Steves_TR6 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I am broken down! Car was running ok, then developed the usual misfire , then list power and stopped. I coasted into a pub... Did some basic checks, then called the rac. Rac man 'tested' ignition and couldn't get a spark. He went off to Moss, nearby!, and returned with a gold coil. Thus produced sparks but no difference to the engine. Fuel pump running and sounding normal. Engine turns over rapidly but does not really try to fire. Once it started to run very badly then some smoke came out of the air filter, k&n on the phelum, so I turned it off. Now I'm waiting for the rescue truck :-( I am not enjoying tr6 ownership right now! Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I am broken down! I coasted into a pub Some people always fall on their feet Well, if there was no spark, better chase that down first I guess. If you still have points, are they closed up? Condenser? Ballast - they sometimes fail when hot, then recover after a while? Have we done the ballast/wrong coil thing? Rotor arm? I seem to remember you've done all this stuff though. Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red 6 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Just happened to a yellow 6 in waltham abbey. It was being loaded onto a recovery truck, the driver had a "resigned look" It sounds like you have rotor arm shorting or a duff condenser. I thought all the dire crappy rotorarms had gone but who know. And TR6 ownership is always a challenge until the time that everything that could possible go wrong has...at least twice..then it's ok..not. Hope the fault is found and fixed quickly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) Hi Ivor, yes there are worse places to stop, and worse weather. I dont think it's ignition. Although the symptoms are a bit like the ignition timing is way out, but the distrib isn't loose and it's in the right position by eye. Under the 'it's the last thing you touched' rule I was investigating the fueling yesterday. Although I only touched the injector/mu port fir cyl 3. Bloody classic cars! And I'm not impressed with 'on time' recovery services either! Steve Edited March 28, 2011 by SDerbyshire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PJM Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Are you still on points? If so check the heel has not worn down/melted and closed the gap also check the rotor arm, even if it is new they have been known to fail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Yes points can fail in a mile, as I found between runs at Prescott. Nothing worse than new (polymer) points for closing up - bring back fibre points! I carry spare points,condenser,rotor arm...etc The MU should be last component to question, mine was untra-reliable for a decade as daily driver. Mind you that was before ethanol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkkie Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 sounds similar to my situation last year. Eventualy traced it to the LT wire between the coil and dizzy (about 10 inches long)..... the wire had aged with heat and the middle of the wire had a kink, the insulation had degraded and the exposed conductor touched the block now and again and eventualy all the time. Cuts the ignition out completely.. Regards Andy fitted magnetic pick up after that so didnt need the wire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 sounds similar to my situation last year. Eventualy traced it to the LT wire between the coil and dizzy (about 10 inches long)..... the wire had aged with heat and the middle of the wire had a kink, the insulation had degraded and the exposed conductor touched the block now and again and eventualy all the time. Cuts the ignition out completely.. Regards Andy fitted magnetic pick up after that so didnt need the wire. Well done Yorkie, you are right ! I just got back from the garage, fortified with tea and cake i decided to meticulously examine the electrics before looking at further fuel issues. And the problem? A shorted earth lead in the distributor. It was rubbing on the cam lobes and eventually shorting randomly .... and whats worse?, I FITTED THIS WIRE MYSELF !!! DOH ! I remember the day well, i was pi$$ed off with the mystery braking problem so decided to do a simple and rewarding job, fitting electronic ignition. I failed to secure the negative LT wire to the coil adequately within the distrib.... and today was the result. I have now checked the whole circuit over, and replaced the crimped connectors fitted by the PO with nicely soldered and double shrink insulated ones. Now having a Beer And the moral of the story? Don't be tempted to do an 'easy job' when you're pi$$ed off with a difficult one :-) Thanks for the replies and support guys :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
radiocheck Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Don't be too downhearted Steve - mine coasted to a halt in the first few days of ownership last Spring. But the fault was soon sorted and I went on to do 2000 (relitavely)trouble-free miles last Summer, terrific! . Classic cars - it's all about taking the rough with the smooth. Best of luck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave I O W Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Well done Yorkie, you are right ! I just got back from the garage, fortified with tea and cake i decided to meticulously examine the electrics before looking at further fuel issues. And the problem? A shorted earth lead in the distributor. It was rubbing on the cam lobes and eventually shorting randomly .... and whats worse?, I FITTED THIS WIRE MYSELF !!! DOH ! I remember the day well, i was pi$$ed off with the mystery braking problem so decided to do a simple and rewarding job, fitting electronic ignition. I failed to secure the negative LT wire to the coil adequately within the distrib.... and today was the result. I have now checked the whole circuit over, and replaced the crimped connectors fitted by the PO with nicely soldered and double shrink insulated ones. Now having a Beer And the moral of the story? Don't be tempted to do an 'easy job' when you're pi$$ed off with a difficult one :-) Thanks for the replies and support guys :-) Hi Steve, Glad you got it sorted, Enjoy your beer and when you go for a blast next time you'll be grinning from ear to ear, By the way thats a nice looking car you have there. Cheers Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Well done, Steve! Despite the frustration of it happening, the satisfaction of diagnosing and sorting yourself should be included in the equation, esp. when the RAC man didn't have a clue. It's pat on the back time, not kick up the................. And as a Lesson of the Week, it reinforces two valuable points: 1/ What's wrong? It's the last thing that was done to the car. 2/ Sudden failure, without nasty noises = electrical, never mechanical failure. