foster461 Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 My TR3A didnt come with a starting handle and they are NLA so I will need to find a used one via the usual places. As I search, do all the TR's 2-4 use the same handle or do I need to narrow my search to something more specific ? Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 (edited) My TR3A didnt come with a starting handle and they are NLA so I will need to find a used one via the usual places. As I search, do all the TR's 2-4 use the same handle or do I need to narrow my search to something more specific ? Stan Hi Stan, Have you considered using the key instead Sorry couldnt resist. Another point where do you keep the handle within the car? An interesting site http://www.tjwakeman.net/TR/Tools.htm Cheers Guy Edited October 27, 2010 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted October 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Hi Stan, Have you considered using the key instead Sorry couldnt resist. Another point where do you keep the handle within the car? An interesting site http://www.tjwakeman.net/TR/Tools.htm Cheers Guy I want to enjoy the full TR3 experience Guy including hand cranking the engine to start it. The key is required even with the starting handle to power up the ignition system. There is a button to crank the engine with the starter motor or optionally turn it over with the handle. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 I want to enjoy the full TR3 experience Guy including hand cranking the engine to start it. The key is required even with the starting handle to power up the ignition system. There is a button to crank the engine with the starter motor or optionally turn it over with the handle. Stan Stan How to dislocate or break your wrist not a good idea IMHO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Stan How to dislocate or break your wrist not a good idea IMHO Neil, Just like starting a dumper truck or cement mixer then... Never fold your thumb around the handle, hold the handle with your hand cupped. I have known a few chaps with broken or dislocated thumbs and one with a broken jaw. They all thought they knew better. Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Neil, Just like starting a dumper truck or cement mixer then... Never fold your thumb around the handle, hold the handle with your hand cupped. I have known a few chaps with broken or dislocated thumbs and one with a broken jaw. They all thought they knew better. Cheers Guy The good old days Guy Not !! Stan it is not worth it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 I want to enjoy the full TR3 experience Guy including hand cranking the engine to start it. Just make sure the radiator has not been replaced with a more efficient one without the starting handle hole or it could be an expensive wind-up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted October 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Thanks for the concern over my well being and I will be sure to check that I have a hole in the rad. In fact I'm going to do it now before I forget ! Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2long Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Hi Stan: Just so you know you are not alone, I made sure to crank up my 2 just so I could say I did it. Make sure the car is in good tune, and I did it with the car already warmed. That defeats the purpose a bit, but only if the purpose is function rather than fun. Of course, now I have a recored rad so the temptation is removed. Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Hi Stan I bought one for my '2 although really just so I have one rather than for using it. I got it from a guy who deals in sidescreen bits - I will try to find his details and let you have them. Having said that - I imagine shipping would be expensive - it's pretty heavy. Cheers Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Hi Stan, there was a different starter handle for TR2/3 small mouth cars to TR3A/B's. The position of the bush along the shaft varied to suit the socket position in the nose. TR4 handles were different again. If chasing one on ebay you will need the cogged end to bush measurement for a TR3A handle to verify a correct item. Sorry I don't have it as I donated my starter handle to a concours rebuilder who couldn't find one anywhere. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Hi Stan, the TR starting handle was an unnecessary anachronism. The advent of 12v electrical systems, dynamos and the Bendix starter had rendered it more or less superfluous by the time car production restarted in the UK post-WW2. However, in Austerity England everything was on ration, including batteries, and a replacement battery when required might not be so easily or immediately available. The battery that wouldn't kick over the starter might nevertheless hold up for some while yet if the car was hand cranked - hence the retention of the starting handle. By the time TR2 production commenced, batteries were freely available once again, but presumably Standard Triumph (along with many other manufacturers) saw the starting handle as a customer requirement . . . . just in case. As previously observed, the main function of the starting handle was to disable the user's hand/wrist/arm/shoulder/jaw - and as such it was singularly effective. But hey, if you're hell bent on carrying on that fine old Uncle Sam tradition of learning the hard way, then be my guest ! Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted October 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Hi Stan, the TR starting handle was an unnecessary anachronism. The advent of 12v electrical systems, dynamos and the Bendix starter had rendered it more or less superfluous by the time car production restarted in the UK post-WW2. However, in Austerity England everything was on ration, including batteries, and a replacement battery when required might not be so easily or immediately available. The battery that wouldn't kick over the starter might nevertheless hold up for some while yet if the car was hand cranked - hence the retention of the starting handle. By the time TR2 production commenced, batteries were freely available once again, but presumably Standard Triumph (along with many other manufacturers) saw the starting handle as a customer requirement . . . . just in case. As previously observed, the main function of the starting handle was to disable the user's hand/wrist/arm/shoulder/jaw - and as such it was singularly effective. But hey, if you're hell bent on carrying on that fine old Uncle Sam tradition of learning the hard way, then be my guest ! Cheers, Alec Understood Alec and I should mention that my first cars were all hand crankable and I'm not totally unfamiliar with the procedure or the risks. I just want to have the full early TR experience - worm and peg steering, starter button, indicator on the center of the steering wheel, choke that wont stay engaged, turning the engine over with a starting handle.. Plus it would be useful when setting valve clearances... Thanks Viv for the info. