Vented discs

[RogerH]

Hi Jean,

you say the EBC vented discs are 'easy to fit'. Did you have to break your calipers apart to fit the spacer (you need to on a 4A)

I agree that it is not an engineering nightmare but not simple/easy as in replacing with a solid disc.

I also found that my EBC discs were off centre and had to pack out one side a small amount.

Otherwise I am very pleased with the result.

 

When the first set eventually needed replacing I found that the discs on their own were MORE expensive than the kit which included the spacer/seals etc.

 

Roger

[simonjrwinter]

I am not a physist or mathmatician and my spelling sometimes lets me down But:

 

(and I am sorry to return to the OP question)

 

I read your brakes are getting hot. Does this mean you are experiencing

 

1. Brake fade? If so change the pad material to one which retains its efficiendy at high temperatures. (pagid rs 42 or RS14)

2. Soft pedal or pedal to the floor? If so change the brake fluid to one which retains its efficiency at high temperatures.(castrol SRB)

 

If however you find that it is taking too long to slow down from high speed then fit larger discs.

 

If after fitting larger discs you tend to lock up easily, you need to fit wider tyres with a softer compound.

 

If you do this you will need to fit stronger road springs to control the sudden weight transfer to the front under braking, which will ruin your shocks so those will need to be upgraded.

 

Trouble is now with a stiff front end you will need to work on your rear so it behaves

 

Now of course with all these modifications you might find the brakes get hot.

 

 

 

Brilliant!

[Tony Millward]

I am not a physist or mathmatician and my spelling sometimes lets me down But:

 

(and I am sorry to return to the OP question)

 

I read your brakes are getting hot. Does this mean you are experiencing

 

1. Brake fade? If so change the pad material to one which retains its efficiendy at high temperatures. (pagid rs 42 or RS14)

2. Soft pedal or pedal to the floor? If so change the brake fluid to one which retains its efficiency at high temperatures.(castrol SRB)

 

If however you find that it is taking too long to slow down from high speed then fit larger discs.

 

If after fitting larger discs you tend to lock up easily, you need to fit wider tyres with a softer compound.

 

If you do this you will need to fit stronger road springs to control the sudden weight transfer to the front under braking, which will ruin your shocks so those will need to be upgraded.

 

Trouble is now with a stiff front end you will need to work on your rear so it behaves

 

Now of course with all these modifications you might find the brakes get hot.

 

 

 

Absolutely great...very funny...loved it...

[Andy Moltu]

The issue is cooking the brake fluid. Pads are Hawke which function fine.

I was just looking for a vented disc that can be used with the original calipers, with a spacer fitted. Thus not affecting the brake balance characteristics too much.

Yes, not using silicon brake fluid is the solution which I have at present. However at sea and no mountains level silicon brake fuid works fine and isn't going to strip the paint when the master cylinder leaks (as with all hydraulics it will do so eventually) and thus I won't spend hours burning out brake fluid from the seams before repainting.

 

Spacer kits are cheap - from Canley Classics.

As Roger says the ECB discs are expensive - compared to the average vented disc fitted to a modern. I'm working on the theory that ECB probably haven't manufactured a vented disc specifically for the TR4/5/6 but have used one of their existing range that presumably fits an existing vehicle. If it fits something else then there are likely to be other suppliers manufacturing and selling it. It's just a matter of finding out what. Thus avoiding the "classic car inflation" that seems to affect parts prices, especially on "tuning parts" for classics.

Edited October 9, 2012 by andymoltu

[Ric]

You might find fiat punto front rotors worth looking at they require redrilling to suit the hub and you will need to either split the calliper and space or fit pre 05 toyota hilux 4pot callipers

[jean]

Roger, sorry for the late response. For the time being I'm in my place in S of France and do not open the forum that often.

 

I'm not an engineer but have followed an extensive technical education in my first life. So it might be peanuts to me and to you but not to others.