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Well done, Steve! Despite the frustration of it happening, the satisfaction of diagnosing and sorting yourself should be included in the equation, esp. when the RAC man didn't have a clue. It's pat on the back time, not kick up the................. And as a Lesson of the Week, it reinforces two valuable points: 1/ What's wrong? It's the last thing that was done to the car. 2/ Sudden failure, without nasty noises = electrical, never mechanical failure. John Thanks John ! Yes i was quite please with my 'sherlock holmes' impression. You should see the neatness and security of the wiring now, every joint is soldered and double shrink insultated :-) I also thought it wasn't a mechanical failure due to lack of noises, although the backfiring did have me worried. I now put this down to random spark timing due to earthing of the lt lead in the distrib. Looking forward to receiving the new MU and PRV and getting the fueling working properly. Shame its raining now and for a few days according to the forecast! Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CONCRETE24 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Well done Yorkie, you are right ! I have now checked the whole circuit over, and replaced the crimped connectors fitted by the PO with nicely soldered and double shrink insulated ones. Hi Steve, Glad you are up and running again! I was interested in your comment about soldering the connections: I was told by a very experienced auto electrician, that soldering was a 'complete no no' for car electrics (exceptions being circuit boards etc). He advised that crimping, when done properly was far more reliable in the long term as solder can break down and crack (especially in the under bonnet area). Since then I have always religiously crimped everything (plus insulation of course)! I wonder if anyone else has an opinion on this? Keep TRying! Michael. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hi Michael, in aerospace, wires/cables are always crimped. I think this is for long term reliability but an added benefit is also the logistics of crimping compared to soldering on an aircraft on an airfield. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I always crimp and then solder but I do have the advantage of a Portosol gas powered soldering iron that can be used in the most awkward places. I haven`t had any problems with electrics using that method. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hi Steve, Glad you are up and running again! I was interested in your comment about soldering the connections: I was told by a very experienced auto electrician, that soldering was a 'complete no no' for car electrics (exceptions being circuit boards etc). He advised that crimping, when done properly was far more reliable in the long term as solder can break down and crack (especially in the under bonnet area). Since then I have always religiously crimped everything (plus insulation of course)! I wonder if anyone else has an opinion on this? Keep TRying! Michael. Yes I've read that somewhere. The problem with solder is the loss of flexibility, so vibration work-hardens the wire at the soldered/unsoldered join. This focussed stress leads to premature failure. That said I solder joints then support the join with heat shrink. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yes I've read that somewhere. The problem with solder is the loss of flexibility, so vibration work-hardens the wire at the soldered/unsoldered join. This focussed stress leads to premature failure. That said I solder joints then support the join with heat shrink. I do the same. I dont like the look of crimped connectors and I dont trust my ability to reliably crimp a connector to a wire in such a way that they could even resist the pull of gravity. So I solder connectors to wires and if they are exposed I use heat shrink tubing around them. I have a gas powered soldering iron but my secret weapon is a big electric soldering iron that stores enough heat that I could unplug it and walk to the next town and still be able to solder with it so it is very portable in and around a TR and does a great job with bullet connectors. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Many years ago when I was a Computer techie and regularly had to modify wiring on mainframe backplanes it was always wirewrapped because soldered joints were too unreliable with heat movement and high currents. I still believe a proper crimped connection is better than a soldered one, but then again for the use our cars get I doubt it makes a difference Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) I always crimp and then solder but I do have the advantage of a Portosol gas powered soldering iron that can be used in the most awkward places. I haven`t had any problems with electrics using that method. Stuart. Snap ! I used crimp connects and then soldered the wire to the already crimped connector. Then two layers of heat shrink tubing, different sizes overlaid and shrunk one at a time. I have a little gas soldering iron, that converts to a mini heat gun for shrinking the shrink tubing, cant remember the make but it was from Maplin. Steve Edited March 29, 2011 by SDerbyshire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clarkey Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hi Steve. Glad you are back on the road, don't get too disheartened now and then we all get a bit of trouble. Not long after I got my 6 I had had a great run over to see Neil(NTC),all was great , then on the way back my electronic ignition started to fail. I limped on to woodall services (M1) then died After a chat with Neil, I fitted the old points, set the gap using the thickness of a fag packet,cow titted some wiring ruffly timed the car and managed to get back to Brum, Pissed at the time ,but satisfied I got back. Changed said ignition. Happy days, fun again. Its all part of the fun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It's standard racing practice, probably inherited from aerospace, to crimp, rather than solder. But let's not forget that it was a SOLDERED joint that failed and put the LHC out of commission, costing CERN $24 MILLION. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7627631.stm John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It's standard racing practice, probably inherited from aerospace, to crimp, rather than solder. But let's not forget that it was a SOLDERED joint that failed and put the LHC out of commission, costing CERN $24 MILLION. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7627631.stm John I believe the term was "poorly soldered joint" Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 One tip I've offered before to help reduce the chances of electrical joints failing. Hot melt glue gun, and use your fingers to roll the blob of glue into a neat sausage or whatever - encasing bullet connectors for example. Keeps out the damp and reduces vibration. One cheap upgrade. Not my bright idea, my son's, electrical integrity matters in marine applications. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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