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO RISK OF GETTING A BROKEN THUMB OR WRIST WITH A TR3A HAND CRANK. The engineers at S-T designed the far end of the hand crank with a cam-like slope and twin stepped tooth to engage the similar shape on the end of the engine crankshaft/pulley extension. When the engine starts, the cam slopes push the hand crank out towards the front of the car. The engine keeps running and your hand is holding the front end of the hand crank which is no longer engaged with the engine crankshaft to do any damage to your hand. With all your free health coverage in UK, why would any of you Brits be concerned about getting hurt. But I fully understand the HMO conditions that Foster would be subjected to (as well as the cost) if the hand crank were to damage his hand or wrist. Foster - It can't and it won't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbenajes Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 My TR3A didnt come with a starting handle and they are NLA so I will need to find a used one via the usual places. As I search, do all the TR's 2-4 use the same handle or do I need to narrow my search to something more specific ? Stan Well, after all the warnings and explanations, I am not sure whether I should come back to the original question of getting hold of a crank handle... I imagine that it would not be very difficult to adapt the type of handle that can be purchased new for some similar cars, like the MG TD (sorry for mentioning this brand here ). Jesús Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Pah, Tr Starting handle, Break your wrist PAH! try hand cranking a Howard Bantam cultivator. Bloody thing engages right at the end of the pulley, so when it starts the handle flies out breaks your wrist causing you then loose your grip whereupon it spins round again and in passing takes a lump out of your top lip or cheek bone with the dog gear, it spins round again and clips you on the back of the napper rendering you unconscious. The good side is that when you eventually wake up there is a beautiful view of the sky and you think you gone to heaven, thats just before the pain starts to kick in. That all pre-supposes that it does not vibrate, engage gear and run you over again doing you no end of harm. Best thing you can do with a starting handle is to get someone else to operate it whilst standing some distance away issuing instructions from afar. I found out the hard way with an older brother and father who thought it was a good idea to teach junior the rudiments of car mechanics, small hands, no sense, gullible, you starting to get my drift? If you ever want a Christams party game try this. Get a relation you are not that keen on, bet them that they can not gargle with Cider and eat 12 seeded grapes at the same time. The results are quite spectacular and once the sinus cavities drain and the pain stops they will thank you for the clear head that they now have as virtually every orifice vacates whatever it was designed to hold back. Very funny to watch but extremely unpleasent to experience. TR STARTING Handle PAH!!!! tool for pussies. Scotsmen eat girders, toss tree trunks around, wear a skirt, dance on top up large pointy swords and get away with it. Go to a Highland games and watch the Scots in action. We tweak the nose of pain, laugh in the face of "Heading the shot" and "Catching the javalin" Come on Alec back me up here! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 So much easier to set the valve clearances when one has a starting handle. I spent the winter of 1965 starting my TR2 on the handle - snow on the ground, me with only nine and half stones (133 pounds in American money!) sliding about, but it always started and never bit me! It saved the cost of a new battery until I had saved up. Happy days! Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) .......I spent the winter of 1965 starting my TR2 on the handle......... All winter Ian? - you must have been using the wrong technique! Cheers Andrew PS - great to see you and 4VC on John Clancy's new TR DVD, an excellent watch and a must have for any TR nut! Edited October 28, 2010 by Andrew Smith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M. Pied Lourd Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Stan, If you are still looking for one, let me know as I think that one came with my car. Since I have a new aluminum rad, it would never get used anyway. I am also alot closer to you.... Cheers, Tush Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Aye Rod laddie, you're not far wrong, the Culloden tradition is alive and well and still banging heads against walls. My forebears were Border Reivers, more sense than get involved with daft beggars in skirts and no knickers . . . Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McIver Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 YES DON, THERE IS THE SAME RISK OF THE CRANK HANDLE DISLOCATING OR BREAKING THE THUMB AND/OR SPRAINING THE WRIST WHEN CRANKING A TR AS WITH ANY OTHER ENGINE. As you have stated, hand damage is not likely to occur if the engine starts correctly. The risk is when the engine kicks back if the spark is advanced and the cranking action is too slow. The correct technique is not to wind the handle as if it is a starter motor, but rather to give a sharp pull up against compression. With full carburettor bowls and choke, any standard TR engine should fire by the third compression if in a good state of tune. As previously mentioned, it is a must to cup the handle in the right hand, that is, to wrap the fingers around the handle and lay the thumb across the index finger. If done this way, there is minimal risk of any damage to the hand or any other body part. Unfortunately, I cannot prove this with my current car as I have neither handle nor radiator hole. But I do recall having to crank the 3a on occasions in the 60's and how easy it was to set the tappets using the handle. Regards, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Bazzano Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 I have never had to use my crank to start my TR2 but I have started Allis Chalmers tractors that way many, many times. The method John describes is absolutely correct. Do not wrap that thumb!!! If the engine kicks back, and they do so often, the handle will just pop out of your hand. Have yet to have broken anything, but attention to what you're doing is the key. And don't forget to make sure your in neutral. And yes my handle has been used often, but just for timing and valve adjustment purposes. Very handy! Never thought to just try and start the old girl with the crank, maybe I should give her a go as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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