james christie Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 During a short visit to blighty this week, in preparation for the spring oil change on my 3A, I was unable to track down any Millers Classic oil which I have been using for a few years now - loads of stockists but nobody.......stocks it. Short of time, I ended up buying some Comma Classic 20/50. Anybody got anything unpleasant to say about this stuff? I do 3-5000km a year James Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I used it for many a year in both engine and gear box of sidescreen cars. But that was years ago and no doubt the spec may have changed. I always add a measure of ZDDP to the engine oil & filter change. Go into Auchan, They do a 20/50 that I have used in recent years. Not as good oil consumption or pressure maintaining as the Millers but it does the job. Alec should be along in a moment with SPI specs Here is a minefield for reading. http://www.opieoils.co.uk/showcategory.aspx?categoryid=789&SEName=acea& This whole topic has been done before. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Hi James, the Comma Classic would not be far different to the many other classic oils. It is highly likely that Comma would have made most of the other classic oils. Here is the spec sheet file:///C:/Users/Roger/Downloads/11759.pdf it doesn't mention ZDDP but there is Zinc and other constituents that may add together to make it work. Why not contact them? Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 From what I have read, the Comma is slightly below the ideal ZDD content 10-12 v 14-15 ? Isn't Halfods Classic Comma re-branded ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MostEasterlySteve Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Comma is the same as Halfords. Low in ZDDP - 700 ppm I believe. Castrol Classic is about 800 ppm. Really you should aim for a bit more, maybe 1000 - 1400 (max). Edited January 19, 2017 by MostEasterlySteve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 On the subject of ZDDP. Is it RPM dependant. For instance, would driving with a max rpm of 3500 or there abouts require the higher concentration of the additive. Or would the lower level of 700/800 be adequate. I've used the Halfords product for many years with very little wear in the cam/follower department. This Summer I used Penrite 20/50 and after apprx 2000 miles I had a follower that was knackered. This does not mean that the Penrite oil was duff because I still used the lowish rpm. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveR Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I use Castrol Classic 20/50 in the TR7 and the Vitesse because it's said to have a higher zinc content. As interest I bought a new Toledo back in 1973 and fitted an oil pressure gauge. The service oil change was at 6,000 miles or one year. But at every 3,500 miles the oil pressure stated to reduce. The reduction then increased with mileage. So I used to change the oil every 3,000 Miles. The engine did 125,000 mile before the bearings needed changing. The oil was that recommended by Triumph at the time. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanG Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I used Comma 20/50 for a couple of years but thought the oil pressure dropped off a bit to much on fast motorway runs. Presumably temp related. Changed to Penrite 20/60 with a definite improvement. Alan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I have used it for years and many miles never had an issue , yes it is Halfords. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MostEasterlySteve Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I use Castrol Classic 20/50 in the TR7 and the Vitesse because it's said to have a higher zinc content. The zinc content of Castrol Classic 20W/50 was reduced a few years ago from just over 1000 ppm to about 800 ppm. This lower content (800) has been confirmed to me in writing by a technical advisor at Castrol Classic Lubricants. Castrol is of the opinion that 800 ppm is probably enough for all normal circumstances and they also feel that very much higher levels can cause corrosion in a less frequently used engine. All that said I feel a happy place to be zinc-wise is 1000 - 1400. There are better choices than Castrol Classic in my opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I've used all sorts of Comma products for decades, and yet to find a problem with any of their range . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Cairns Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 The zinc content of Castrol Classic 20W/50 was reduced a few years ago from just over 1000 ppm to about 800 ppm. This lower content (800) has been confirmed to me in writing by a technical advisor at Castrol Classic Lubricants. Castrol is of the opinion that 800 ppm is probably enough for all normal circumstances and they also feel that very much higher levels can cause corrosion in a less frequently used engine. All that said I feel a happy place to be zinc-wise is 1000 - 1400. There are better choices than Castrol Classic in my opinion. Steve You have me confused here Castrol and Comma etc are using say 700 ppm to 800 ppm. You say 1000ppm to 1400ppm is a "happy place to be zinc-wise". I have no opinion either way as I am not a professional lube specialist but an engineer that expects recommendations to be backed up with measured results from if possible labs who are not backed by one oil company or another. Can you provide published test links under controlled conditions to back up your comments as I would like to see the results that convince you to want these raised levels compared to what the UK lube oil companies provide? As far as I know ZDDP is a very inexpensive additive for an oil blender to add to their mix. It may well be that the products that have a higher PPM of ZDDP do indeed cause other problems as you say Castrol advise or they improve the engine wear properties of that particular oil as you are inferring. I would love to see the back up to your publicised opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) From what I've read there are several types of ZDDP ( and ZDTP ) and there is also interaction between detergents in the oil and the zincphosphate-complex cushion that is deposited on rubbing surfaces. So zinc concentration alone may not be a reliable guide to whether the oil will do the job or not. Wear testing needs a tribology lab so really we have little option but to trust the oil companies to supply oil fit for flat tappet engines. An oil specified for classics should do that. However, switching between such oils might not be a good idea, because a manufacturer's lab will only test its own oils and doesnt embrace switching. Thus: if a low-ZDDP oil has less dispersant activity, to help preserve the cushion, then switiching to an oil with greater dispersant ( and more ZDDP) might strip the cushion and leave the engine vulnerable until it has rebuilt the cushions. If a lower-ZDDP oil has boron as an additional anti-scuff additive I'd be particularly wary, the boron mght strip the cushion. Likewise I would not switch to a diesel oil ( they have high ZDDP) because their detergent activity is greater than petrol oils. Its a minefield, but at least we know TRs need ZDDP and that oils for modern oils for cars with catalytic convertors lack sufficient ZDDP. Oh for the happy days of Duckham's green 20/50, in a proper tin can. Peter Edited January 20, 2017 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 For anyone that bothered about ZDDP, Comma X-Flow Type MOT 20W-50 offers 1100 rather than 800ppm . . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MostEasterlySteve Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Steve You have me confused here Castrol and Comma etc are using say 700 ppm to 800 ppm. You say 1000ppm to 1400ppm is a "happy place to be zinc-wise". Can you provide published test links under controlled conditions to back up your comments as I would like to see the results that convince you to want these raised levels compared to what the UK lube oil companies provide? I'm not advocating "raised levels". The levels I am referring to are typical in oils marketed for classic engines. It just so happens Castrol and Comma (incl Halfords) and Morris (Golden Film 20W/50) are very much on the low side and actually are therefore untypical. Most of the rest (Millers, Penrite, Valvoline, Gulf, Qualube etc) seem to hit levels of between 1000 - 1400. I assume there's a good reason for this and I further assume it is to do with the protection zinc compounds provide to the flat tappet/camshaft interface in many older engines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm Tatton Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Had been using this (Comma Sonic 20w50) http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/29100-comma-sonic-engine-oil/ but it appears that it is no longer available. Edited January 21, 2017 by Malcolm T Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Cairns Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I'm not advocating "raised levels". The levels I am referring to are typical in oils marketed for classic engines. It just so happens Castrol and Comma (incl Halfords) and Morris (Golden Film 20W/50) are very much on the low side and actually are therefore untypical. Most of the rest (Millers, Penrite, Valvoline, Gulf, Qualube etc) seem to hit levels of between 1000 - 1400. I assume there's a good reason for this and I further assume it is to do with the protection zinc compounds provide to the flat tappet/camshaft interface in many older engines. Sorry Steve you were saying that in your first post to quote you. "Really you should aim for a bit more, maybe 1000 - 1400 (max)." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Kirk Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Hi, I have been following this thread with interest. I have been using Silkolene , Silkolube 20W-50 oil for a few years now and been happy with the oil pressure etc. Appreciate any comments about this product versus the other oils mentioned. Cheers Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Hi, I have been following this thread with interest. I have been using Silkolene , Silkolube 20W-50 oil for a few years now and been happy with the oil pressure etc. Appreciate any comments about this product versus the other oils mentioned. Cheers Phil Phil, Looks fine to me, ZDDP at 1100ppm, I'd stick with it. Too little ZDDP wont affect oil pressure, it protects the rings and flat tappets from 'scuffing' wear. https://www.classic-oils.net/Silkolene-Silkolube-20W50 Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Kirk Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Thanks Peter Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MostEasterlySteve Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 The only source of info on Silkolube 20W/50's level of ZDDP I have ever found is on the Classic Oils website. They quote 1100 ppm. That figure is not attainable anywhere else, so, being the suspicious sort that I am, I rang Fuchs (maker of Silkolube). The reason being that Silkolube was in my sump at the time!... I spoke to their technical manager after the first technical assistant refused to give me the ZDDP content, saying they would never reveal proprietary formulation information. The manager asked the reason for my interest and I explained and stated that I wanted to be sure that the oil had around 1100 ppm of ZDDP in it (as quoted by Classic Oils). He did not confirm the number but he went through their product data information and he said to me "no, it's far lower than that". He then recommended a Fuchs 20W/50 motor cycle oil to me, saying it had much higher levels of ZDDP. I can only conclude as a result of that conversation that Silkolube has "far lower" than 1100 ppm ZDDP. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) I wonder what a Silkolene distributor would say to Fuch's information? Fuchs might be trying to cut them out, sell direct? I would beware of using a motorcycle oil in a TR - the temperatures are much lower water-cooled and ZDDP activation is temperature dependent. Maybe TRR needs to have a 20/50 oil Zn or P level measured and we all buy that. Peter Edited January 23, 2017 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joni Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 I have over the years worked in and around local garages & breakers yards, & interest through owning a classic car [HB GT] seen that Comma oils were/are often sitting at the back of the workshops in 50 gal drums, Comma have for as long as I can remember been trade suppliers to workshops & transport depots. I use Comma 20w 50 & back in the day used own brand oils eg Halfords Tesco Wilco etc, [probably re-labled Comma!]. my Viva manual tells me to change the oil every 3 months or 3000 miles! with better standards for oils these days I do it yearly, seldom do more than 2-3000 miles anyway, old engines are cast/forged iron & whitemetal bearings, they wear out & were easy & cheap to replace Diy or by the local garage! no reprogramming needed . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 A reasonable priced (compared to some like Millers) 20/50 with good ZDDP is Classic Oils of Bicester with their Heritage 20/50. I started using this around a couple of years ago with no problems, good pressure etc because the previous Millers 20/50 was getting too expensive. Classic Oils seem to be a good friendly Company, Guy Lachlan is a helpful guy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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