 

Yes I had to split the calipers and fit the spacer. But as new hight tensile bolts and seals are included in the kit there is little risk to make a mistake as long as you are equipped with a good quality torque wrench.

With concern to the off-centre of the disk you are right, but I think this is also valid for the standard calipers

.

From original the calipers on my 6 were fitted with shims to centre the disk. Unfortunately when removing the calipers the shims drop out and most people probably are not aware where they came from and so they fit them back on the outside under the nut where washers mostly belong.

 

Seen the yearly milage I do not expect that I'll have to replace the disks in the future, so the price is of less importance

[claude]

Hi guys. For what its worth, my recollections are that 97to99 year volvos have the same pcd stud pattern as the tr6. I stumbled upon this little gem of trivia by looking for alloys to fit my 6 and found a site selling alloy wheels that listed not only the pcd of the wheels for my tr6, but that of other manufacturers as well. It became a simple transposition that other cars with same pcd discs etc would fit our beloved labours of love( read that as money pits) but heres the rub of it-- i cannot remember what the alloy wheel site was that listed all the info im afraid. Sorry guys to give info then cruelly retract such but if i get time in next few days il grind my remaining two grey cells together and dig it out for you all. The info is out there, just remembering where is foxing me at present-- sorry fellas, regards claude

[claude]

Hi . Right, found some info on web which came up with " carl salter. com " which lists loads n loads of rims but most importantly gives info on which make and model has the all important 114.3mm pcd x 4 stud set up.Find the site online, then click on section that says " find wheels by pcd" , scroll down to 4 x 114.3 and voila-- a list of potential donors of vented discs-- granted more research required but its a start!!!!!! Lots of nissans and the earlier volvo s40/v40 models,rover 600/800,loads of hyundai models,quite a few honda models, obviously the ones with 4 stud pattern are required and is a case now of tying up make and model of car with right pcd to a disc supplier-- again info eludes me at the moment but my fuddled brain vaguely recalls a site that gave all the disc sizes and offsets on their site-- stay tuned and il dig it out!!! Cheers, claude

Edited October 14, 2012 by claude

[Grabea]

Just to point out that whilst the correct PCD is a big bonus the bore in the centre of the disc which locates it centrally on the hub for proper alignment is very important and of course the mounting face to disc c/l is another critical dimension. If the centre bore is too small it can be bored out on a lathe but accuracy of allignment is critical to avoid vibration issues, slight correction to the mounting face dimension can be acheived with shims on the caliper mounts possibly. Don't want to pour cold water on the idea, just prevent somebody rushing out and spending their hard earned on a pair of discs with a matching PCD only to find there's no way to make them fit.

Graham

[whatmore179]

Just to start this topic again, has anyone found a vented disc which fits the spaced caliper. RogerH has given me some details of the EBC ones, but are there any other alternatives, ie Brembo, DBA etc.

Steve

[smizgals]

Steve,

 

Talk to HiSpec Motorsport they do 4Pot conversions with vented discs: http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/TR5285B4.html.

I believe they used to provide spacers for the standard calipers prior to EBC.

 

They supplied me with 4Pot calipers for the standard disc so my guess is that their vented discs in the kit above may well be suitable.

 

Stan

[whatmore179]

Thanks Stan Ill contact them

Steve

[harrytr5]

I have fitted Hi Spec four pot calipers plus vented disc's.I believe the vented disc's are BMW ones drilled and bored out to suit the hubs.I have suffered with a long brake pedal when reversing and braking then driving forward and braking and on first dab,long brake pedal.Second dab pedal returns.Thought it was pad knock back with possible axle flex so I changed to alloy hub,thicker stub axle and bigger bearings( inner and outer).Bled many many times and still it persists.Changed

master cylinder to original and changed servo,still the same.Brakes are stomping great as proved in Spa,Le Mans etc.They have to have a dab first and they are very good.What am I missing!! I have not changed the rear cylinders which were new as was everything else.I am on silicone and have used this for years in previous TR,s with no issues as have others so I do not think it is there.

Sorry to have Hi jacked this thread but a answer on the disc,s though.

