BTW, that 1970 TR6 with 42,500 miles from new............

[Kiwifrog]

Bad Lad Andrew

 

I am sure the LHC will have you re-decorating another room as punishment!!

 

Very nice car, my long gone but very missed TR6 was also baby poo yellow saffron

 

Cheers

 

Alan

[Andrew Smith]

Hi Folks,

 

Thanks for all the positive comments, the welcome back into the TR6 fraternity (this is my fourth and last!) and, of course, the wise cracks - no, no mudflaps!

 

Saffron isn't everyone's cup of tea and usually divides opinion. To be honest it wasn't mine, but when I saw the car in the sunlight and heard about it's history I was hooked! I can't wait to get it into my garage on Saturday and have every intention of staying true to the car, it's an honest example and that's how it will stay. I at least owe that to the previous owner, who is a very pleasant gentleman and deciding to sell was a difficult decision for him to make after 20 years of ownership. It has indeed found a good home.

 

Stuart,

 

That's interesting news about the Originality Class as I find over restored concours cars a real turn off - is there a process to seal the surface rust and prevent it for getting worse without resorting to Jenolite which turns it black?

 

Alec,

 

Yes, OD would have been nice, but it doesn't have it, never did and never will - I'll just have go 500rpm slower!

 

Peter,

 

Not sure what the black on the underside of the bonnet is: soundproofing, Ziebart? It looks to have been sprayed on very professionally and seems to have been on the car for many, many years; maybe a dealership option?

 

Paul,

 

Thanks for the link - very interesting read.

 

Denis,

 

1970 was the year the black windscreen surround first appeared - TR6s built from late (Nov) 1968 to late (Oct) 1969 had the surround sprayed body colour. I looked at the leather strap in the boot and still can't figure out how the jack was attached in that small space?

 

Alan,

 

You really don't want TuRK's old weather kit do you?

 

 

Thanks again all - Saturday really can't come quickly enough!

 

Cheers

Andrew

Edited April 16, 2014 by Andrew Smith

[Clarkey]

Three more sleeps Andrew

Looking forward to seeing the car

[Trigbush]

Well done Andrew on your purchase and on reigniting a debate about patina.

 

Looks to be a lovely looking car - I particularly was surprised at the quality of the interior - nice!

 

You seem to have hit the nail on the head though. How do you preserve patina and originality at the same time as treating surface rust and other issues? Bobby Jones said you have to play the ball where it lies. Some interesting choices ahead.

[Davidw]

That's a beauty, Andrew. Obviously well loved.

[Gordon Bayley]

Saffron was the colour of my first TR6,in the late 70s,

well done Andrew it looks like a very good find, as I recall Derek Graham the TR6 registar has a Saffron TR6 ,

her is my TR6 with me in the 70s ,and me with the [mad hair] cut

Edited April 17, 2014 by Gordon Bayley

[Peter Cobbold]

Whole new ball game preserving patina including superficial rust.

But Wiki opens up possible answers to check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_and_restoration_of_metals

Phosphate we have heard of before. But tannin is new to me, also Fertan.

www.medal-project.eu/12-iron_conservation.pdf

 

https://www.iiconservation.org/node/235 ( paywalled)

"Tannin solutions can be used to conserve objects with a light rust. The rust is converted by the process and the subsequent drying to strong and resistant layers, connected with the metal base. These form a suitable pretreatment for the application of varnish or coatings. Tannin may also be used on objects with thick layers of rust, which are thus converted to a powdery material easily removable mechanically, while a tannate film of suitable protective qualities forms directly on the metal. Describes application with a brush of tannin solutions, as well as the ripening process of the tannate layer. For objects lightly rusted a solution of 200 g tannin in 1 liter of distilled water plus 150 milliliters of alcohol is suggested. To treat objects more heavily rusted it is necessary to add phosphoric acid to the first coat."

 

Peter

[Paul Harvey]

Fertan is great stuff - paint on over light surface rust on the inner bodyshell (under carpets etc.) and it converts the rust only to a matt grey surface that looks 'right' and is convincingly 'solid.'

I use Jenolite on a rag to wipe away rust spots on bumpers etc. where metal polish would be too abrasive.

Either of these is much less intrusive than wire brush, wire wool or sanding.

I have read every source I can find on preservation, conservation and 'originality' of classic cars.

You have to get your head around the concept that perfection is irrelevant. The first time you succumb to new paint, new chrome or a shiny new part you will instantly highlight the aging on adjacent parts that looked fine before.

 

Clean it and leave it. Easy concept, very hard to do.

[Peter Cobbold]

Fertan is great stuff - paint on over light surface rust on the inner bodyshell (under carpets etc.) and it converts the rust only to a matt grey surface that looks 'right' and is convincingly 'solid.'

I use Jenolite on a rag to wipe away rust spots on bumpers etc. where metal polish would be too abrasive.

Either of these is much less intrusive than wire brush, wire wool or sanding.

I have read every source I can find on preservation, conservation and 'originality' of classic cars.

You have to get your head around the concept that perfection is irrelevant. The first time you succumb to new paint, new chrome or a shiny new part you will instantly highlight the aging on adjacent parts that looked fine before.

 

Clean it and leave it. Easy concept, very hard to do.

Sounds like you have material for an article for TRAction ?

Peter

[Paul Harvey]

Peter,

 

It is a very short article - 'clean it and leave it.'

The rest of the narrative is about why doing anything else at all is wrong.

