Lebro Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Today I took my '3 into a trusted service station to get my new camber angles checked, tracking adjusted (but only if camber did not need further fettling), & while there to get it MOT'd. (1st MOT since 2013 re-build) MOT came first, I sat in the car & did what I was told, lights on/off, indicators, brakes, steering etc. Tester found a bit of grease on LH disc, which explained the slight pulling to the right I had experienced on the way there, he cleaned it off, & we had a good look at the track rod end which was just a bit too close to the disc (on full rebound - wheels dangling at this point.) I have just finished a longish excercise of fitting 3° castor trunnions, late upper wishbones, adjustable top fulcrum, & steering geometry kit. ( this last bit of kit places the outer track rod ball joint basically as close to the disk as it will go without touching.) We agreed that I would see to fixing that ASAP. Brakes were then tested on the rollers - all 100% Tester said that it all looked very solid, & there was no point adding any advisories, as he knew I would wish to get everything right for my own sake. Interestingly he did not check: Headlamp aim Horn Wipers Washers Seat belts So got the MOT cert, now for the other checks, drove it onto the ramps used for alignment, they have a very fancy laser based system, reflectors on all 4 wheels, & a bar suspended in front of the car which fires lasers at the reflectors & measures what comes back. Anyway, It came back with cambers rather more -ve than I had wished - 1.24°, & -1.48° I had been aiming for -1° Toe in was pretty much OK, but no point adjusting if I was going to be playing with camber again. Got home & studied the printout. The machine also measures camber on the rear wheels, & being a solid axle car you would expect them to come out pretty close to 0°. well they did not. one was about 3.5° negative, & the other was about 1.5° positive - indicating that the car was not on a level surface, & that the accuracy of this system could be questionable. There is no provision for turning the wheels to take out any wheel distortion, it just assumes you have perfect wheels. Anyway back home I re-measured my camber angles using my "calibrated" spirit level, and the angles were now greater than the 1° I had set, I would assume that the 10 mile drive to the garage had "settled" things down. So I shall now start again, & perhaps this time use my own results, which I will spend a lot more time & effort on to make sure everything is right. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stevecross Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Bob Your experience of the testing procedure is pretty much the same as mine. Like you I employ a digital laser level, tape measure , marks on the garage wall & a plum bob etc. etc. when setting up my newly restored cars and have found that after professional checking I am as close as I need to be. I restore about 1 -2 cars a year and have been using my local country garage for the last 20 years. My problem is that as soon as the car goes up on the ramp the tester briefly looks underneath and says "I obviously don't have to check any of this" I then go through the same argument and explain that for the last 6 months I have taken this apart, put it all back together and may have become" blind" to some errors so please do a proper and full test. I have also argued with them when they came out in support of the pre 60's no MOT rule. I have tried to explain just how risky that is as a lot of these cars come out for 3 months and then go back into storage. I point out that things like rubber components degrade without wear but his point that owners of old cars cherish them so they must be ok! Good luck for the coming spring Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dpb Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Seems like a pretty good day to me Bob. I spent mine babysitting a 1-year old. No car work today. Dave ==== Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 My Mot tester makes me stand outside or in the observation bay - very clear that I an NOT allowed to be present whilst he tests stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldtuckunder Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 My Mot tester makes me stand outside or in the observation bay - very clear that I an NOT allowed to be present whilst he tests stuff. BO? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanG Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Mine makes me sit in the car and do the brake testing because he says he's to tall to get in. He also understands the fly off hand brake Alan. Edited March 9, 2016 by AlanG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Interesting information. Our "state" went from annual 'over the pits' check to no checks other than roadside spot checks, (must save a lot of money). Compulsory pit check for first time rego in the ACT. nearby state has inspection done annually by 'registered' private garages. obviously a lower standard of general car safety, but haven't seen figures indicating that disaster has resulted, despite my predictions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 We don't have annual inspections here in BC, Canada and we don't seem to have any worse accident statistics than the UK. Occasionally I see a car that makes me think is not safe for the road, but very rare. Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Graeme You don´t have 10% of the cars on the road in B.C. as in U.K. and of course their constant rain. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Getting back to the main point of this topic, I was appalled at the apparent inaccuracy of this state of the art alignment kit. Have now made my own camber gauge, using an accurate spirit level, with hinged straight edge, and a sliding spacer. Calibrated (using geometry) to show positions of the sliding spacer for 1° to 1.5° in 0.1° steps. The main challenge now it to find a level surface on which to do the checks. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lynchpin Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Hi Surely the piece of kit should be set up level with the ramp which will then always have a "level" playing field. where as anything else relies on the floor being level. A friend ours runs his own garage which has a 4 wheel tracking system set up on a ramp we have had moderns checked on it but not my 4. Phil.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yes, One would have hoped so ! Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I had my Volvo checked on one of those ramp based ones a while ago and bear in mind that too has a solid rear axle their data also showed differing amounts of toe in on the rear wheels! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted April 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 All current work now completed on my '3 Adjustable upper fulcrum set, welded, painted & refitted. (went for -0.6° camber) 3° trunnions fitted, with bottom plates soldered up to avoid grease seepage Steering geometry kit fitted, & tracking set at 0.35° toe in (per wheel) Sprung loaded peg steering box lid fitted. Adjustments all done using home made kit - adjustable & calibrated spirit level for camber, & carefully setup laser pen strapped to straight edge for tracking. Drives well no detectable bump steer, & it seems to want to go around corners now rather than fighting back ! Not going to get measurements checked at "posh garage" as I have no faith in the new fangled equipment (see entries above) Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 You are right. Electronic trash is only as good as the operator setting it up. It's unnecessarily complex, there is more to set up hence more room for error. I had my Zafira tracking set by one at a tyre depot and started scrubbing the tyres out! When we used to race on the ovals we just used a parallel bar on front and back of rim and set it square, not on the extreme edge of the rim, but the next step in to avoid kerbing damage inaccuracies, then just tweaked in a touch of toe out to make it turn in, or on a road car toe in. Worked every time as nothing to go wrong. Costs about 5 quid in metal and a mig. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 (edited) Bob not sure if same would apply to TR back axles but when I built my 'Locost' http://www.750mc.co.uk/formulae/locost.htmthe chap that supplied the kit and modified the back axle to take the new suspension mounting points commented on how 'good' the axle casing I supplied him was, he said that it wasn't unusual for them to have twisted/bent over the years and he did have a jig to straighten them. ATB Graham Edited April 6, 2016 by Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted April 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Fair comment, but I did subsequently check the camber of my rear wheels using my (home made - but good) camber gauge with car on a (checked to be) level surface, and they both came out 0°, so I am sure that the laser equipment was not setup correctly. How common that is I can't say, but it made me think that going back to basics was the best way to do it. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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