Regards Harry

[Guest ntc]

Harry

Restrictor valves

[harrytr5]

Yes Neil, I have spoken with Daryl and he has suggested them but over £200 a pop and then if they do not work?

Thanks for your thoughts though.

Regards Harry.

[smizgals]

Harry,

 

I don't have those symptoms with their calipers and don't see how vented, i.e. wider, discs can cause that.

 

In fact I have fitted TR3 discs from DBA that differ only in diameter, 280mm (11") instead of the 275mm (10-13/16") for the late TR4 onwards.

 

Stan

[stephen cooper]

Harry,

 

I seemed to experience the same problem you describe the other night and I run standard brakes.

[Steves_TR6]

Guy ( Jersey Royal ) and I had a lengthy discussion about long pedal (over a beer )

 

He is thinking of trying the restrictor valves, and i am going to test fit the larger bore master cylinder that i bought a while ago.

 

I do like the idea of the restrictor valves, but as Harry says its an expensive test.

 

any more thoughts ??

 

steve

[stuart]

The valves do the job well.

Stuart..

[Stanpartmanpartwolf]

Residual pressure valves do not cost £200, nor do they work in my experience. Almost all pedal travel issues are caused by knockback (a subject already done to death here), or excess piston retraction. The latter is a swine to track down; if your HiSpec brakes have alloy pistons, try a change to steel. I won't bore you with the details, suffice it to say that alloy pistons and alloy calipers are not always an ideal combination.

Worn drums also contribute (never refinish a drum); think about piston retraction again.

SPMPW

[GT6M]

RPV valves work pefectly well, but if ye got a split set up, then 2 will be needed,

and diff pressure ratings too.

Fitting a bigger MC is a NoNo, I tried it in the mistaken beleif it would stop a long pedal,

It did,nt, and made the brakes even less effective, as the brake force needed went up too much.

Smaller MC with RPV s and bigger discs, beter pads will be as good if not better than most moderns.

and way better feel than a sevo set up.

 

as for discs, ev a ratch thru here, can tell you wat fits a GT but not a TR.

how to work it, no yer inset, then look for ones that are v near,

as for bore of center, look for one thats too small, as itcan either be opened up, or hub shaved doon.

 

inside a 15 inch wheel then a 305 MM or 12 inch disc will fit. they doo on mine.

M

Brake Disc Catalogue 2012.xls - brake_disc_catalogue_2013_apr.pdf

brake catalogue

[stuart]

if your HiSpec brakes have alloy pistons, try a change to steel. I won't bore you with the details, suffice it to say that alloy pistons and alloy calipers are not always an ideal combination.

 

SPMPW

That is the nub of the problem with the "cheap upgrades" Save up and by proper AP calipers.

Valves do help with cheap calipers.

Stuart.

[harrytr5]

I am now convinced it is the front end causing the long brake pedal.I fitted a new master cylinder just in case and still the same.I think it is the four pot Hi Spec set up.I will be taking all this off and try with the standard callipers and disc,s to prove or disprove my theory. I will still keep the thicker stub axle/bigger bearing/alloy hub kit though.If it then works as it should I will

then look at other proper four pot callipers i.e. willwood/ AP for valuation and speak to guys who have done this conversion.

Lots of headaches but fun nether less.

Regards HarryTR5 Nutter

[GT6M]

It will be the fronts, and there No need to tek all yer stuff off.

You need a RPV /s just fit one to front circut first, see how it goes,

can be fitted in 1/2 hour, they cost about 15£

I put mine on MC, but yours could go where the split in brake lines are. [if on a dual set up, are they,!! not into TR brakes }

 

 

Markus

[Richard B]

Not a TR (but still Triumphs). I have had brake fade in two vehicles (both were PI). I've found that having steel wheels excaerbates the problem, as the heat cannot leave the area.

 

I would not argue physics with John, I know better.

 

But do you have alloy wheels fitted? That modification helped cool the brakes on my two problem cars.