You end up looking at the bits of the car that are not 'original' or 'perfect' and worrying endlessly how you can 'fix them.'

That's dead simple - you can't.

 

The whole 'Concours' movement has evolved to the point where the most experienced judges and practitioners are now questioning what they have been doing. World class events like Pebble Beach now recognise that true 'survivor' cars in their completely unmolested factory condition are the only benchmarks against which cars can be properly judged.

[nowtelse2do]

Saffron was the colour of my first TR6,in the late 70s,

well done Andrew it looks like a very good find, as I recall Derek Graham the TR6 registar has a Saffron TR6 ,

her is my TR6 with me in the 70s ,and me with the [mad hair] cut

 

Come on Gordon.....tell the truth, the one behind is your's isn't it.

 

Dave

[Peter Cobbold]

Paul

Thats very much in accord with FIVA Charter of Turin

www.fiva.org/site/en/publications/category/2-charta-of-turin?download=335:turin-charter-english-final-version

But I note that compared with their drafts FIVA have back-pedalled on excluding concours rebuilds from historic status! They probably realised that 90% of old motors often look smarter now than when new and FIVA's power-base would be seriously eroded were they too narrow in their definition.

There'd just be you and Andrew representing TRs....and who else?

Perhaps TRR should initiate a Survivor TR Section: the "Positive EnTRopy Section "

 

Peter

Edited April 17, 2014 by Peter Cobbold

[Paul Harvey]

The Salon Prive Concours later this year at Syon Park has a new category 'original and unrestored.'

It will be interesting to see the cars that are selected for entry and how rigorously that concept is scrutinised.

[Tom Fremont]

Hi Andrew,

 

You might consider some 185-15 tyres as fitted to American TR6s to stretch the gearing. They look the bees knees on the car and there are some fabulous performers still to be had, like the Michelin XVS.

 

I wondered if you were missing VUX - I know I would have.

[Andrew Smith]

Peter, Paul and ...........where's Mary?

 

Thanks for the advice and links to methods of preserving patina (surface rust), I shall look into this in more detail before doing anything - but I do rather like Paul's maxim 'clean and leave it'.

 

David,

 

Yes, it is a beauty and has obviously been cosseted and cherished by the 3 previous owner, as it will by me.

 

Gordon,

 

Nice photo - the hair is not a problem as we've all been there and some still are (Mr P), but those wing mirrors, geez...........

 

Tom,

 

The car is currently wearing Dunlop SP Sport, but I can't recall what size?

 

Yes, I didn't think I would, but I have been missing VUX and whilst it was an excellent car (albeit red, before anyone starts!), but this one is far better in a different way.

 

In fact the LHC said something rather profound the other day, she simply said "the M3 just doesn't look right in the garage" and of course she was right, as always!

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Paul Harvey]

Andrew,

 

Let's be clear - dirt and rust are not 'patina,' however much the 'barn find' auction craze would have you believe.

Nevertheless, over enthusiastic removal of either can remove underlying and surrounding patina.

Better to cautiously stabilise it while you consider alternatives.

Then consider some more.

Then do nothing.

 

It's quite therapeutic after a while..........

 

You could call it 'The lazy man's route to Concours glory.'

[dykins]

There has got to be something that needs polishing on the jalopy surely...

[Paul Harvey]

Ah Mr. Dykins, I thought that would get your attention :rolleyes:

Imagine a long line up of filthy cars winning all the prizes. Heaven.

[PaulAA]

Okay, Andrew, you got me. LHC?

 

Paul

[Paul Harvey]

I had to look that one up myself.

'Long Haired Community' comes up but Andrew is an Army Major.

His wife is obviously of a senior rank.

Discuss.

[PaulAA]

I was puzzling over Large Hadron Collider.

 

Which i have decided is a splendid epithet for the MiL and one I shall use henceforth............................ when she isn't listening.

[Andrew Smith]

Okay, Andrew, you got me. LHC?

 

Paul

 

I had to look that one up myself.

'Long Haired Community' comes up but Andrew is an Army Major.

His wife is obviously of a senior rank.

Discuss.

 

Sorry for the confusion chaps, LHC is my pet name for Bev and one I use a lot on the forum i.e. the 'Long Haired Colonel', so Paul was in the ball park.

 

Another pet name is 'Doris', but she usually hits me when I use that one!

 

Cheers

Andrew

[PaulAA]

Yes, I slipped up once with the 'Doris' reference. The effect of the reaction was long-term and would be plausible grounds for a disability pension.

[jean]

AH... Andrew now you are our friend again... congratulations with this great car. What's the commission # you know mine is also an early 70, but dispatched in pieces to Belgium end 69, probably november. Contrary to yours mine still has the 69 interior trim.

 

About the leather strap in the boot, mine did not have it. Jack and tools were stored in the spare wheel. The tools are lying in the garage for over 30 years, junk only good for the show

That's what I remember and the car was original when I bought it, under 3 years old with 30k miles but with rust on all 4 corners It still has all the Original paint on the inside of the body shell and the spare wheel has some 1970 air in it , up to now it was never used must be limited in the mean time to 30mph

Edited April 18, 2014 by jean

[Andrew Smith]

Hi Jean,

 

Yes, the M3 was a bit of a impulsive buy - but it's good to be back with another TR6 and everyone's friend again. Well, except a few maybe!

 

Comm No is CP 52259.

 

Pick the car up tomorrow and as Martin (Clarkey) says, 'just one more sleep', if I can!

 

Cheers

Andrew