Wayward steering

[Mike K]

I find that occasionally my 1971 TR6 will suddenly change direction and I have to grab the steering away from the hedge - which is somewhat spoiling my enjoyment of the car!

 

I think this is the car wanting to track along imperfections in the road surface and I’m blaming the 205/60R15 tyres that were on that car when I bought it being too wide, so I’m planning to get back to a narrower tyre shortly (and also because some of the rubber is way too old). That will also hopefully help with the very heavy steering at slow speeds

 

Hopefully this will improve things. If it doesn’t, then I have in mind changing the steering bushes (I read that poly bushes are the way to go) and then maybe get a ‘quick steering rack’ fitted.

 

Anyone out there experience something similar? Am I looking in the right direction? Anything simple or (ideally!) inexpensive that I can try?

 

Comments appreciated. Many thanks.

 

Mike.

[Nick Jones]

The tyres could well be a factor, but you should also get the wheel alignment checked after first checking over all bushes, balljoints and trunnions.

 

Nick

[barkerwilliams]

Mike,

 

If bushes and rack are good is your tracking is really out? When driving in a straight line both front tyres will be slipping (and wearing) a little, when the car takes a slight bend more weight goes onto the outside tyre and less onto the inside tyre. The outside tyre's grip will become dominant and the car will follow that line , the inside tyre will slip more. Probably only a degree or four but noticeable. Hard suspension on potholed, gravelled roads can also lead to tyres having sporadic grip as the tyres fail to follow the roads surface consistently.

 

Alan

[Andrew Smith]

If it's the same direction every time when you're tram-lining then check the tyre pressures.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Peter Cobbold]

Mike,

Steering rack not clamped tight ?

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/55439-safety-warning/?hl=%20steering%20%20rack

Avoid the quick rack - the one I fitted has much reduced lock-to-lock.

Solid rack mounts that clamp properly are I reckon the most cost-effective handling improvement.

Peter

Edited March 6, 2016 by Peter Cobbold

[simonjrwinter]

You've checked all the joints in the suspension/steering first?

 

Simon

[RogerH]

Hi Mike,

most TR6's have all metal spline'd UJ on the steering column which works well.

The TR4/A has the rubber UJ where the spline does not clamp correctly dues to the spline pinch bolt not being allowed to do its job.

 

If the clamps are loose then you may get steering drift.

 

Roger

[john.r.davies]

Don't forget rear axle's contribution to steering.

I don't know TR6 rear axles, but they do allow toe adjustment, and my small chassis car was very wayward when the rear toe was out.

 

John

[Tom Fremont]

Solid rack mounts are a pet peeve of mine.

 

Properly compressed originals give crisp steering response with no lost motion and provide shock absorption which protects the rack and pinion teeth.

 

Compressing these seems to be an all-but-lost art. With an assistant nothing fancier than a Vice [ Mole ] grip plier is required; without one a simple tool fashioned from a 3/8" turnbuckle does the trick ( example below is arguably the epitome ).

 

I've got originals in both my cars; bushings date from 1968.

 

Cheers,

Tom

[john.r.davies]

Please explain, Tom!

 

Which is the tool and which the product?

JOhn

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Solid rack mounts are a pet peeve of mine.

 

Properly compressed originals give crisp steering response with no lost motion and provide shock absorption which protects the rack and pinion teeth.

 

Compressing these seems to be an all-but-lost art. With an assistant nothing fancier than a Vice [ Mole ] grip plier is required; without one a simple tool fashioned from a 3/8" turnbuckle does the trick ( example below is arguably the epitome ).

 

I've got originals in both my cars; bushings date from 1968.

 

Cheers,

Tom

Tom what is your peeve?

 

I found fitting a solid mount to the passenger side only and a standard rubber and U clamp to the driver's reduced that harshness of the solid mounts and removed the issue of rack float when the bushes got oil soaked from the 'scent marking' engine.

 

Peter W

[Tom Fremont]

Peter,

 

It peeves me when TRIUMPH's design is replaced with something different when no benefit accrues, and ( I would say ) a detrimental element is introduced. They didn't fit the rubber bushes to introduce slop!

 

John,

 

The tool is above; the turnbuckle below is from what it is made. " Just " open out its eyes! It works like a charm and I reckon it's easier to use than the factory tool which probably didn't have to contend with an installed engine - mine goes right in where it needs to with everything in place. I've thought to sell the contraptions on ebay but I guess I'm a bit too peeved.

 

Cheers,

Tom

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Tom, I agree with your sentiment. When the clamping system for the rubber bushes is 'spread' correctly (with a tool not unlike your system) the whole thing stays where it should be.

