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BTW, that 1970 TR6 with 42,500 miles from new............


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Look forward to reading that article, brilliant detective work

 

Thanks, I'm looking forward to writing it Brian.

 

That's just fantastic. To learn the history behind the car must feel so satisfying. Let's hope the two PO's can rekindle their friendship.
Simon

 

Simon,

 

Yes it is, and sense they are keen to meet each other again - maybe one owes the other some money! :rolleyes:

 

 

Andrew,

Have been very interested to follow this thread,as have many others. Do you think it would be worthwhile for there to be a forum section dedicated to "survivors" - not just TR6?

I am the proud keeper of 2 survivors, reference cars, originals, unmolested, or whatever they may get called - one in my custodianship for almost 40 years, and another a mere 5 years (bought from the first owner!), and both nice "used"cars with full history and interesting stories.

What do you think?

 

Alan,

 

It might serve as a useful reference library, but to be honest, if I didn't have a 'survivor' car then I might see it as a bit divisive - most of us know who has what car and if not then a fellow member only has to post a question on originality and it would be answered pretty quickly I'm sure.

 

That's just my own view of course, so over to other opinions............

 

 

Paul,

 

Thanks for the head-up and food for thought indeed; at least it has a correctly painted screen surround for a 69 car! :D

 

 

Cheers all

Andrew

 

 

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Andrew,

Have been very interested to follow this thread,as have many others. Do you think it would be worthwhile for there to be a forum section dedicated to "survivors" - not just TR6?

I am the proud keeper of 2 survivors, reference cars, originals, unmolested, or whatever they may get called - one in my custodianship for almost 40 years, and another a mere 5 years (bought from the first owner!), and both nice "used"cars with full history and interesting stories.

What do you think?

Alan/Andrew,

maybe if there was a Register/Database for those Originals it might be a better Idea.Between yourselves and Paul Harvey I'm sure you could come up with some sort of Database without to much Work.

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Alan/Andrew,

maybe if there was a Register/Database for those Originals it might be a better Idea.Between yourselves and Paul Harvey I'm sure you could come up with some sort of Database without to much Work.

 

Yes, that's a good way forward Niall; maybe it's something the TR Register could set up through one of the Registrars or maybe the Registrars could keep their own unrestored/original model database if they don't do so already?

 

Cheers

Andrew

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According to their owners, they are all original.

It is not the job of a Registrar to adjudicate such matters, which would inevitably involve upsetting people.

 

Lobby for concours originality classes, and penalise over restoration.

Apart from that, just enjoy the cars - no need for upgrades when you have an original!

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According to their owners, they are all original.

It is not the job of a Registrar to adjudicate such matters, which would inevitably involve upsetting people.

 

Lobby for concours originality classes, and penalise over restoration.

Apart from that, just enjoy the cars - no need for upgrades when you have an original!

 

Paul,

 

I think it could be in the respective Registrar's interest to keep a database on cars which are unrestored/original, if for no other reason than future reference.

 

Totally agree on the lobby for 'originality classes', but for unrestored original cars and not those restored to original specification..........there are already enough concours events for over-restored cars.

 

Can of worms time?

 

Cheers

Andrew

Edited by Andrew Smith
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I just wonder what is the definition of original here? Is it that the car is entirely untouched, nothing replaced except for disposables? Is there a notion of what is acceptable and what is just a worn out shed? Is there an accepted level of verified kilometrage above which the car's value/status falls?

 

I agree with Paul here - separate registers for those within a certain circle is divisive and will lead to all sorts of handbag moments and frankly we have had enough of those in the past.

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Gavin, Neil

 

Worth reading this post and the link by Paul - you may find this link interesting - Restore it? Or not!

Great car. If it is as original as it looks then PLEASE do not touch a thing unless safety issues dictate otherwise.

The proper term for such cars is 'survivor' and these are becoming the holy grail for serious collectors.

Even the dot 4 paint damage is part of the story of the car.

 

As Stuart says, this is a serious Concours contender in the proper sense of the original description.

See: http://www.survivorcollectorcar.com/

 

 

This reminds me of Trigger's broom from Only Fools .....
How did it go..."totally original apart from 7 new handles and 6 new brush heads"

 

Crawfie,

 

Yes, many are - but some out there are not. ;)

 

Cheers

Andrew

 

 

 

 

 

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Interesting read, so according to fact 3, a simply repaint would be considered as irreversable, so the car would be restored and not original.

 

Dam theres me thinking my car was pretty much original..... Te he

Well at least the heater is....

 

Cheers

GUY

Edited by Jersey Royal
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I'm chuffed that mine looks similar to the day it came of the factory. Paint more or less correct, as are the wheels, lamps and fittings.

 

Each to their own, but 'originality' looks to me like a pain in the artifice and a potential deterent to getting out on the road and enjoying the car.

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"Original" certainly need not imply lack of use or enjoyment, but does involve a some commitment to proper maintenance - as they all do!! For my part one of my "originals" is regularly used for shopping trips, runs to the beach, to the mountains, and often parked in public!! The UK original also regularly used - sometimes even in the wet!(Gasps of shock off stage in some quarters?!) Maybe not concours, certainly not sheds, but regularly enjoyed! On the other hand, the race car IS a case of "7 new handles....etc' and also used enthusiastically - horses for courses eh?

Edited by alan57
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Interesting read, so according to fact 3, a simply repaint would be considered as irreversable, so the car would be restored and not original.

 

 

 

Also to read: "Finally, the Car Owner’s mission is usually to receive recognition."

 

I was wondering how in fact you can verify the originality of a car. Take my 1974 TR6. It was restored in 1991. I know this because I have a full history file including polaroids of the car as a shell and some chap who looks like Kenny Sansom working on it.

 

But imagine if the seller had told me this was a "sur-vi-vah". How the hell would you know the difference between 23 year old patina and 40 year old patina (excluding the restorer's marks and scratches, etc?). I recall when I had the Stag repainted the chap who prepared it and sprayed it said it was one of the best shells he had ever seen. He re-applied Sapphire Blue. He could not believe it when I told him the BMHIT certificate listed it as being Jasmine on delivery - he could not find a single trace of Jasmine on the shell (it's a shame it was resprayed otherwise I could have called the car "Jassy Jeff" - with me being "the Fresh Prince").

 

I am sure the techo-gods out there (yes you know who you are) could readily tell the difference between a sterling, first-rate older restoration and an original car. But I think there would be room for doubt on any car lacking a continuous history file (one owner since birth, etc). And when there's room for doubt, I would be concerned that if too much value is placed on originality, this is just an invitation for fraud.

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