205F as a TR250 when it came back and not TR5, if so roughly what year would that have been as I understand they no longer do this, instead showing it as a 5 every time?

My Reply to you has been removed.

 

It was a true statement. I hope the moderator will explain the reason for the removal.

 

We are trying to prove a cars history here, and as it was my car..................................

 

The car was registered as a 250. this stuff that the DVLA won't recognise a 250 and call them all a TR5, I just don't understand.

 

AND I had the car inspected by the DVLA when the renovation was finished, another inspection, was either not done, or done to egg the car to a 5 status, the inspection was done at the DVLA in Old Trafford Manchester.


  • 0

#19 MikeThomas

MikeThomas
  • TR Register Members
  • 56 posts
  • Location:Essex
  • Cars Owned::Current TR5 ORH Roadster 1968
    Previously owned:
    Triumph Vitesse THX 132F
    Triumph Herald SGT 717F

Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:07 PM

Hello Pete

 

The fact that your post was removed by a moderator is a worry and makes me more suspicious.

 

Would you be happy sending me a pm re the post that was removed? I'm new to the TR club having purchased a real 5 from a solid and true gent TR member in Aug 17. I just don't want to see a new or current member with the club being hoodwinked into thinking he/she has got a true 5 at a bargain price.

 

The car looks a good runner and no doubt will give some one a lot of pleasure but you just cannot change the identity from a 250 to a 5 by making some alterations, after all it still has the same reg number. In my view the status of a UK ORH 5 has to be protected.

 

Best wishes,

Mike


Edited by MikeThomas, 29 June 2018 - 08:09 PM.

  • 0

Mike :)


#20 Rex Wyer

Rex Wyer
  • TR Register Members
  • 830 posts
  • Location:Nottingham
  • Cars Owned::TR,s sailing, golf

Posted 30 June 2018 - 05:36 AM

I expect the only way to prove its identity is to check its com numbers with Roger Ferris who is the TR 5  Registrar.

 

CP xxx is TR5  CD xxx is TR250

 

Surely the buyer would check it out before coughing up  nearly £ 43K

 

Rex


Edited by Rex Wyer, 30 June 2018 - 05:38 AM.

  • 0

TR6 CF37700U in restoration

TR6 CC84028U in restoration
Nottingham






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: tr250, tr5

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users