 

The thinking at ST must have been to remove NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) from the steering when they went from a solid mounted rack on the early TR4 and Herald to the rubber mounted system that is used on all later cars like TR4-6, Herald Spit GT6 Saloons etc with manual steering.

 

Peter W

[TriumphV8]

I am with Peter (no quick rack but with aluminium clamps).

Edited March 9, 2016 by TriumphV8

[Nigel A]

Hi Tom

 

I've read in the past about compressing the mounts but have never known the correct way to it.

 

Not sure if I actually did mine properly.

 

Any chance of an idiots guide to this

 

Cheers

 

Nigel

[AlanG]

My guess is it's the tyres. I had a BMW when they first started fitting runflats. This tracked along road imperfections and white lines as exactly as you describe. Old and hard tyres could be giving the same effect. It was horrible to drive. Despite BMW saying it couldn't be the tyres I eventually changed to non runflats and the tracking was completely cured.

Alan.

[Tom Fremont]

Hi Tom

 

I've read in the past about compressing the mounts but have never known the correct way to it.

 

Not sure if I actually did mine properly.

 

Any chance of an idiots guide to this

 

Cheers

 

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

 

With the homemade tool above you place it between the brackets, loosen one or both* and turn the bar until snug, then tighten the bracket(s).

 

- or -

 

With an assistant, loosen (1) bracket and have him turn the steering wheel until the flange on the rack compresses the bushing under the still tight bracket. While he holds the wheel under steady torque you take a vice/mole grip plier and squeeze the top edge of the loose bracket against its mating flange on the rack, and lock the plier. Tighten the bracket and it's done.

 

The bushings are tight enough when very little or no change in gap between bracket and flange is detected when turning the steering wheel.

 

* Note: wheel alignment must be checked and adjusted afterward. If using the tool, you may be able to cheat if you mark the before positions with masking tape and ensure the movement due to tightening is equal between brackets ( if both were loosened ).

 

Cheers,

Tom

Edited March 8, 2016 by Tom Fremont

[Nigel A]

Thanks so much Tom, that makes sense so will redo mine on its return from the paint shop.

 

Nigel

[Mike K]

Many thanks for the comments and advice – much appreciated. I think I now have a plan:

1. New tyres. I checked the date codes and the newest was made in week 44 of 2010 and since I know the car was off the road for 2 years since then I can’t really assume it will still be ‘OK’. Two others and the spare are from the last century.
2. Wheel alignment – when the new tyres are fitted. Test and take stock.
3. I’m hoping there won’t be a 3 since I have no clue as to identify/tackle any issues with the bushes, ball-joints and trunnions or the steering rack mounts mentioned above (that’s not to say I won’t be having a bash but fingers crossed a small tweak to camber sorts it).
4. Ehrm, back to the forum!

Incidentally, for sake of clarity, the problem is quite likely to appear on a straight road and not necessarily on a bend.

Thanks again.

Mike.

[peejay4A]

Mike

Would it be possible to experiment a little. From your description it suddenly deviates from the straight ahead, so when you next experience it could you turn around and retrace your steps so to speak? If it does it again on the same stretch of road then it might eliminate something like the rack moving about.

Edited March 9, 2016 by peejay4A

[Peter Cobbold]

Many thanks for the comments and advice – much appreciated. I think I now have a plan:

1. New tyres. I checked the date codes and the newest was made in week 44 of 2010 and since I know the car was off the road for 2 years since then I can’t really assume it will still be ‘OK’. Two others and the spare are from the last century.
2. Wheel alignment – when the new tyres are fitted. Test and take stock.
3. I’m hoping there won’t be a 3 since I have no clue as to identify/tackle any issues with the bushes, ball-joints and trunnions or the steering rack mounts mentioned above (that’s not to say I won’t be having a bash but fingers crossed a small tweak to camber sorts it).
4. Ehrm, back to the forum!

Incidentally, for sake of clarity, the problem is quite likely to appear on a straight road and not necessarily on a bend.

Thanks again.

Mike.

Mike,

re 3. Check the rack for side to side moving in its mounts when stationary - get a helper to turn the steering wheel.

 

If the car steers straight most of the time then I would not suspect geometry. Badly worn wishbone bushes usually give a steady 'pull' to one side as they allow the castor to change. The wear pattern on the tyres will also be asymmatrical if wishbone bushes are failing. If the tyres look evenly worn and not shouldered then I doubt its wishbone bushes. Ask the tyre fitter to inspect the old ones.

If the suspension bushes are original rubber then they must be very tired by now.

 

I run 205s and they run perfectly straight even with negative camber of 1.5deg , parallel toe. (But the bushes are nylatron and stainless)

 

Peter